AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 hour ago, stus67 said:

thunderers with rifles only, or thunderers with the special weapons? I got 5 from the start collecting I'm building and I was wondering what would be better for right now.

Rifles for never leaving your airship till later turns. And special weapons for drop offs and ground troop support as they will do more damage then the rifles when they plan on being in the thick of things ( I believe one of the weapons is 9 inch range, so that’s when special weapons is most effective)

rifles also work best for backline thunderers. Special weapons to clear objectives. And when the enemy charges you pop the rerolls to save then punish them next turn for their insolence. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

I think layering our troops in ranks 3 inch apart is a very effective strategy.

maybe one row of arks, next one special weapon Thunderers, third rifle thunderers. Enemy charges first, pop rerolls to armour. Next turn once they cleared the arks kill It with fire. Aethermatic fire. This way you can use shares effectively 

thunderers are more consistent now.... we shall see if they are worth it. 

5 with rifles do I believe 4.4 wounds a round. With special weapons this goes up a lot but with less range. They really wanted to make sure we can’t shoot effectively out of a deep strike haha. 

Assuming the special weapons aren’t changed a whole bunch other then more shots from the random roll ones (which are now contant 3 and 4 I believe) then with the new buff special weapons should be doing around 50 percent more then rifles at close range.  And in close combat they do even more damage so I think they will be a very decent close range damage unit. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Phasteon]

Guys, did we lose our ability to put units into ships when we deploy them? 

I think the rules just state that units can garrison the ships, not deploy together. 

Which means without battalions we have lots of drops now

[Alaric83]

9 hours ago, The Cranky Dwarf said:

I've replaced my admirals head as well as a few arkanauts with a variety of dwarf heads. The thing to watch out for is the beards. The weapons and chests sometimes interfere. I've had OK luck with fyreslayer heads on arkanauts. I think it would be no dice on the thunderers due to the closed arm positions.

You can definitely do that. I did the other way around, Dispossessed bodies with Kharadron heads.

If you want, I have about a hundred heads of Ironbreakers/Irondrakes/Hammerers/Longbeards. We can make an exchange 🙂

[Soolong]

No one has mentioned the Stormcast endless spell Everblaze Comet. 36" range can cause up to 3 MW to units within 10" first turn then up to D3 MW each battleround after it is cast, plus subtract 1 from cast rolls for wizards within 5". can not be moved so its not coming back to hurt you.. plant it on an objective in the back field and let the enemy deal with it.

 

[plavski]

Are there any "fights first in the combat phase" or "target fights last" activation war related things in the book?

[Entombet]

5 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

@stratigo 

listen, I play an army called the legion of Azgorh. They have an infantry block designed for blocking enemy melee so my guns can shoot them to death. 

These armours troops are 9 points per model and have a 4 up save. I am positive that if I can block charges sufficiently enough to win games with them that KO can with arkanauts and boats.

Ive played bad armies. I played S2D before the new book and they are currently my largest collection (I may have more points in space marines it’s pretty close). I’ve played armies who get nearly nothing in support (Azgorh). Looking at this book I think the tools are there. Here is what’s I think

due to the fast nature of close combat armies we will need to focus on a few things to be competitive. 

1) for shooty armies our ability to continue to shoot and avoid being tied down is key. Things that keep us doing that will be priority for these lists. (Perhaps spell in a bottle emerald lifeswarm and some Endrinriggers or the character who heals)

2) for melee armies I think allies are the key. We have a port that allows us to take one of the best grindy anvils in the game. They have orange hair. Promise them a share of the gold and go win games 

3) for objectives arkanauts are decent battleline. We have lower damage then melee armies because they strike twice a round. Don’t let them do that. We have 9 inch guns so we should be able to put more models in a fight. Chokepoints are your friends. If we hit first we can beat a few people in a fair fight. But use of gold shares is key. 

4) mobility, our playstyle May evolve to one that doesn’t care about objectives in the early game. You could mess up some opponents that set up in a spread out formation. Figure out what flank you can devastate and fight a portion of your enemies army your whole army. Play like dark Eldar and never have a fair fight. You will need a plan for taking back objectives mid game but this can easily put an enemy in disarray and make them castle up in later games. A castled up enemy has less board presence. Try to play against that.

honestly the tools are there, this is a mid tier army from my first few looks. You won’t be beating the big boys but the mid tiers will be worried

 

But we could scare middle tier already, and most wanted to be able to compete with big boys

[Entombet]

39 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Guys, did we lose our ability to put units into ships when we deploy them? 

I think the rules just state that units can garrison the ships, not deploy together. 

Which means without battalions we have lots of drops now

Yeap, at least until faq

Edited January 5, 2020 by Entombet

[Entombet]

13 minutes ago, plavski said:

Are there any "fights first in the combat phase" or "target fights last" activation war related things in the book?

Nope

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Stormrage89 said:

I could be very wrong on this, but to me it seems the main thing your going to use your gold for is re rolling armor saves. (unless your opponent has -2 rend) This seems like the most efficient way of using it to me. Army wide 4+ minimum saves is great, combine that with the gold for that first round a heavy unit charges you and your probably going to be able to fire back with plenty of power the following round.  Like i said though i could be very wrong, i know gold can be used for all sorts of things, but this seems like the best use for it. 

Let me know what you think. 

Personally I think it’s one sotuational. So for example when phasing not a lot of rend I’d rather spend a command point for re-roll saves of one on the ironclad and the bag of gold on the shooting. 

with thunderers (if they keep their 4+ to wound) it’s the reverse. I’d Usually rather take something out because that’s their role. Or at least it was, let’s play test first. So I’d say I’d spend the share to improve what their role is. 

Another example would be arkanauts. Currently I’m expecting to mostly take them for their numbers. So I want those extra saves just to keep those number up 

[Phasteon]

4 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Nope

Yes, Barak Mhornar once per game.

[Matt Large]

Been following the discussion for a while as I’ve been anticipating the new book. Got a couple sets of the new box ordered and I’m raring to go. 

Seen a lot of mixed feelings about the state of the army looking at the new rules but I’m still excited to see what can work. The army seems like it will be a lot of fun to play and require some actual thought to play, unlike some armies, which I like. 

I think once we start getting our heads around how these garrison rules and fly high really effect the game after playing it some, hopefully we’ll start to see the potential in the army. I’m not convinced the Ironclad is worth the 510 points but again time will tell and I hope I’m left convinced. I’ll be a change from the Gitz I’m usually rocking! 

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, Entombet said:

But we could scare middle tier already, and most wanted to be able to compete with big boys

I love how this always seems to happen. Not saying you were one of them, and this isn’t meant at your personally . But the overal consensus before this Saturday has been for that KO were bottom of the pile, absolute garbage tier and needed a complete rework... 

now there is a book on their way and suddenly Everybody knows where will end up in a tier list without playing. It’s definitely not high enough and the changes suck. 
this happened for every army that I played and saw updated in the last years. Even with the daughters of Khaine release the first few posts were riddled with complaints that the army wouldn’t amount to much because everything was too fragile, not mobile enough etc. And GW  only wanted to make money on the witch  elves Because the snake ladies weren’t any good. That turned out very different  

if KO good get to the top table last round on cancon before I’m very excited to see what the truly good players will achieve now. When the book truly drops I’m really excited to hear how things work for you all. But until then I won’t believe any estimates on where it will fall. 

 

for my two cents on the whole balance thing. I’d rather not GW keep releasing broken armies. Rather fix the broken ones. I’m happy this army doesn’t look to further the broken tome Cold War. 

[Boar]

8 hours ago, Kramer said:

I’ve fielded 6 man riggers many times and since skywardens dripped in points in the ghb 9 skywardens have been on my mind a lot. The extra range is such a boon. Getting more attacks in, getting them to the right places, striking over a screen. 
have to play them first of course to judge, but I wouldn’t be surprised if skywardens will win it in the end. (And of course in the barak zon Port)

Further thinking on this, probably endrinriggers and skywardens will switch their roles. With skywardens  - with greater melee range like you mentioned (and with better bombs on retreat) - taking it to enemy directly, and endrinriggers escorting ships and firing with all longer reach guns. Though skyhook, for bonus to charge, and especially grapnel with it blocking enemy retreat can be added for utility value to skywardens (and both those ranged weapons have now flat 3 dmg). So f.ex. 6-12 skywardens with one grapnel and one skyhook could be very useful unit.

Maybe even 3 skywardens with grapnel to stop fast/numerous, but lightly hitting enemies from reaching objectives?

[Matt Large]

10 minutes ago, Kramer said:

for my two cents on the whole balance thing. I’d rather not GW keep releasing broken armies. Rather fix the broken ones. I’m happy this army doesn’t look to further the broken tome Cold War. 

Exactly, the few broken books are the exception (I think). If GW have made KO a decent middle way army I think they have gone a decent job at the book. Much like my beloved Gitz book. It’s not top tier but you can make it work and has a lot of fun options. If every army was a middle tier army, the game would be in a great state as we’d all be battling out to get to the top! 

[Entombet]

21 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I love how this always seems to happen. Not saying you were one of them, and this isn’t meant at your personally . But the overal consensus before this Saturday has been for that KO were bottom of the pile, absolute garbage tier and needed a complete rework... 

now there is a book on their way and suddenly Everybody knows where will end up in a tier list without playing. It’s definitely not high enough and the changes suck. 
this happened for every army that I played and saw updated in the last years. Even with the daughters of Khaine release the first few posts were riddled with complaints that the army wouldn’t amount to much because everything was too fragile, not mobile enough etc. And GW  only wanted to make money on the witch  elves Because the snake ladies weren’t any good. That turned out very different  

if KO good get to the top table last round on cancon before I’m very excited to see what the truly good players will achieve now. When the book truly drops I’m really excited to hear how things work for you all. But until then I won’t believe any estimates on where it will fall. 

 

for my two cents on the whole balance thing. I’d rather not GW keep releasing broken armies. Rather fix the broken ones. I’m happy this army doesn’t look to further the broken tome Cold War. 

Well i never played top tier army wfb/aos alike as my main army were mostly chd. I agree with you that i would prefere that gw should release balanced books. But when you play in highly competetive enviroment and see half of the ppl play dok/fec/skaven/slaneesh/cos armies that can charge you first turn,destroy you in magic turn, shooting, summon etc you start to think "how nice it would be on the tip from time to time"

Edited January 5, 2020 by Entombet

[plavski]

The vast - VAST - majority of players do not play in a highly competitive environment. You write your books for the many, not the few. "What's fun, thematic and exciting" is a better design place than "what's more powerful than everyone else".

[Entombet]

16 minutes ago, plavski said:

The vast - VAST - majority of players do not play in a highly competitive environment. You write your books for the many, not the few. "What's fun, thematic and exciting" is a better design place than "what's more powerful than everyone else".

How nice that some armies can do both things and some not.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

21 minutes ago, Entombet said:

How nice that some armies can do both things and some not.

Actually balance wise I think AOS is doin pretty good if that’s what people are complaining about 

[Entombet]

Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Actually balance wise I think AOS is doin pretty good if that’s what people are complaining about 

Yeah top tier is balanced, i just see problem with armies below them fighting them.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Entombet said:

Well i never played top tier army wfb/aos alike as my main army were mostly chd. I agree with you that i would prefere that gw should release balanced books. But when you play in highly competetive enviroment and see half of the ppl play dok/fec/skaven/slaneesh/cos armies that can charge you first turn,destroy you in magic turn, shooting, summon etc you start to think "how nice it would be on the tip from time to time"

Than play one of those armies. It’s not that difficult, it’s part of the highly competitive mindset. Without the same sacrifices you won’t get the same results. If you find being highly competitive that important, thays part of the trade.  Can’t have your fluffy cake and win bake off with it  . 
 

[Kramer]

Also some warscrolls somebody shared on Facebook for those interested and point changes somebody posted  

So point changes

Arkanauts 120->90

Frigate 240->250

Ironclad 380->510

Khemist 140-90

Navigator 80->100

Admiral 120->140

Brokk still 240

Flying Endrinmaster 220

Endrinmaster 100

Endrinriggers 120->100

Gunhauler 130->150

Thunderers 90->120

Skywardens still 100

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

4 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Yeah top tier is balanced, i just see problem with armies below them fighting them.

No the game is pretty balanced. I’ve played other games before. The balanced ones are boring and bland. Dnd 4th edition was not the best 

[Entombet]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Also some warscrolls somebody shared on Facebook for those interested and point changes somebody posted  

So point changes

Arkanauts 120->90

Frigate 240->250

Ironclad 380->510

Khemist 140-90

Navigator 80->100

Admiral 120->140

Brokk still 240

Flying Endrinmaster 220

Endrinmaster 100

Endrinriggers 120->100

Gunhauler 130->150

Thunderers 90->120

Skywardens still 100

 

Me 😛

[Beliman]

10 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Yeah top tier is balanced, i just see problem with armies below them fighting them.

Not even whole armies, just some lists.