AoS 2 - Phoenix Temple Discussion

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Phoenix Temple. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Phoenix Temple in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (In this instance, my own Phoenix Temple blog is in the Painting & Modelling section as at present it hasn't been gaming focused, you can find that HERE). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/11304-lets-chat-phoenix-temple/?tab=comments#comment-124652

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey,

I should also note that I am especially invested in this one as the last army I've been working on in the current edition is Phoenix Temple and have only really played them in a campaign. So moving into the new edition I look forward to actually discussing lists as I plan to take the Phoenix Temple to a number of Tournaments over the next 6 months!

I'll post up some initial AoS 2 list ideas at the start of next week. In the mean time though, hopefully there will be some others out there who see the Phoenix Temple as more than just the Frostheart Phoenix jammed into other armies!

Chris

[Thalion]

This was my favourite unit on old warhammer fantasy, and still have enough models to make an army of them on AoS 2. Sadly, even if you theme everything arround them instead of just taking the frostheart, i dont think there is a way to make it competitive by its own, you need to add some stuff to it. 

Im thinking on a Phoenicium City theme, as in AoS lore the godbeasts exists, there might as well be a gigant godly one that aelves of old might take as their god, since the other incarnates are trapped on the past, more interested on extrating corrupted souls from slaneesh than looking over the rebirth of a new civilization, they turned to a greater patron and seek to stablish the realm of rebirth.

This way,  adding with wanderers for battleline and wizards, the lifesswamp thingy that allows you to bring back models on a big blob of phoenix guard plus a collegiate arcane giving back wounds to the phoenix, can make de ultimate anvil. Maybe some eldrich council help to add monsters and rerrolls and you have something defendable. 

I wish things were different, but for me, the expanded "dark aelves" direction that GW is taking with DoK, wanderers and DK alliageance rules, and ID, along with the fact that none of the old high elves faction can function by themselves alone, makes me think that the next aelves release will be light aelves of Tyrion and therefore, they are slowly extinguishing the remaining factions. 

[Azamar]

I’m also wondering whether to turn my scattering of Phoenix temple units into their own army. 

The points changes are a surprise. For the first time the frostheart  Phoenix actually costs what it is worth, but the poor flamespyre... 

and the Phoenix guard! I only have 30 at the moment and my local gaming group seem to be terrified of them. Apart from one or two players who have worked out how to counter them. Dropping another 20 points has not gone down well! 

Does anyone know if you can use the  firestorm city abilities with a Phoenix temple allegiance ( to have Phoenix guard as battleline) or are you restricted to only an order allegiance? 

The biggest question is what allies to take, as they seem to be a must to make up for a limited choice of units. I think sisters of the watch might be a good pairing, maybe with a spell weaver and/ or a nomad prince for buffs. Also tempted by a drakeseer, for some hitting power (and flames of the Phoenix, of course) although any of the Eldritch Council would be good choices- the more mages the better. 

[Double Misfire]

Truly awesome thread for one of the most awesome factions in AoS! While I'd never play Phoenix Temple (the only thing I hate more than aelves is having to paint aelves, discovered this with my foray into Swifthawk Agents) it's got me thinking outside the box about how to get the most out of them and I've stumbled onto a pretty weird concept.

Phoenix Guard don't have a lot going for them in the offensive department, not having any rend, but with their (and Annointed-mounted Phoenixes') 4+ save against (mortal) wounds they're very survivable and become incredibly survivable against one thing - endless spells. With this in mind I think as many allied wizards as possible casting as many predatory endless spells as possible, the logic being that it doesn't matter too much if your opponent gets to move them over your guys, you're still going to take half the casualties anyone else would.

 

I present for submission a 2000 point matched play list looking something like this:

Allegiance abilities: Order/Hallowheart (might as well stack those Archmage unbind bonuses )

Realm: Ghyran

• Frostheart with Annointed (280)
• Frostheart with Annointed (280) Greenglade Flask

 

 

• 30 Phoenix Guard (360)
• 10 Phoenix Guard (140)
• 10 Phoenix Guard (140)
• 10 Phoenix Guard (140)

 

• Knight Excelsior (140) 
• Archmage (100)
• Archmage (100)

 

• Everblaze Comet (100)
• Geminids of Ul-Gysh (40)
• Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
• Umbral Spellportal (60)
• Quicksilver Swords (20)
• Emerald Lifeswarm (60) Lifeswarm has a special place here, healing effectively healing two wounds for every one rolled on Phoenixes and Phoenix Guard

 

Thoughts?  

Edited June 29, 2018 by Double Misfire

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey,

<EDIT - Removed incorrect info re Firestorm>

I've also found the new ally cap a little restrictive as it's hard to get more than 2 units of allies unless you fancy spamming units of 10 Phoenix Guard.

I think the core of the list has to look something like this;

3 Anointed on Frostheart
Anointed

30 Phoenix Guard
2x 10 Phoenix Guard

And then ally in two wizard units. As we have spare points now I think going for more expensive Stormcast ones may be an idea as their added survivability is also nicely in keeping with the army. You'll also be able to afford Endless Spells and/or a bonus Command Point. There's also the potential to juggle things a little to squeeze that 4th Frostheart (I think).

I'll contribute some proper lists next week when I've mulled it over a bit more. Having picked up Soul Wars, I definitely plan to paint and base my Sacrosanct in the same scheme so will have some flexibility there.

[Azamar]

I didn’t think about the ally cap- that does make things difficult. 

I saw in the firestorm thread there’s been an faq on gig it works, so that’s great for Phoenix temple. 

At the moment I have 30 Phoenix guard, 2 anointed on foot, one flamespyre and one frostheart. I’ll probably hold on to the flamespyre in any list I come up with and just hope one day gw realise it’s actually worse than the frostheart! Might make fitting in a third Phoenix a little harder though. 

[jamierk]

So there is a points drop on PG when taken less than hoard? Nice!

 

What is the new restriction on allies mentioned above?

[Azamar]

5 hours ago, jamierk said:

So there is a points drop on PG when taken less than hoard? Nice!

 

What is the new restriction on allies mentioned above?

There’s a hoard points reduction as well- they’re now 140/360

the allies restriction is in the new core rules- 1 out of every 4 units can be allies. I’m not certain that’s in addition to the points limit, it may be the points limits replace the 1 in 4 in matched play. I’ll hopefully be getting hold of the ghb today. 

[jamierk]

Haha awesome! More Phoenix Guard!

 

So there is a points drop on PG when taken less than hoard? Nice!

 

What is the new restriction on allie

[Enochi]

If that's the new restriction on allies it sucks....alot. 

My plan is 

3 Anointed on Frostheart

2 x 30 Block of Phoenix guard 

1 x 10 Block of Phoenix guard

Allies:

Archmage

Branch Wytch

Branch Wytch

Endless spells

(If I'm limited to 2 allies then Ill probably take a unit of Sisters of the thorn and a Branchwytch.) 
 

[Thiagoma]

I am going with Sisters of the Thorn and a Loremaster as allies.

[Thiagoma]

Does the archmage bubble stack with Witness to Destiny?

What about artefacts that give save after save?

[Azamar]

34 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Does the archmage bubble stack with Witness to Destiny?

What about artefacts that give save after save?

Yes, as does master of defence. So if you take that, an archmage and ignax’s scales, it’s possible to have a Phoenix with 4+ 4+ 6+ 6+ every time it takes a mortal wound. 

Your opponent may throw a tape measure at you if you attempt that one though, so proceed with caution. 

[Thiagoma]

But doesnt that goes against the rules against stacking identical abilities and re rolling limitations?

 

Witness to destiny and Ignax for example have the exact same text.

[Azamar]

To my knowledge there’s no rule against stacking different abilities unless the wording of the abilities specifically says otherwise. Yes the abilities have similar wording, but there’s no reason you can’t use each ability in turn. They are not rerolls. 

Note ignax’s scales only work against mortals, not normal wounds, so it isn’t identical to witness to destiny.  

[Chris Tomlin]

17 hours ago, Azamar said:

Yes, as does master of defence. So if you take that, an archmage and ignax’s scales, it’s possible to have a Phoenix with 4+ 4+ 6+ 6+ every time it takes a mortal wound. 

Your opponent may throw a tape measure at you if you attempt that one though, so proceed with caution. 

This is correct.

...including the possible tape measure throwing bit!

[Thiagoma]

My 2k List:

Anoited on Flamespyre Phoenix (General)

-Master of Defense

-Ignax Scale

Anoited on Frostheart Phoenix

Anoited on Frostheart Phoenix

Loremaster (ally)

Phoenix Guard x20

Phoenix Guard x20

Phoenix Guard x10

Sisters of the Thorn (ally)

 

Wanted to depart a little from the Ice bird spam. Plan is to intimidate the enemy with a crazy durable fiery ****** while the other folks hold the objectives.

[Borjemann]

Anyone with a bit more experience playing Phoenix Temple, what are the preferred wizard allies? I'm thinking an Archmage on dragon or Aventis Firestrike would be decent picks.

[Thiagoma]

13 hours ago, Borjemann said:

Anyone with a bit more experience playing Phoenix Temple, what are the preferred wizard allies? I'm thinking an Archmage on dragon or Aventis Firestrike would be decent picks.

Loremaster,  Sisters of the Thorn,  Archmage, Archamge on Dragon,  Drakeseer are all viable options.

For the archmage on Dragon make sure to get the book for 2 spells/round.

[CanHammer-darren]

@Chris Tomlin how would you optimize your list post-facehammer? You had stated elsewhere that aventis was not optimal

[Gmburg]

Love these models. After getting more experience painting and just playing in general I would gladly jump into these guys.

[Rogue Sun]

Hey guys, kicking around the idea of starting a PT army and had a few questions:

Does a the Phoenix's Attuned to Magic rule work on saves beyond armor? i.e. Witness to destiny,  master of defense, etc.?

And same question regarding Sisters of the Thorn, can you re-roll failed Witness to Destiny rolls?

Thanks!

[CanHammer-darren]

Witness to Destiny is not a save so no I believe

[Dimmu Golrath]

Hi!

I played 4 games with this setup, won all 4. But it feels a bit boring. Not much variation around, I can't see anything that would it make more interesting to play. You've got some variations for me? If it helps gaining more strength it would be nice. Thinking about entering a tourney with this army.