AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Nick907]

14 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm starting to hate that. Ending the games in turn 2 or 3 is one of the worst designs. You aim for the head, if you don't hit hard, the match is 80% done. It's one of the main things that I really don't like about the army, I want to have options.

That's fair. Seems like most  builds playout to a quick victory or loss.  Even my 'repair build' tends towards that.

[stratigo]

14 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm starting to hate that. Ending the games in turn 2 or 3 is one of the worst designs. You aim for the head, if you don't hit hard, the match is 80% done. It's one of the main things that I really don't like about the army, I want to have options.

GW agreed with you in regards to KO. Their solution was to simply take away KO's ability to win competitively.

[WatcherintheWater]

Depends on what type of list you play, too. I have 3 games of AoS2 with a combat & movement Endrinrigger/Skywarden & double Frigate Zilfin list, and  3 with a more shooty Urbaz list. My games with the Zilfin list all went 4 or 5 turns. My Urbaz games all went 1.5 or 2 turns, and the person who won the turn 2 priority roll  won each game. Small sample, but it feels like the more shooting heavy you go, the more likely to have a short game, and the more that turn 2 roll matters,

[Worm]

Howdi guys and girl

One question regarding our Dorfs, I am supprised as I see so much of posts like we suck... and so, has anyone try liste like this:

Brokk Gungsen

2xKemist

2x or  30 Arkonaut Company with 9xSkyhooks

1x 10 Arkonauts ...

10x Thunderers

 9x Endringers, saw

It depends what kind of Sky port you take but on AVG you can do with 2 unit of 9 Skyhooks 36 shoots, hitting on +4 and wounding on +3 that should be around 11 wounds -2 AP, meaning opponent will have 0 or +6 save so AVG that will be around 18 wounds if opponent will have save 0 .

If you have re-roll to hit or if you are hiitng monster you get + 1 to hit... that will be 27 wounds if opponent has 0 save.

Than again if some one comes to you you can do around 100 shoots on 12 inches on +4/+4 + Thunderers.

And if needed you can RUN+move+charge with 9 Endringers+Brokk Gungsen, if you do so you add +1 attack on this unit.

 

So if think Dorfs are very STRONG and I am just a new player, I am playing 9 age and 40K and other systems, but if you want POWER list this is the way you ned to go, AoS is NOT tournament game and I really don't like lists as the one above but then again, if some one want's to play this game on tournaments I would do with something like this or maybe 3x 30 Arkonaut 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Worm

[Somanlius]

Hello everyone,

Just got my hands on some Kharadron Overlords today from 2 people in my area that were selling unopened boxes cheap. I've got

Battleforce box

3 boxes of Arkanauts

Ironclad

1 box of Skywardens/Endrinriggers

Ather-Khemist

Just wondering what types of guns and weapons I should arm my units with? Seems like there is a lot of options. Also, should I build Skywardens or Endrinriggers? Consensus on this thread seems to be Endrinriggers with Saws, is that the best option for all 6? Also, does the Ironclad come with multiple options?

I've downloaded the recent FAQs as well and am going to pick up the book shortly. Anything else I should keep in mind? I know its not an optimal list but they were much less expensive than buying new and I'll be sticking with these models for quite some time, just want to know how to have the most fun and play the best I can with what I have. Thanks!

[stato]

4 minutes ago, Somanlius said:

Hello everyone,

Just got my hands on some Kharadron Overlords today from 2 people in my area that were selling unopened boxes cheap. I've got

Battleforce box

3 boxes of Arkanauts

Ironclad

1 box of Skywardens/Endrinriggers

Ather-Khemist

Just wondering what types of guns and weapons I should arm my units with? Seems like there is a lot of options. Also, should I build Skywardens or Endrinriggers? Consensus on this thread seems to be Endrinriggers with Saws, is that the best option for all 6? Also, does the Ironclad come with multiple options?

I've downloaded the recent FAQs as well and am going to pick up the book shortly. Anything else I should keep in mind? I know its not an optimal list but they were much less expensive than buying new and I'll be sticking with these models for quite some time, just want to know how to have the most fun and play the best I can with what I have. Thanks!

Sounds like a good fun mix to me. 

Options wise try to keep a single weapon type per Arkanaut unit, makes it easier to augment them with the Khemist but also makes it simpler to use them with one weapon type, of course Skyhooks are the best so build/convert as many of those as you can (or at least convert 2 more to go with the 4 youll have so you can have one unit of 20 arkanuats with 6 skyhooks).  For the Arkanaut company captians build them with the multi-barrel gun, not saying that its best, but rolling an extra dice when shooting is easier than remembering to have 2 dice that have a different wound roll ?. Riggers are good fun, i like Skywardens but my unit is always added only after ive got enough riggers in my list, if you only have 6 build riggers with saws and maybe 1 (or 2 instead if you want to play a bit more movement based) grapnels. 

Have fun, and if youve not painted an Arkanuat yet do a test model, they have loads of detail and it can be a struggle to come up with a scheme if youve not worked out what the colours will be for all the different materials and textures they have.

[Somanlius]

9 hours ago, stato said:

Sounds like a good fun mix to me. 

Options wise try to keep a single weapon type per Arkanaut unit, makes it easier to augment them with the Khemist but also makes it simpler to use them with one weapon type, of course Skyhooks are the best so build/convert as many of those as you can (or at least convert 2 more to go with the 4 youll have so you can have one unit of 20 arkanuats with 6 skyhooks).  For the Arkanaut company captians build them with the multi-barrel gun, not saying that its best, but rolling an extra dice when shooting is easier than remembering to have 2 dice that have a different wound roll ?. Riggers are good fun, i like Skywardens but my unit is always added only after ive got enough riggers in my list, if you only have 6 build riggers with saws and maybe 1 (or 2 instead if you want to play a bit more movement based) grapnels. 

Have fun, and if youve not painted an Arkanuat yet do a test model, they have loads of detail and it can be a struggle to come up with a scheme if youve not worked out what the colours will be for all the different materials and textures they have.

Right on, thanks for the advice. Definitely leaning way toward the Skyhooks for sure! Not sure what Sky Port to take yet but having 6 Skyhooks with a Khemist to buff them sounds awesome. So probably 6 Skyhooks in the 20 man unit and maybe pikes or the other special guns in the second and third units, just for fun and variety. I was also thinking along the same lines for the Grapnels too.

Yeah, looked at the models in the sprue and they look fantastically detailed, I think they'll be a blast to paint. Thinking to lean into a Black/Bronze/Gunmetal and a touch of red and white theme to mix well with some allied Stormcast Anvils of the Heldenhammer down the line.

[WatcherintheWater]

@Somanlius that’s a really good spread of stuff! I agree with stato for the most part. If you are running the endrinriggers as one unit of 6, I would probably go with all saws, though. Buff them with the khrmist and they can really hit like a freight train. Grappnels are really fun, to, and they make endrinriggers one of the most mobile units in the game, but I wouldn’t start adding them in unless the unit is 9+ models. Just personal opinion. Don’t think you can go wrong either way!

[Beliman]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:35 AM, WatcherintheWater said:

Depends on what type of list you play, too. I have 3 games of AoS2 with a combat & movement Endrinrigger/Skywarden & double Frigate Zilfin list, and  3 with a more shooty Urbaz list. My games with the Zilfin list all went 4 or 5 turns. My Urbaz games all went 1.5 or 2 turns, and the person who won the turn 2 priority roll  won each game. Small sample, but it feels like the more shooting heavy you go, the more likely to have a short game, and the more that turn 2 roll matters,

Yeah. I know, but to do that, I need to talk first with my oponent.

Let's be real, If my friend plays a competitive SCE, or Nurgle, or ID, or DoK, etc..., the matches are just one sided. Yeah, sometimes the Die Gods can help me, and I can still play  past turn 3, but at that point, I just aim to drink my beer and see if I can make a good/fun play (maybe trying to take down a hero or take a low def objective, but that's all). 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Beliman
grammar

[MacDuff]

This is such a cool looking army, but they need ... something. What are the things that'd make them competitive? New units? New rules? New weapons? New point costs?

Edited September 1, 2018 by MacDuff

[Beliman]

9 hours ago, MacDuff said:

This is such a cool looking army, but they need ... something. What are the things that'd make them competitive? New units? New rules? New weapons? New point costs?

IMHO, they need to aproach this question from the other side. What makes KO to not be competitive.

1-Core rules: -1 hit heroes, can't shoot other units in combat.

2-Magic: Endless Spells and new lores (0 magic, need allies, can't dispell endless spells).

3-Meta armies: Some -1 army wide, T1 charge armies and batallions, really hard hitting alpha strikes, dmg over summons (force us to play clown car to survive or aim for the heroes to stop their summoning blobs).

After that, just see what KO has (their mechanics, strategies, wombos, etc...), and why they are handicapped in the main meta (and understand why). It's a first step to work around it. Lowering cost points can help, but every army having tools to work around new and fresh meta should be focused over unite costs.

[MacDuff]

Do they need some super hard, mortal wound causing ground units to play a distraction Carnifex role? Would that help them?

[MacDuff]

I'm thinking of something like the sketches of the deep sea diver dude in recent Necromunda Water Guild leaks. (No pun intended, but there it is anyway.)

[Stevinacan]

KO list makes 26th at NOVA - any idea how we can find out his list?

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/2ubta562 

 

I'm very interested if he ran clown car or came up with something new

[Primus662]

According to the BCP app, he ran the following list.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
- Additional Footnote: These are Just Guidelines
Brokk Grungsson (260)
Aetheric Navigator (80)
- Artefact: Verdany Mantle 
Aether-Khemist (160)
- General
- Trait: Opportunistic Privateers 
- Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster 
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
12 x Endrinriggers (480)
- 2x Grapnel Launchers
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines
Iron Sky Squadron (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

[stato]

9 hours ago, Primus662 said:

According to the BCP app, he ran the following list.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
- Additional Footnote: These are Just Guidelines
Brokk Grungsson (260)
Aetheric Navigator (80)
- Artefact: Verdany Mantle 
Aether-Khemist (160)
- General
- Trait: Opportunistic Privateers 
- Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster 
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
12 x Endrinriggers (480)
- 2x Grapnel Launchers
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines
Iron Sky Squadron (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

He has put some posts about his games on one of the Kharadron Facebook  groups  (cant do a link sorry)

[Hannibal]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:11 PM, stratigo said:

Fyrslayers give slightly more mobile screening and striking, though they nerfed the combo of smiter and zerkers to make it harder to pull off.

What are the nerfs you're reffering to? Can't find anything regarding smiter being nerfed. 

[Stevinacan]

I've got about 600 points of KO and am expanding out to 2k (might be more like 440 if I don't run my Gunhauler as I'm reading they're not good) but do I have to take 3 units of Arkanaunts? I saw the Iron Sky Squadron says 2 Frigates and 2 Arkanaunts so can I run 2 units of arkanaunts in a 2k army instead of 3?

[stato]

5 minutes ago, Stevinacan said:

I've got about 600 points of KO and am expanding out to 2k (might be more like 440 if I don't run my Gunhauler as I'm reading they're not good) but do I have to take 3 units of Arkanaunts? I saw the Iron Sky Squadron says 2 Frigates and 2 Arkanaunts so can I run 2 units of arkanaunts in a 2k army instead of 3?

A 2k list requires 3 battleline.  The Iron Sky Squadron is just something you have in your list, it doesnt change any of the minimum or maximum stipulations of the list. 

Thankfully the Iron Sky Squadron actually allows you 2+ Arkanaut units, so you could have all 3 in the squadron if you wanted, even with only 2 frigates.

[Nick907]

1 hour ago, Stevinacan said:

I've got about 600 points of KO and am expanding out to 2k (might be more like 440 if I don't run my Gunhauler as I'm reading they're not good) but do I have to take 3 units of Arkanaunts? I saw the Iron Sky Squadron says 2 Frigates and 2 Arkanaunts so can I run 2 units of arkanaunts in a 2k army instead of 3?

Yeah you need three battleline at 2k. Gunhaulers aren't 'good' by themselves, but I like to think about them as an 160 point upgrade to the Ironclad with : 10 more wounds, extra SkyCannon, 2x extra carbines, bombs, and melee. Gunhaulers make the Ironclad tougher to kill in a single turn thanks to the 'Escort Vessel' ability.  If your Gunhauler is within 3" of the Ironclad you can put about 1/3 of the damage the Ironclad takes. It should be the equivalent of a '24 wound' Ironclad, on average. 

[High Overlord Xenu]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:24 PM, Stevinacan said:

KO list makes 26th at NOVA - any idea how we can find out his list?

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/2ubta562

 

I'm very interested if he ran clown car or came up with something new

I would like to note, I was 20th before paint scores were factored in.

*superior sniff*

[High Overlord Xenu]

12 hours ago, stato said:

He has put some posts about his games on one of the Kharadron Facebook  groups  (cant do a link sorry)

Cheers mate, I got ya.

 

Quote

NOVA Open AoS GT after-action report. I've finally gotten decent sleep (hotel beds are too ****** soft) and some not-junk food into me, so here we go.

The list I was playing has been posted in the group elsewhere, but will also be posted in the comments for reference. People are questioning the wisdom of Verdant Mantle as my second artifact, but I maintain it is ESSENTIAL. If an opponent manages to get up a Prismatic Palisade and you don't have a way to remove it, it's basically game over. Now then, on to the reports.

Round 1 vs Chai Tzola - Daughters of Khaine
Result: Major Defeat (5 of 17 points)

Chai is an amazing player. He spent a good portion of the tournament on the top table, and for good reason. He handled his DoK list like an expert wields a knife. Multiple overlapping FNP rolls blunted my alpha strike, and a general unfamiliarity with DoK's weaknesses (no one in my local meta plays them) led me to focus too much on Morathi. Don't get me wrong, she's scary, but she should be a tertiary target. Do your three wounds to her AFTER you hit critical targets. Took a major loss on this one, but that probably ended up helping me more than it hurt me. Let's be honest, no KO army is going to take top billing at a major GT until we get a new book.

Round 2 vs Zach Shelly - Ironjawz
Result: Major Victory (17 of 17 points)

Round 2 was Places of Arcane Power. This is a god awful mission, and the fact that it was even written let alone included in a GT is an insult. When the tournament pack came out, I lobbied hard with people I know on the NOVA board to remove it from play and replace it with another mission, but to no avail. For KO players it's incredibly swingy. Either we get absolutely blown out with no hope of scoring any points, or we do the opposite and win on the top of turn 1. This was the latter. Zach knew his army well but only had two scoring units - the Mawcrusha and a Weirdnob. A khemist-boosted Arkanaut unit brought down the Weirdnob, and I used Opportunistic Privateers on the Mawcrusha and laid into it with the rest of my shooting. We played out a few rounds after that but mostly to score our respective secondaries and tertiaries. It was not fun for either of us. That said, IJ is usually an awful matchup for us, so if I'm being honest it was the mission that saved me in this. Most other missions I would have been crushed - I was 0-7 against Ironjawz this edition going into the tournament.

Round 3 vs David Garcia - Daughters of Khaine
Result: Major Victory (17 of 17 points)

Shifting Objectives is a good mission for us, because we can control 1st turn and usually get max points in the first round. On the other hand, my opponent was another DoK list, and this one had the allegiance ability that gave all their units -1 to be hit with missile weapons. Ouch time. It was a drag-out, knock-down fight. I started by using Privateers on a blob of shield wyches, and laying into it with as much firepower as I could muster. This was capped with the Earbuster, which finished off the 30 man unit. I then used Brokk and the Endrinriggers to maneuver into position and charge through the hole I'd opened in their lines. Chainsaws brought the Altar down in a single go, and by the end of the game round a lot of their army was stuck in combat with my Endrinriggers. I won top of 2, and it was basically over but for the screaming at that point. Swell guy though, we were joking the whole time. DoK is a difficult matchup, but if you can get to their creamy center, you stand a chance.

Round 4 vs Luc Charoenthep - Nighthaunt
Result: Major Victory (17 of 17 points)

Duality of Death. Another bad matchup (sensing a theme here?), I used These Are Just Guidelines to gain rerolls vs flying and just prayed. The frigates dropped his allied Arkhan in their shooting, but otherwise I barely did anything to his heroes. Sensing danger, I'd played conservatively and pulled my ships and arkanauts into a tight defensive formation, while leaving my Navigator out as bait. Luc took it, and while that was his only real mistake of the mission, it cost him. I used my Riggers to engage damaged units in an attempt to finish them, while forcing him to charge my ships (and their Skymines / Last Word) if they wanted to get through wherever possible. Skymines are usually worthless. This time, however, they were essential. Mortal wounds is the best way to bring down Nighthaunt, and there were huge swarms of ghosts. Ultimately it was down to just his heroes, which were cleaned up by Brokk and the one lone remaining Endrinrigger. I felt pretty bad afterwards, Luc was obviously salty about it, and to add insult injury due to him not finishing off a number of my units (I had one of twelve Endrinriggers left, and three Arkanauts in both my remaining squads) he only managed to kill 200 points of units for his kill points. He was a great player, one of the most tactical matches I've played in a long while. I got lucky.

Round 5 vs Joseph Urban - Grand Alliance Destruction (Ogres)
Result: Major Defeat (0 of 17 points)

Hoo hoo hoo boy, this was a fun fight. When both KO and freaking Gutbusters showed up at a major GT, no one expected much from either of us. We met on table 6 in round 5 of the largest GT on the east coast. SUCK IT, META! The list is surprisingly durable, and can utterly wreck anything in combat. He had the big ForgeWorld giant which took a lot of my firepower to bring down, and easily kept his heroes safe from my Endrinrigger bomb. He then counterpunched like only ogres can, and we called it after the top of 2. Total game time was roughly 30-45 minutes out of a 180 minute round. Even though I got my ass handed to me on a silver platter, I had a blast. We were both there to have fun, never expecting to get that far, and people kept coming over to watch the spectacle. Joseph ended up getting Rank 5 overall, which he richly deserved. No one saw that list coming.

Round 6 vs Jacob Berry - Stormcast Eternals
Result: Major Victory (17 of 17 points)

This was the final round of a 2 day tournament. None of us had gotten much sleep, half of us were hungover, and we were all pretty punchy at this point. So when I sat down against Tzeentch-themed Stormcast, I was a little befuddled. Those who know me know that the two things I hate most in AoS are Tzeentch - f*cking birdmen don't follow the ****** rules and are just like "LOL NOPE YOU LOSE!" - and Stormcast Eternals - the golden poster boys who get all GW's toys while the rest of us get scraps. So this was one hell of a grudge match for me. Luckily the scenario was Focal Points - if there's one thing we're good at, it's taking territory early. By the end of my first turn, I had units on four of the five objectives, and just started racking up points. His army was based around ludicrous saves, so my Endrinriggers and Brokk were the MVPs throughout. Great game of tactical positioning, but I eventually tabled my opponent at the top of 4. We exchanged d6 - I gave him one of my Warp Charged Gaming team dice, he gave me a "Don't Be an AoShole" die, and we parted on good terms, despite the fact he's a filthy Tzeentch/Stormcast player AND SHOULD BE SHUNNED THUSLY. Sorry. Got carried away.

Final record: 4-2, 73 out of 102 possible points, rank 20 out of 92.

Overall thoughts: KO are still in a really bad place. The two games I lost were against opponents who either regularly played against KO, or who had KO as their second army. Much like the Spanish Inquisition, our chief weapons are fear and surprise in the current meta. Most of my opponents flat out said "I have not played against Kharadrons in this edition", and all of them were flabbergasted that I was not running a Clown Car setup. They kept asking "Okay, so what deep strikes?" They did not expect to be blitzed in the first turn, nor did many of them realize that once my first turn is done, I lose a LOT of my speed and punch. The two who beat me took the turn 1 punch in stride and hit back without skipping a beat; those who lost entered what I like to call "Triage Mode" in which they play hyper defensively to try and score as many points as possible while doing a minimum of damage to me. Many of them also assumed Brokk was my General. Yes it was clearly marked on my list that the Khemist was the general, but Brokk was the first model they saw on my list, and he was also the most survivable character at least on paper. Most people I talked to agreed that KO NEED a new book to be competitive in the higher levels, and that GW has done us a real disservice. I mean, hell, I feel bad for anyone who buys a hardcopy book for anything but the fluff - nearly half the rules are inaccurate as printed now.

Overall I had a blast, and plan to return next year to defend my title of "Best Kharadron Player". Yes, I was the only one by day 2. Shut up.

 

[Stevinacan]

How did you avoid your Frigates from getting blown off the board if you didn't get turn 1? That 5+ is kind of scary running 2 Frigates lol

[High Overlord Xenu]

13 minutes ago, Stevinacan said:

How did you avoid your Frigates from getting blown off the board if you didn't get turn 1? That 5+ is kind of scary running 2 Frigates lol

That's what the formation is for - to allow me to control opening initiative. I'm pretty sure I took top of 1 every time, though I fought a lot of fast armies. If I could deploy in such a way as to keep my assets out of the enemy threat radius, I would give them top of 1 in a bid to gain a double turn.

[Hannibal]

7 hours ago, High Overlord Xenu said:

[batrep]

Thanks for your thoughts and insights. Highly appreciate it. 

 

But what does "clown car" mean?