AoS 2 - Phoenix Temple Discussion

[Bigscaryflorister]

Phoenix temple is listed, along with Eldritch Council, so the only thing not affected by hallowheart is the branchwych!

[Bigscaryflorister]

I think you can use temple allegiance with firestorm abilities, as they are in addition to the order allegiance abilities, and temple use those, obviously!

[Thiagoma]

Yes, but sadly you must use battlelines that serves Order, "no battlelines if".

So you would need liberators or such, not beeing able to field Swordmasters or PG as battlelines.

If it was possible i would be incredibly happy.

 

There is a huge discussion on the boards about it, you sohlud check it out.

[Bigscaryflorister]

Nooooo... that’s a bit ******. Any chance you could post a link?

[Beliman]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:25 PM, Thiagoma said:

Yes, but sadly you must use battlelines that serves Order, "no battlelines if".

I'm not sure about that. To use any Firestorm Abilities, you need to use GA Abilities first (and of course, have the GA keyword). That's the only requirement.

Any Allegiance can use GA Abilities if they don't have their own (from FAQs, if your Allegiance have some unique Abilities, you MUST use them). But this doesn't affect Phoenix Temple so...

So, imho, Phoenix Temple should pick GA: Order Abilities +Firestorm even if they use their own Allegiance to build their list (allies and "battleline if..."). 

[Thiagoma]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm not sure about that. To use any Firestorm Abilities, you need to use GA Abilities first (and of course, have the GA keyword). That's the only requirement.

Any Allegiance can use GA Abilities if they don't have their own (from FAQs, if your Allegiance have some unique Abilities, you MUST use them). But this doesn't affect Phoenix Temple so...

So, imho, Phoenix Temple should pick GA: Order Abilities +Firestorm even if they use their own Allegiance to build their list (allies and "battleline if..."). 

That is correct. If you go Phoenix Temple you may use Firestorm traits, but then your army would be Phoenix Temple.  Unfortunelly that would be the only way to have Phoenix Guard as BL.

But in that case, everything else would count as ally.

[Jagged Red Lines]

Any predictions for the GHB and beyond? I'm wrapping up my Khorne and and now torn between starting a Phoenix Temple or Fyreslayers army.

Doesn't seem like there are expanded rules for PT in the new book, as per the Warhammer Community preview. Do you think they're setting them up for getting wrapped into Tyrion/Teclis aelves?

[Thiagoma]

I think they will join the new Aelves, that said:

 

"This year’s General’s Handbook also contains allegiance abilities for several factions, with expanded rules for Ironjawz, Seraphon, Wanderers, Darkling Covens, Free Peoples, Slaves to Darkness and Dispossessed. If you’re looking to make the most of these forces in your games, the book is a must-have."

 

Maaaaaybe one of the "several factions"?

[Enochi]

Well gentlemen and Ladies. Phoenix temple got hosed once again with Frosthearts getting a 40 point increase. Flamespyre got a 20 point decrease... and ones without riders are at there pre-AOS 2.0 points.

With that and Dragonlords going up +40 points I think I'm pretty much done with AoS until they come out with a tome for aelves. 

[Thiagoma]

1 hour ago, Enochi said:

Well gentlemen and Ladies. Phoenix temple got hosed once again with Frosthearts getting a 40 point increase. Flamespyre got a 20 point decrease... and ones without riders are at there pre-AOS 2.0 points.

With that and Dragonlords going up +40 points I think I'm pretty much done with AoS until they come out with a tome for aelves. 

Same feeling. Been an uphill battle but i am done. All we had was good warscrolls. Now we cant compete anymore even at lower tiers.

[sorokyl]

Hey guys.  I have (what I think is) an excellent idea of using a Flamespyre Phoenix miniature for a custom counts-as-Magmadroth with a Runeson rider. 

I came here since you guys are probably the experts on Phoenix's. I figure one of you may even have a Magmadroth laying around. 

Does this seem like a feasible conversion? I could probably put him on there bareback, or use part/all of the chimney saddle but i think perhaps that is too large to look right on the bird. 

I have never seen the bird in person so any suggestions/ideas appreciated. thanks! 

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, sorokyl said:

Hey guys.  I have (what I think is) an excellent idea of using a Flamespyre Phoenix miniature for a custom counts-as-Magmadroth with a Runeson rider. 

I came here since you guys are probably the experts on Phoenix's. I figure one of you may even have a Magmadroth laying around. 

Does this seem like a feasible conversion? I could probably put him on there bareback, or use part/all of the chimney saddle but i think perhaps that is too large to look right on the bird. 

I have never seen the bird in person so any suggestions/ideas appreciated. thanks! 

I’ll take a photo of the two side by side later, but off the top of my head the rider might fit ok but the magmadroth saddle might be a bit tall.

[Azamar]

For @sorokyl: here’s the Phoenix and magmadroth side by side, and a picture with a spare runeson on top. The back of the throne on the Phoenix is actually a similar height to the stone brazier in the magmadroth, although due to the more bulky shape it may still look a little unbalanced. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Azamar

[sorokyl]

53 minutes ago, Azamar said:

For @sorokyl: here’s the Phoenix and magmadroth side by side, and a picture with a spare runeson on top. The back of the throne on the Phoenix is actually a similar height to the stone brazier in the magmadroth, although due to the more bulky shape it may still look a little unbalanced. 



Thanks so much! Beautifully painted miniatures, BTW. 

[sorokyl]

well it turned out pretty good i think. If you guys don't get a tome soon can always convert your army to fyreslayers =) 

[Raffonerd]

Hi guys,

I'd like to anticipate our best player CT by posting an updated version of his list:

Allegiance: Phoenix Temple - Mortal Realm: Ulgu
LEADERS
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Strategic Genius
- Artefact : Doppelganger Cloak
Anointed (80)
- Artefact : Betrayer's Crown
Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal (340)
- Allies

UNITS
30 x Phoenix Guard (360)
10 x Phoenix Guard (140)
10 x Phoenix Guard (140)

BEHEMOTHS
Frostheart Phoenix (240)
Frostheart Phoenix (240)

BATTALIONS
Spyreheart Warhost (130)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 101
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 340/400

[samkrow76]

On 7/3/2019 at 2:41 AM, Raffonerd said:

Hi guys,

I'd like to anticipate our best player CT by posting an updated version of his list:

Allegiance: Phoenix Temple - Mortal Realm: Ulgu
LEADERS
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Strategic Genius
- Artefact : Doppelganger Cloak
Anointed (80)
- Artefact : Betrayer's Crown
Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal (340)
- Allies

UNITS
30 x Phoenix Guard (360)
10 x Phoenix Guard (140)
10 x Phoenix Guard (140)

BEHEMOTHS
Frostheart Phoenix (240)
Frostheart Phoenix (240)

BATTALIONS
Spyreheart Warhost (130)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 101
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 340/400

Hello,  just asking as very new player to PT, but why take the phoenix without riders? Is the battalion THAT good? I thought it only does d3 dmg once per turn. 

Thank you

[Thiagoma]

11 minutes ago, samkrow76 said:

Hello,  just asking as very new player to PT, but why take the phoenix without riders? Is the battalion THAT good? I thought it only does d3 dmg once per turn. 

Thank you

Imo it is pretty bad since you lose a bunch off anointed attacks and witness to destiny.

[samkrow76]

I mean, yeah that is what I was thinking, with Witness and the Blizzard aura you have a super defensive troop, park them behind a line of guard, they have a 2" attack and can kick ass over the heads of the PG, higher damage output with the Anointed and then the command ability to rr wounds, and ignore battleshock... seems like too much to give up to NOT have an anointed on top, but maybe I am missing something? 

[Raffonerd]

Battalion still counts for 4 less drop, 1 item, 1 cp. 

Plus 320 for phoenix is to much in this type of list. Why? Becasue you don’t have magic support and you don’t have such a low amount of drops that can ensure you to have you ts buffed up.

The main tactic that you can follow atm is to spam PGs. Maybe, drop Aventis, go for 2 fire phoenix (fire phoenix at least can respawn and relocate free, which means that the can move free and use battalion ability) without anoited and 1 anoited on frost phoenix (with a tanky item/shot or cac). Remeber that Anoited itself has a low damage output for 80 point, so you should have only 2 of them near your 3 units (80 points are 8 PGs). Then spam PG sas much as you can inside your 3 units. (Stay around 4 drops).

You should wait for Cities of Sigmar anyway.

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Maturin]

Hey guys,

I'd like to try playing a mixed rder list using PT as a basis, what do you think of this list ? I'll play against a  guy in my local GW, We'll be using Malign sorcery's battle plan called : MAGICAL SUPREMACY (the one where your wizards score VP when they successfully cast a spell near one of the two objectives).
My plan is to rush one side with everything in the wake of PG/Anointed on FROST, set up camp at one of the objec, then start Nuking around!

Allegiance: Order - Mortal Realm: Ghur

LEADERS
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)
Loremaster (140)
Archmage (100)
- Steed
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Defense
- Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm

UNITS
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
30 x Phoenix Guard (360)

WAR MACHINES
Steam Tank (240) 2D6"* 3+ 12 8
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
* See Warscroll
TOTAL: 2250/2250 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 116
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

[samkrow76]

Anyone else really excited for the Cities of Sigmar update to PT? I think a great alligance ability is just what the Dr ordered for this army. 

Very excited to see what happens. I recently just finished building my 90 Phoenix Guard and two Frostheart with Anointed. 

What would you say the greatest weakness of Phoenix Temple is? Shooting, magic? 

Thanks for the advice! 

 

[zilberfrid]

9 minutes ago, samkrow76 said:

Anyone else really excited for the Cities of Sigmar update to PT? I think a great alligance ability is just what the Dr ordered for this army. 

Very excited to see what happens. I recently just finished building my 90 Phoenix Guard and two Frostheart with Anointed. 

What would you say the greatest weakness of Phoenix Temple is? Shooting, magic? 

Thanks for the advice! 

I'd say the biggest weakness is lack of poofy pants and facial hair.

That's quite an imposing battle line you have there, but you'll probably want some ranged weapons. You could get Volley guns and rocket batteries, if you want to be really daring. Going for ranged troops is probably better.

[samkrow76]

Thanks @zilberfrid I am pretty new to playing Phoenix Temple and have only used them in a mixed order 3k mess-around match, but I am very excited to start.

I was thinking of dropping one of the 30 man units to 10 and taking more shooting/magic. I could keep and Anointed on foot and 10 PG back for defense and march forward with everything else and should be OK in most games, at least I think.