AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[Dankboss]

Retreat and charge is absolutely nuts for Rockguts holy

Did you get your copy early?

[Dankboss]

You round up the number of models regained from the loonshrine, right? Because then 3 man trogg units sound more appealing, as you'd get 2 back.

Edit:

Holdup, does it specify battline Troggoths? Because 3 Dankolds returning 2 just got interesting.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dankboss

[Sauriv]

Hmm i'm concerned about the requirements of 3 dankholds, that's 570p that you want to spend on big trogg units instead which you might return.  [Wrong on my part, misread]

Retreat and shoot is only really useful for fellwater, cuz rockgut shooting is an ability. Fellwaters' have a short range shooting of 6" so after a retreat they will at most reach the unit just beside the first fight. 

Retreat and charge is very nice but our troggs are slow and you can't run-retreat" and later charge. This gives you a total of 6" to reposition and you have to be outside of combat. So i feel that retreat and charge another unit will be hard. BUT this ability enable us some neat tricks against the unit we are fighting! Say that only a few of your models can fight (due to range) because the enemy just tagged your unit in the flank, usually we only have the 3" pile to get more models in range, now you can retreat and make a broader front and charge again. This enables us to manage bigger units with more ease, which in this case have a chance of returning. 

I believe the return mechanic is rounded to our advantage so 3 would return 2 and the one I'm more curious about 9 that return 5. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Sauriv

[ShaneHobbes]

1 minute ago, Sauriv said:

Hmm im concerned about the requirements of 3 dankholds, that's 570p that you want to spend on big trogg units instead which you might return. 

Retreat and shoot is only really useful for fellwater, cuz rockgut shooting is an ability. Fellwaters' have a short range shooting of 6" so after a retreat they will at most reach the unit just beside the first fight. 

Retreat and charge is very nice but our troggs are slow and you can't run-retreat" and later charge. This gives you a total of 6" to reposition and you have to be outside of combat. So i feel that retreat and charge another unit will be hard. BUT this ability enable us some neat tricks against the unit we are fighting! Say that only a few of your models can fight (due to range) because the enemy just tagged your unit in the flank, usually we only have the 3" pile to get more models in range, now you can retreat and make a broader front and charge again. This enables us to manage bigger units with more ease, which in this case have a chance of returning. 

I believe the return mechanic is rounded to our advantage so 3 would return 2 and the one I'm more curious about 9 that return 5. 

I'm pretty sure it meant 3-9 of the three trog types in any combination, not 3 dankholds. That would be horrible

[Nezzhil]

17 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

You round up the number of models regained from the loonshrine, right? Because then 3 man trogg units sound more appealing, as you'd get 2 back.

Edit:

Holdup, does it specify battline Troggoths? Because 3 Dankolds returning 2 just got interesting.

Only Rockgut and Fellwater. The Dankhold only gets the +1 regeneration and the battalion ability.

Of course, the Hag is outside for all the rules...  She only can get the artifact and the trait if she is the general.

[Sauriv]

7 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

I'm pretty sure it meant 3-9 of the three trog types in any combination, not 3 dankholds. That would be horrible

Ok nice, i read that wrongly 👍 then this is is very nice 👍 😁 

[ShaneHobbes]

1 minute ago, Sauriv said:

Ok nice, i read that wrongly 👍 then this is is very nice 👍 😁 

No problem! Honestly I'm not too impressed by the battalion but it is 20 pts cheaper than our only other alternative if we want a low drop count us another artifact so there's that.

 

[Dankboss]

Retreat and charge is among the most powerful abilities in the game

[ShaneHobbes]

6 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Retreat and charge is among the most powerful abilities in the game

I'd love it for my Ironjawz but I've never been in any situation with Trogs where I wished I could do that. Ill have to play with it I guess.

Usually my trogs are surrounded by skinks and have no where to retreat anyway

[ShaneHobbes]

16 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

Only Rockgut and Fellwater. The Dankhold only gets the +1 regeneration and the battalion ability.

Of course, the Hag is outside for all the rules...  She only can get the artifact and the trait if she is the general.

The lack of attention for the Hag in anything Gloomspite related really grinds my gears. I love the model but its such a point sink

[Scythian]

I thought we were getting realm specific abilities as well?

[Charlo]

1 hour ago, ShaneHobbes said:

The lack of attention for the Hag in anything Gloomspite related really grinds my gears. I love the model but its such a point sink

I guess you just have to be 2 drop if going full trogg then

[Dankboss]

After giving some thought on the new abilities, here's what I think:

Monstrous Regeneration: Cool? I guess.

Oblivious to Sorcery: Matchup dependent but you'll be thankful you have it against spell doms, especially in this prevailing meta.

Command Trait: It takes the sting off the loss of Loonskin, as does the +1 to regen. You get half of what it was offering, but isn't on a timer at least. A fair tradeoff for the new rules.

Artifact: At first glance it's junk, however, it is something the Troggboss needed, or potentially better, the Trogg Hag. Assuming you're taking the battalion, it's fine and I'll likely take it. That way both your big trogg heroes can have ward saves of some kind. Does mean I need to reconsider Moonface Mommet. It's easy to overlook a 5+ against just mortals, but really not that many units actually get that, and in a world of mortal wound spam, I think it's worth a look.

Loonshrine: this is great; at minimum, you're statistically getting 200  or so points back a game (example being 2 units of 3 Fellwaters, each returning 2) or a lot more if used for big units. Of course, it's on a 4+ so sometimes it might not happen, but at the same time it might happen every time. This is quite a powerful ability when it goes off, especially in the late game when 3+ Rockguts come back when you need them. It does mean you can take bigger risks.

Battalion: this allows us to feasibly aim for an easy 4 drop (mine is 5 drop) which nets a decent chance at dictating the first turn. Obviously, you can push this lower but I wouldn't. Retreat and charge is a rule that wins games, straight up. The ability to not get bogged down and slingshot over to objectives shouldn't be ignored, as a lot of ground can be covered quickly over 2 turns. 160 is a fair price for such a good ability.

 

Overall, this is a straight buff; the only thing we're really losing is Loonskin, and as I said, the new traits mitigate this somewhat. Now, this isn't suddenly a competitive army, however there is room to net some wins against the current meta, and a good Trogg player can win often enough anyway. Does it bump them up a whole tier? Probably not, but it does move them up in regards to other armies of equal tier, at least, from my own analysis.

[Pitloze]

I tried making a Hag list with the new stuff. I used Jaws of Mork to mimic the Trogg stuff. And skullmob was also 160 points so I used that.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Syari Screamersquig
Dankhold Troggboss (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Envoy of the Overbounder
- Artefact: Shiny Wotnot

Battleline
12 x Rockgut Troggoths (560)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (300)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (300)

Battalions
Skulkmob Horde (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

Is this feasible? The Hag takes up a LOT of points. But it's such a cool model I really want to field it.

[Dankboss]

1 minute ago, Pitloze said:

I tried making a Hag list with the new stuff. I used Jaws of Mork to mimic the Trogg stuff. And skullmob was also 160 points so I used that.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Syari Screamersquig
Dankhold Troggboss (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Envoy of the Overbounder
- Artefact: Shiny Wotnot

Battleline
12 x Rockgut Troggoths (560)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (300)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (300)

Battalions
Skulkmob Horde (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

Is this feasible? The Hag takes up a LOT of points. But it's such a cool model I really want to field it.

Since they're a one drop, I'd split the Fellwaters up into 3s, that way you get 2 Fellwaters back on a 4+ per unit. You also have very few units, so more ground covered is probably a good idea.

[Pitloze]

2 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Since they're a one drop, I'd split the Fellwaters up into 3s, that way you get 2 Fellwaters back on a 4+ per unit. You also have very few units, so more ground covered is probably a good idea.

That makes sense. Would groups of 9 rockguts also be better then? Any other way to incorporate the Hag in a decent list?

[Dankboss]

16 minutes ago, Pitloze said:

That makes sense. Would groups of 9 rockguts also be better then? Any other way to incorporate the Hag in a decent list?

12 sounds unwieldy, but then you'd be left with just 3 on their own if you reduced it. The Hag is okay, but requires space in the list building to account for other things first, like screens.

However, as pointed out in the Gloomspite thread, the Hag is a legitimate target for Hidden Troggholes, so can come back on a 4+

[BrocknerTheBear]

@Pitloze I'd run either two 9's of rockgut and two 3's of fellwater 

Or

Three units of 6 rockgut and two units of 3 fellwater

[Charlo]

1 hour ago, Dankboss said:

After giving some thought on the new abilities, here's what I think:
Command Trait: It takes the sting off the loss of Loonskin, as does the +1 to regen. You get half of what it was offering, but isn't on a timer at least. A fair tradeoff for the new rules.

Just to note, you get the Badmoon and all those allegiance abilities too.

The trogg stuff is in *addition*

[Pitloze]

21 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

12 sounds unwieldy, but then you'd be left with just 3 on their own if you reduced it. The Hag is okay, but requires space in the list building to account for other things first, like screens.

However, as pointed out in the Gloomspite thread, the Hag is a legitimate target for Hidden Troggholes, so can come back on a 4+

What? The Hag can be resurrected?

[Dankboss]

Just now, Pitloze said:

What? The Hag can be resurrected?

Technically.

[Pitloze]

1 minute ago, Dankboss said:

Technically.

Hmmm RAW is half the unit's number rounding up? But Loonshrine always had that rule right? Why hasn't it come up before?

[Dankboss]

Just now, Pitloze said:

Hmmm RAW is half the unit's number rounding up? But Loonshrine always had that rule right? Why hasn't it come up before?

Because it never could resurrect single models before, however, it is legal to have a unit of 1 Rockgut Troggoth for 140 points, so technically, it would work then as well.

[Pitloze]

4 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Because it never could resurrect single models before, however, it is legal to have a unit of 1 Rockgut Troggoth for 140 points, so technically, it would work then as well.

Hmmm. I worry this will get FAQed into oblivion lol. She already got FAQed once.

[Dankboss]

1 minute ago, Pitloze said:

Hmmm. I worry this will get FAQed into oblivion lol. She already got FAQed once.

I'm not sure it actually will, seeing as it's WD. I've not heard of it being done before for a tome celestial.

However, I'm not going to pretend like this is legit. I will defend Oblivious to Sorcery as that's reasonable.