DocKeule Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 It does not work because the cannon does not have a regular wound-profile. The same way all buffs that would let you re-role or influence attack- or wound-rolls like "more and more warppower" or "volley fire" don't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) Ok, basiccally it works on weapon teams , stormfiends, and acolyte?:) Edited March 2, 2021 by Tizianolol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) And the engineers and bombardiers themselves if not enough other skryre units are in range. Edited March 2, 2021 by DocKeule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Tizianolol said: Ok, basiccally it works on weapon teams , stormfiends, and acolyte?:) It works on rattling guns, Stormfiends, Doomwheels, Walrock bombardiers and engineers and Acolytes in the shooting phase. basically anything that doesn’t use an mortal wounds output instead of damage Edited March 2, 2021 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Ok thx a lot. What do you think about doomwheel? I got a competitive tts tournament and i wanna try skaven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The verdict is that Doomwheels are AWESOME! Definitely use it as a shooty unit, not an assault unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 This list is something I want to give a try. Probably terribad but seems super fun and ridiculous: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said: This list is something I want to give a try. Probably terribad but seems super fun and ridiculous: Sure why not, go for it😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 17 hours ago, Tizianolol said: Ok thx a lot. What do you think about doomwheel? I got a competitive tts tournament and i wanna try skaven! They are the clear definition of chaos! you basically have to take them, especially if you combine them with the vial of the fulminator artifact. It makes them the fastest unit in the whole game. after all there aren’t many units if at all out there, that have a chance to move 48 inches ps: use your doomwheel as a character sniper, or a destroyer of heavy damage dealing glass-canons, for example flamers of tzeentch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Spoiler 4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said: This list is something I want to give a try. Probably terribad but seems super fun and ridiculous: I'd say your list lacks battleline units. Stormfiends are only battleline when all other units are Skryre (except the Masterclan general), One-Eyed Grunnock is no Skryre unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 1:21 AM, Drib said: Reveal hidden contents I'd say your list lacks battleline units. Stormfiends are only battleline when all other units are Skryre (except the Masterclan general), One-Eyed Grunnock is no Skryre unit. Hmmmm, that's a good point. I'll have to check if Skaven can take the Mercernaries (the Megagargants aren't normal allies, kinda like Gotrek, where you can exceed the allies point limit but have no other allies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) Well, I think I've had enough of a break away from AoS and with Nashcon currently a go for this year and with NOVA making an announcement in a couple weeks... I figure it's time to get back into practice with a group of locals (maybe some TTS but I've mostly been burnt out on it) that are ready to play comp again. Now of course we may be looking at AoS 3.0 before Fall when these tournaments take place, but for now these are 2 lists I'm looking at running and polishing:Balance Spoiler Allegiance: Skaventide Leaders Arch-Warlock (160) - General - Command Trait: Deranged Inventor - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200) - Artefact: Liber Bubonicus Battleline 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade Units 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Woe-stave 20 x Skryre Acolytes (200) Artillery Warplock Jezzails (420) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Extra Command Point (50) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 190 12 Fiends Spoiler Allegiance: Skaventide Leaders Warlock Bombardier (120) - General - Command Trait: Deranged Inventor - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Bombardier (120) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Battleline 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade Units 6 x Stormfiends (520) - 2x Windlaunchers - 2x Ratling Cannons - 2x Shock Gauntlets 6 x Stormfiends (520) - 2x Windlaunchers - 2x Ratling Cannons - 2x Shock Gauntlets Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Bell of Doom (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 175 Edited March 5, 2021 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I think with the first list you will run into problems with your staying-power. 40 monks can still produce a lot of hits (although a lot less than before the warscroll-change) but if they get attacked you burn through a block of 40 in one or two turns easily. And after that you have little to do any damage. Same withe the acolytes. I if they get charged they will probably will be wiped out instantly. For the second list you would have to cut the second command trait. Other than that...for me my six stormfiends have been my MVPs in most games. But the warpstone buff (+1 damage) was as important if not more than the re-rolls for the output especially with the ratling cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, DocKeule said: I think with the first list you will run into problems with your staying-power. 40 monks can still produce a lot of hits (although a lot less than before the warscroll-change) but if they get attacked you burn through a block of 40 in one or two turns easily. And after that you have little to do any damage. Same withe the acolytes. I if they get charged they will probably will be wiped out instantly. For the second list you would have to cut the second command trait. Other than that...for me my six stormfiends have been my MVPs in most games. But the warpstone buff (+1 damage) was as important if not more than the re-rolls for the output especially with the ratling cannons. Staying power? All of Skaven is made of paper and 6 Stormfiends and 40 Stormvermin will be wiped off just as easily as 40 Monks and 20 Acolytes.. you don't allow them to get charged to circumvent that fault. What exactly would you propose instead? In all my 4 years of playing Skaven competitively they are a glass cannon and currently the glass part is more prevalent in todays meta while the cannon part has became smaller and smaller by comparison to what other armies can throw out. For 2, that was just a list building mistake... I know I can't have 2 command traits and was simply from me duplicating the first one in WSB. It's been changed. Stormfiends will do literally nothing without buffs, yes. Getting the +1 is simple so long as that Bombardier is alive but the RR's are what really elevate them since they're paperweights without it. The 2nd list allows you to be more aggressive as you have 2 units and charging them into something isn't bad either. Fully buffed with shooting + charging and you're looking at 60-75 wounds vs a 4+ save on average. Gnawholes are a valuable tool that I think a large portion of Skaven players don't properly utilize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Gwendar said: Staying power? All of Skaven is made of paper and 6 Stormfiends and 40 Stormvermin will be wiped off just as easily as 40 Monks and 20 Acolytes.. you don't allow them to get charged to circumvent that fault. What exactly would you propose instead? Yeah. And I think plague monks right now are not much more than a meatshield plus. Personally I am thinking about moving away from big blobs. A ten-monk unit or twenty clanrats are often gone just about as quick as a block of 40. So more smaller units might help screen the damage dealers a little longer if the opponent has to take them out one after the other. I think I would swap them for six stormfiends to give the arch warlock something to work with. 2 hours ago, Gwendar said: In all my 4 years of playing Skaven competitively they are a glass cannon and currently the glass part is more prevalent in todays meta while the cannon part has became smaller and smaller by comparison to what other armies can throw out. Agreed. The shooting is doing alright but they need a melee-hammer and another point reduction for the meat shields or maybe a general "feel no pain" battalion or something of that nature. 2 hours ago, Gwendar said: Gnawholes are a valuable tool that I think a large portion of Skaven players don't properly utilize. In my games they mostly serve the purpose of forcing my opponent to a unit there on guard duty. The chance to use them for transportation came up a few times but rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, DocKeule said: Yeah. And I think plague monks right now are not much more than a meatshield plus. Personally I am thinking about moving away from big blobs. A ten-monk unit or twenty clanrats are often gone just about as quick as a block of 40. So more smaller units might help screen the damage dealers a little longer if the opponent has to take them out one after the other. I think I would swap them for six stormfiends to give the arch warlock something to work with. Agreed. The shooting is doing alright but they need a melee-hammer and another point reduction for the meat shields or maybe a general "feel no pain" battalion or something of that nature. In my games they mostly serve the purpose of forcing my opponent to a unit there on guard duty. The chance to use them for transportation came up a few times but rarely. I would disagree, especially with a Plague Furnace supporting them. If they get RR wounds and charge in they're easily pulling out ~30 wounds and that Furnace with Liber is deceptively strong in it's MW output at close range; that's the power pair. Your hammers need to be in 30-40 man blobs for the +'s to hit and wound. The only time less than that has really worked has been 20 SV and I'd rather take 40 Clanrats for the same price every single time because objectives. I've ran 6 SF lists for a long time now and it's still an option.. but ultimately I'm looking elsewhere for the time being. Skaven melee is in a decent enough spot but yes it's quite clearly fell behind since the game itself has changed. The point costs for things like Stormvermin and Ogres do not match up to more recent units with better\similar profiles. I would highly doubt Clanrats will get another reduction considering they're one of the best battleline units in the game and that's all thanks to Retreat + Charge. Ultimately even GW doesn't seem to understand what they want to do with the game since every tome has about a 50% chance of being written narratively or with competitive unit choices in mind. It's going to depend on the list you're running, but in the case of 12 Fiends you absolutely can use the in a punishing way. I've done it and had it done to me plenty of times. You apply pressure to multiple areas at once and they have to start making difficult decisions and that's the strength of the Gnawholes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahriman Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) Hey guys, I'm looking for opinions on how 'worth it' Battalions are, specifically with my Moulder army in mind. I've got the option to drop the Fleshmeld Menagerie from my list, alongside a unit of Giant Rats, for a 3rd Hell Pit Abomination. Current list: Spoiler Master Moulder with Supreme Creation and Foulhide Master Moulder with Rabid Crown Master Moulder (in Battalion) 3 x 4 Rat Ogors 6 x 10 Giant Rats 2 x Hell Pit Abominations 2 x 5 Wolf Rats Fleshmeld Menagerie Potential new list: Spoiler Master Moulder with Moulder Supreme and Rabin Crown Master Moulder Master Moulder 3 x 4 Rat Ogors 5 x 10 Giant Rats 3 x Hell Pit Abominations 2 x 5 Wolf Rats So Hell Pits are a big workhouse for dealing damage in my army, not to mention drawing an awful lot of heat off of my Rat Ogors so they make it to combat! So having an extra one would be amazing. Buuuut, is it worth losing out on dropping my army in 5 drops rather than 16? Losing out on the extra Relic? Losing the extra CP (which I tend to use if one of my units gets wiped out first turn so I can try and resummon them), one of my screening/objective grabbing units, aaaand losing the ability to resummon on a 4+ rather than a 5+ (while that hero is alive any), which has definitely been the difference between getting a 200pts unit back in a game and not quite a few times. So, if you have any thoughts whether there's a clear better way to go, I'd love to hear it. Pic for the sake of it Edited March 6, 2021 by Ahriman Typo 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Hey there to all Skaven players! I got a question for you. While not a Skaven player myself, I've been wondering one thing about Clanrats. Stat wise they look like the best chaff battleline in the game. When they have 40 models, they can have 4+/3+ attacks with their 2 reach spears, 5+ save and 12 bravery. And all that objective control power is only 200 points, which is, well, crazy. And all that without any buff investments. Sure, the more models you lose, the worse Clanrats stats will become, and if your opponent kills 21 Clanrats and you roll 5 or 6 on the battleshock, you will lose all 40. But so what? Your opponent just wasted a lot of his firepower on 5+ save to remove 200 gold from the table. That's like 25 Sisters of the watch shooting at your chaff (400 gold worth of the one of the best ranged firepower in the game). AND even then you can still do Inspiring Presense, if you really want to deny your opponent objective control his turn. So my question is this - is there a reason why Skaven players just don't go for a moving wall of 200 clanrats, flood objectives with models and simply win because their opponent can't kill all of them in time? I mean, sure, 200 clanrats cost almost 400$ and a huuuge time investment, but I'd bet it won't stop meta players from buying a lot of them from second hand. That's 5 units, 4 of them can dominate objectives, while 1 can congaline screen your backline in case of deepstrike threat. And your backline can be... Well, anything really. You still have 1000 gold for Warp Lightning Cannons, Ratling Guns, Stormfiends, anything that deals good damage (preferably ranged I'd guess). If your opponent rushes your backline, you win on objectives control, if your opponent focuses on your frontline, you just kill him with backline focus fire instead. Do I miss something here? Edited March 7, 2021 by Zeblasky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Zeblasky said: my question is this - is there a reason why Skaven players just don't go for a moving wall of 200 clanrats, I don’t know, I’m constantly using 200++ meatshields in my army.😜 I think it is probably the amount of chaff that has to be painted, which is probably the reason why many skavenplayers would rather use 60-100max. as for the title of best chaff unit I guess that goes to skinks currently. they are sadly just in every way better and can be buffed to oblivion, l and that for not much more then what clanrats currently cost. but it is true they are a great chaff unit. 3 hours ago, Zeblasky said: backline can be... Well, anything really. You still have 1000 gold for Warp Lightning Cannons, Ratling Guns, Stormfiends, anything that deals good damage (preferably ranged I'd guess). If your opponent rushes your backline, you win on objectives control, if your opponent focuses on your frontline, you just kill him with backline focus fire instead. The opponent usually tries to take down your well damage dealers. which usually is everything else then clanrats, and Doomwheels (which is kinda weird) . but that isn’t a problem, in the end if you opponent just focuses on your cannons stormfiends and so on, they’ll have some huge problems in dealing with the rest of your 200models, considering that you’ll have most of your chaff on objective for the rest of the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I didn't go horde Skaven for exactly the reason I don't want to paint 200+ Clanrats. I would certainly use movement trays for deployment and at least the first turn or two of movement, etc. I would also groan and berate an opponent who has a horde like that and didn't use movement trays (had a guy at a tournament taking a half hour to set his army up one time, absolutely stupid). But I agree, that many bodies is crazy good. Should really be a couple more missions not dependent on model count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 So I made two lists, that I am actually kinda interested in using in future real live event. the first is a bit more fun since it has the most- best unit in the game “the doomwheel” (and 200clanrats) my second list basically consists of the best although still overpriced units in our army. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Guys anyone know if I can I use 1 spark in hero phase and 1 in shooting phase? Or I can use only 1 ? Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocKeule Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 You can use one per phase so yes, you can use one in the hero-phase to improve your casting, one in the shooting phase to buff three missile-units and one in the combat phase to buff the heroe's melee profile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 22 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: So I made two lists, that I am actually kinda interested in using in future real live event. the first is a bit more fun since it has the most- best unit in the game “the doomwheel” (and 200clanrats) my second list basically consists of the best although still overpriced units in our army. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! And get an extra Doomwheel in there, you get to take 4 Behemoths, so you must take 4!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! And get an extra Doomwheel in there, you get to take 4 Behemoths, so you must take 4!! Don’t worry mate it’ll happen soon. Soon I tell ya! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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