AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Cmidrfti]

Anyone bought and built the Khainite Shadowstalkers yet? 

Got mine on the way along with Morgwaeth and her crew.

Wondering if there's been any math done on the builds yet or not.

[Lucentia]

For AoS there's no build math to consider really, they don't have weapon options or anything, it's just a case of if you want to run them as a 2x9 or 1x18 model unit and therefore how many unit champions you need.

If you're looking for the best builds for Warcry then you may be best asking in the Warcry subforum as I'm not too familiar.

[Cmidrfti]

Thanks @Lucentia Had totally overlooked that on the warscroll. On the plus side, one less whip to snap off when I get them built. 

I'm assuming the cursed missiles covers all the ranged options, repeater bows and the ring. 

Kinda glad I can go entirely rule of cool with them as I'm unlikely to use them for Warcry.

 

 

[Lucentia]

They all have little throwing darts/blades on their belts to represent the ranged attack too, but yes.

[Cmidrfti]

3 hours ago, Lucentia said:

They all have little throwing darts/blades on their belts to represent the ranged attack too, but yes.

I was kinda hoping for a little more granularity on the warscroll but it's going to make building way less of a head scratcher. 

They seem like a shoo-in for the points at the moment so calling that a massive win.

[Chumphammer]

On 1/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, Cmidrfti said:

Anyone bought and built the Khainite Shadowstalkers yet? 

Got mine on the way along with Morgwaeth and her crew.

Wondering if there's been any math done on the builds yet or not.

got 2 units built, just need to paint them...not painted in 3 months lol 

[Lord of the Isle]

Do Shadowstalkers work well as allies for non D o K?

[Lucentia]

They don't need DoK abilities to be valuable, so I'd think they'd be pretty useful, yes.  Though I don't think there's a huge number of factions which can ally with DoK.

[Gokken]

Anyone still uses  battalions? I often find bodies to be more useful

trying to modify my old cauldren guard with this.

I geuss Morathi would be the best add to this, but its the only model I don't have for DOK.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
Hag Queen (100)
Melusai Ironscale (140)

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
15 x Blood Sisters (420)

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130

Pros I can get a fast and big unit of melusai, with medusa as general

Both my general and the bloodsisters will be fast with ironscale.

Cons: a slaughter queen on cauldren can more easily survive shooting armies, with a thousand and one dark gift, rather than an 8 wounds medusa.

[Lord of the Isle]

2 hours ago, Lucentia said:

They don't need DoK abilities to be valuable, so I'd think they'd be pretty useful, yes.  Though I don't think there's a huge number of factions which can ally with DoK.

Cities and mixed Order both cool I think

[Chumphammer]

3 hours ago, Gokken said:

Anyone still uses  battalions? I often find bodies to be more useful

trying to modify my old cauldren guard with this.

I geuss Morathi would be the best add to this, but its the only model I don't have for DOK.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
Hag Queen (100)
Melusai Ironscale (140)

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
15 x Blood Sisters (420)

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130

Pros I can get a fast and big unit of melusai, with medusa as general

Both my general and the bloodsisters will be fast with ironscale.

Cons: a slaughter queen on cauldren can more easily survive shooting armies, with a thousand and one dark gift, rather than an 8 wounds medusa.

If running something like this, personal changes I would make are:

1: Drop 2nd unit of WE into 10. You have 2 witch brews and 1 MR so having 3 big units may not work so great to cover with buffs

2: Put the medusa on shrine. Having your general on small numbers of wounds make it an easy target in the current shooting meta

3: Id put the 2nd hag to Morgwaeths blade coven. gives you a mini combat unit and extra wounds for your hagqueen. (If not you can use those extra points for a command point  to be on 1970 again)

4: Put snakes to 20. 60pts for the final 5 is a steal. 

This makes your army 1960 

[Chumphammer]

4 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:

Do Shadowstalkers work well as allies for non D o K?

Yes, cause the teleport ability. its why you take them. Leave them back board/obj early game and then just use them to steal objectives of opportunity. Even their presence will cause your opponent to have to leave a decent defending unit for each obj 


I think with 3 units you can zone out your back board also 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Chumphammer

[5kaven5lave]

What’s the verdict on the non-shooty harpies by the way chaps? Worth taking if you have an 80 point gap?

Basically, I’ve arrived at wanting to try the below after a decent few friendly playtest games over Xmas, had to turn 20 snakes into 15 and Heartrenders into Lifetakers to get a Shrine into my list:

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Bloodwrack Shrine (210)
- General
- Command Trait: Mistress of Illusion  
- Artefact: Shadow Stone  
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings  
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Melusai Ironscale (140)
15 x Blood Sisters (420)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
5 x Blood Stalkers (140)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
Scathcoven (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

Edited January 8, 2021 by 5kaven5lave
Can’t spell.

[Cmidrfti]

@5kaven5lave My initial instinct would have been to drop the Ironscale for a Hag on foot. Brings you back to switching those Lifetakers for Heartrenders or Shadowstalkers. 

Now, I have yet to get my DoK to a table so all my theorycrafting  could be absolute nonsense, so take this with a heavy pinch of salt and hope someone wiser weighs in.

Edit: Some additional thoughts...

I'd maybe also consider switching temples but at that point it starts to look like a very different list. What's the game plan with this?

Edited January 8, 2021 by Cmidrfti

[5kaven5lave]

@Cmidrfti Have been trying out most of the temples now with this list or similar, I’m just thinking with Khailebron having the characters at -2 to shoot with LOS and being able to teleport my source of Mindrazor or just dump 10-30 bodies somewhere in my opponent’s backfield might psych them out a bit. 

[Lucentia]

I've run 10 model units of Lifetakers before, they're interesting as a cheap, fast screen-clearer so that your main force doesn't get speed bumped.  However Blood Stalkers may now perform this role better and will not be such a fragile piece.

They need buffs to actually do anything (witchbrew at a minimum, catechism can also be valuable to bolster their low attack values, Mindrazor can push them to damage 3 for supposing impact against low bravery hordes.)  I'm interested in testing them out with Morathi now that she can give them an extra attack.  I don't know that a 5 model unit is of much value mind, certainly I'd rather have 5 Heartrenders where possible.

[Chumphammer]

I have been running this and so far enjoying it:

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

The Shadow Queen (390)

Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

10 x Witch Aelves (120)
- Bucklers

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

20 x Blood Sisters (480)

9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (100) 

9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (100) 

- Extra Command point (50) 

1980/ 9 drops. 

Only thing is I dont always get a chance to use the command points (Stuff just dies too fast lol) and I am wondering if the extra command point is worth it and maybe swap out for an endless spell or 2.

Id have 70pts to spend (unless aiming for the triumph)

combo 1 might be: Malevolent Maelstorm and Geminids of Uhl-Gysh

With increase in magic armies (looking at you LRL) the 10pt Maelstorm might be a cheeky bonus for those extra dispels. Gemids always offer up some good options. 

combo 2: Soulshare Shackles and Quicksilver Swords

Shackles can be great for holding some of the bigger things up (Gotrek/Skarbrand) and Quicksilver swords can do some good damage onto a big model (especial chaos) or support hero (damn warlocks) especially combined with Black Horror)

[swarmofseals]

@Chumphammer

Personally I'd probably stick with the CP as gives you insurance against an opponent who can take the first turn and kill a bunch of sisters. I don't think you can afford to have that unit eat battleshock on turn 1.

If you wanted to try endless spells though I'd definitely take the first package over the second. Geminids are amazing and I think that you're right that maelstrom can be nice in a few matchups. I've found that shackles rarely works because it rarely actually prevents movement due to being so easy to dispel.

[Chumphammer]

[Graywater]

Pretty exciting stuff. Im loving the snake spell.

[DJMoose]

I'm actually really excited that they put a Bow Snake on the cover of the Battletome.  Maybe finally usable as battleline?  Please GW?

I'm more intrigued to know what they are going to do with the different temples.  Or if they are going to bring sweeping changes to their core abilities  or if we're just going to get a tweak here and there.

Endless Spells!  Finally!  Although, part of me would love them to be Endless Prayers even more...  Nice to see Bladewind come back though.  That was a favorite spell of mine for my Dark Elves back in WHFB.

Edited January 23, 2021 by DJMoose

[Chumphammer]

Its all coming out in Feb with Slaanesh. Told you we would get a new book 1st qtr

[Chumphammer]

Its all coming out in Feb with Slaanesh. Told you we would get a new book 1st qtr

 

Blurb for teclis:

Along with new background that will forever change the Mortal Realms, the book features warscroll battalions for

• Lumineth Realm-lords
• Cities of Sigmar
• Maggotkin of Nurgle
• Flesh-eater Courts
• Ossiarch Bonereapers

There are also warscrolls for a swathe of new Lumineth Realm-lords units, including some that we saw earlier in the week, and unique battleplans that let you play out some of the battles from the narrative yourself. 

Of course, Teclis isn’t going to have everything his own way, Morathi will see to that. After claiming to have achieved apotheosis during the opening gambit of the Broken Realms saga, she is ready to unleash her forces in a fresh assault upon the Mortal Realms. What better way is there to begin such a campaign than with a new battletome?

[DJMoose]

Just now, Chumphammer said:

Its all coming out in Feb with Slaanesh. Told you we would get a new book 1st qtr

*Kowtows*

Shadow and Pain was a pretty good indicator that we were getting DoK and Slaanesh.  GW still managing to take more of my money.

[Overread]

I wonder what the new Tome will bring with it. Clearly we'll get rules updated from the Morathi book and perhaps this means that the old form of Morathi transforming during the battle "might" go away and be replaced with her two form appearance.

We'll certainly get rules for the new Shadowstalkers, Ironscale and the Underworld Warband rolled into the book which will be nice and the new three Endless Spells.

That said I'm surprised there isn't another model or two being added to the force such as a terrain feature.

 

 

Another consideration is if we'll see any of the Dark Elf models rolled into the book as well. My gut feeling is not because almost all of them are male and it would damage the asthetic design of the Daughters of Khaine, but we might see one or two cross over to be general use for the army. At the very least we'll likely see a warband or two appear. 

 

Overall this is a really nice surprise! A slight shame its not the same wave madness that Lumineth are getting, but DoK have some fabulous models already and not every army can get a big second wave with every book. Lumineth I think are going to do seriously well with their new book and I think DoK have sold well and captured a good fanbase of their own so its good to let Lumineth and Slaanesh steal the lime light of new model waves to bolster both of them.