AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Phasteon]

31 minutes ago, Causalis said:

I have to ask again: Why do people think the Admiral is "amazing"? He is an ok combat character but other than that he doesn't bring much to the table. His abilities are meh. The re-roll 1s for a ship is literally the same as the generic command ability we have in the rulebook. The run + fire ability is redundant as our ships don't run anywhere, they simply fly high. The +1 to-hit in melee is quite gimmicky as our Dwarfs have almost no punch in that phase and the Skyriggers can't profit from the ability since they can never garrison a ship. And the re-roll charge ability is (again) the same as the generic rulebook one. 

So why take this guy, apart from his warlord traits or artefacts? He won't be winning combats against any dedicated melee units and his abilities can be used by other heroes, simply by employing the generic rulebook ones. 

With the proclamator mask hailer he can use one of his warscroll CAs for free, he gives +1 CP on a 2+ with command trait, makes everyone within 12“ immune to battleshock and the +1 hit isnt gimmicky. 

It made my Ironclad, Admiral, Endrinmaster and Thunderers take 10 wounds from Nagash in close combat. 

Its the little things that add up fast.

Edit: I am very tempted to try out Barak Zon, then its 5 As on 2+/2+ from him and another 3 at 2+/2+ from the Endrinmaster + 10 3+/3+ from the Thunderers. Thats pretty good for a „shooting army“ 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Cauthon]

I think the repel boarders command ability could be very useful. Yeah we don’t punch very hard but some armies are going to be desperate to close with our ships. 

 

Giving +1 to hit to 20 thunderers, the admiral and maybe an endrinmaster seems like a good use of a command point to me. 

 

Especially if someone is coming at you with a small small unit of flying screens like screamers that has to die so you can disengage/ retreat and still shoot. 

 

Situational, like everything. 

 

Rerolling charges on a big block of skywardens can be pretty clutch too imo. 

 

Running and shooting can be very clutch sometimes, I’m thinking especially in late game. Sometimes you won’t be able to fly high and still need to get on that objective. If you are down to 2 or 3 inch movement (overloaded)being able to run and shoot could be the difference between getting to the objective and getting to the objective while you blow someone else off of it. For 2 command points you could auto run 6 and be able to shoot. 

 

Ironclad is super freaking slow slow if you can’t fly high and are overloaded so seems potentially clutch to me. 

 

Also yeah you can do generic command abilities but you still need a hero on hand to perform them for you. Sure you could do all that with a different hero but the admiral comes with his 5++ shrug, better melee profile and like you mentioned, the better traits and relics. 

 

You cant claim an objective as a hero if you on the boat. At some point we’ll need hero’s to babysit an objective and the admiral is the only one with just a little survivability with his LoS shrug. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Cauthon

[Satyrical Sophist]

4 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Arkanauts are better than Vulkites, cheaper per model and 4+ base, not just against melee

Vulkites are 7 points per wound. Arkanauts are 9 points per wound.

[Phasteon]

3 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Vulkites are 7 points per wound. Arkanauts are 9 points per wound.

And? You still pay 14 points A MODEL vs. 9 points A MODEL. Pls try to read more carefully next time. 

[Causalis]

All of what you said is true and I admit that with the warlord trait and artefact the Admiral is a very nice support character. 

8 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

It made my Ironclad, Admiral, Endrinmaster and Thunderers take 10 wounds from Nagash in close combat. 

It always makes me a bit sad that the god of death himself is such a pushover. For his points, Nagash really isn't good in combat and I have no idea why your opponent would rush him into that. Sitting back and spamming 8 Arcane Bolts into the Ironclad would be a much safer bet and with his +3 to cast, it is not unlikely to deal D3 MWs. Gods just shouldn't be playable IMHO. They can never be balanced in such a way that they feel even somewhat close to their lore.

I will be taking the Admiral every game, btw. :') I just really like his mini and he in my eyes he is a good(ish) character. 

[Phasteon]

8 minutes ago, Causalis said:

All of what you said is true and I admit that with the warlord trait and artefact the Admiral is a very nice support character. 

It always makes me a bit sad that the god of death himself is such a pushover. For his points, Nagash really isn't good in combat and I have no idea why your opponent would rush him into that. Sitting back and spamming 8 Arcane Bolts into the Ironclad would be a much safer bet and with his +3 to cast, it is not unlikely to deal D3 MWs. Gods just shouldn't be playable IMHO. They can never be balanced in such a way that they feel even somewhat close to their lore.

I will be taking the Admiral every game, btw. :') I just really like his mini and he in my eyes he is a good(ish) character. 

Yeah I love my Admiral too, was my first KO model and I won so many glorious battles with him as my commander. 

He really earned this „Veteran“trait aka war wound. 

 

As for the Nagash thing, he shot those bolts but then got cocky. On the other hand I misdeployed as he didnt tell me that he got the portal before he used it (mistake on my part, could have asked for his list but was overexcited to play my new army). 

Otherwise he wouldnt be in range anyway and if he didnt charge he wouldnt be in range next turn either as I just would have fly high away. 

KO are really hard to catch with those typical hard hitters. 

 

Edit: Ironclad took 12 damage in total but Riggers, Endrinmaster and own repair ability healed 10 wounds 🥳🎉

Edited January 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Causalis]

2 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Yeah I love my Admiral too, was my first KO model and I won so many glorious battles with him as my commander. 

He really earned this „Veteran“trait aka war wound. 

 

As for the Nagash thing, he shot those bolts but then got cocky. On the other hand I misdeployed as he didnt tell me that he got the portal before he used it (mistake on my part, could have asked for his list but was overexcited to play my new army). 

Otherwise he wouldnt be in range anyway and if he didnt charge he wouldnt be in range next turn either as I just would have fly high away. 

KO are really hard to catch with those typical hard hitters. 

I can just picture Nagash desperately trying to zap that pesky boat out of the Sky while the Dwarfs run donuts around him. :') In the lore Nagash can "teleport" (well his essence just floats around at the speed of thought) and change his size at whim. He could probably quite literally pluck an Ironclad from the sky and put it in his pocket. Allmighty Lord of Death in the lore, good wizard with what amounts to a wooden sword on the tabletop. *insert "NYAAH" Skeletor-Sound*

[GDD]

2 minutes ago, Causalis said:

Gods just shouldn't be playable IMHO. They can never be balanced in such a way that they feel even somewhat close to their lore.

When you compare the mortarchs and Morathi being demigods versus Alarielle and Nagash I think it makes a point of how the AoS gods are gods not because they are invincible in combat -but because of the things they have wrought OUTSIDE the battlefield.

Every time one of the gods makes a move the whole setting changes to a degree. I think the fact that great heroes, monsters and demigods could kill them makes AoS feel more personal and grounded. The gods aren't outside the setting, they are a vital part of it.

It gives AoS a parallel to norse and greek mythology which I really like personally. 

[zilberfrid]

If I want to build some terrain, what are things you guys recommend?

I was thinking about some Adeptus Mechanicus stuff, especially the Forgeshrine (replacing the skulls with Dwarf faces), and build from there with standard steampunk stuff.

Not looking for too much of a hassle, but just a display piece some 30-40 cm round lifting out from the clouds.

[Causalis]

3 minutes ago, GDD said:

When you compare the mortarchs and Morathi being demigods versus Alarielle and Nagash I think it makes a point of how the AoS gods are gods not because they are invincible in combat -but because of the things they have wrought OUTSIDE the battlefield.

Every time one of the gods makes a move the whole setting changes to a degree. I think the fact that great heroes, monsters and demigods could kill them makes AoS feel more personal and grounded. The gods aren't outside the setting, they are a vital part of it.

It gives AoS a parallel to norse and greek mythology which I really like personally. 

I see your point. But on the other hand we have all those feats these gods perform on a regular basis. In "Nagash: The Undying King" he single-handedly defeats a whole Nurgle Chaos Army by raising every drowned and dead being in a frozen ocean, formed a giant body out of them and just went to town on the (literal) unwashed masses. Mind you this was at the time when Nagash was still splintered and recovering from his defeat by the hands of Archaon. So yes, Gods can totally be defeated by powerful champions/demigods. But normal armies don't pose a challenge to them. Which is a stark contrast to what Nagash can do on the tabletop. A simple solution would be to rebrand the Nagash model to something like "Avatar of Nagash" etc. so that it is clear that it isn't the God of Death himself but simply an aspect of him. 

[Phasteon]

5 minutes ago, Causalis said:

I see your point. But on the other hand we have all those feats these gods perform on a regular basis. In "Nagash: The Undying King" he single-handedly defeats a whole Nurgle Chaos Army by raising every drowned and dead being in a frozen ocean, formed a giant body out of them and just went to town on the (literal) unwashed masses. Mind you this was at the time when Nagash was still splintered and recovering from his defeat by the hands of Archaon. So yes, Gods can totally be defeated by powerful champions/demigods. But normal armies don't pose a challenge to them. Which is a stark contrast to what Nagash can do on the tabletop. A simple solution would be to rebrand the Nagash model to something like "Avatar of Nagash" etc. so that it is clear that it isn't the God of Death himself but simply an aspect of him. 

Dont compare the books to the tabletop. In the Irondragon KO novel an Arkanaut Captain takes out a Varghulf and later a Chaoslord of Tzeentch (or whatever the name of his Warscroll is). 

 

Rising a whole bunch of dead bodies is cool but so is covering the „god of death“ in aethermatic volleys until he takes a quick journey back to Shyish. 

After all its a game, dont be too serious about it 😉

PS in the end the bad guys get defeated anyway. 

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Causalis said:

 A simple solution would be to rebrand the Nagash model to something like "Avatar of Nagash" etc. so that it is clear that it isn't the God of Death himself but simply an aspect of him. 

I think that's a good idea anyway. The same should apply to any other god. It's odd that two Alarielles or Morathis could battle one another.

If there are mortals on the field, gods shouldn't be there.

[Phasteon]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

I think that's a good idea anyway. The same should apply to any other god. It's odd that two Alarielles or Morathis could battle one another.

If there are mortals on the field, gods shouldn't be there.

And its less odd if the Avatars of the same god fight each other?

[King Under the Mountain]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:31 AM, Sesom said:

Green gemstone paint over a bright silver.

Thanks for the tip.  Tried it out and looks pretty decent. 

[michu]

4 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I think that's a good idea anyway. The same should apply to any other god. It's odd that two Alarielles or Morathis could battle one another.

If there are mortals on the field, gods shouldn't be there.

Many has said it already but here we go again - what we have in the tabletop are only avatars, small parts of those gods - something like C'tan shards.

[Phasteon]

4 minutes ago, michu said:

Many has said it already but here we go again - what we have in the tabletop are only avatars, small parts of those gods - something like C'tan shards.

Where does it say that? 

[King Under the Mountain]

33 minutes ago, GDD said:

When you compare the mortarchs and Morathi being demigods versus Alarielle and Nagash I think it makes a point of how the AoS gods are gods not because they are invincible in combat -but because of the things they have wrought OUTSIDE the battlefield.

Every time one of the gods makes a move the whole setting changes to a degree. I think the fact that great heroes, monsters and demigods could kill them makes AoS feel more personal and grounded. The gods aren't outside the setting, they are a vital part of it.

It gives AoS a parallel to norse and greek mythology which I really like personally. 

And after all that we choose to play the faction that turn their noses at said Gods and would rather ride around in Air Ships and shoot them. 

[Phasteon]

You probably cant kill the gods but you can for sure defeat them and their armies. 

Heroes never die, just because a model is „removed from play“ doesnt mean that it died. 

Otherwise ****** you Nagash imposter! I killed the original years ago !

[GDD]

11 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

And after all that we choose to play the faction that turn their noses at said Gods and would rather ride around in Air Ships and shoot them. 

Hey I rarely ever play with special characters myself, but I'll admit that I wanna see a Grungni model more than any other god. 

And besides Barak-Thryng is a thing.

[zilberfrid]

41 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

And its less odd if the Avatars of the same god fight each other?

Well, sometimes we are fighting ourselves more than anything, this could be an expression of that in the gods.

34 minutes ago, michu said:

Many has said it already but here we go again - what we have in the tabletop are only avatars, small parts of those gods - something like C'tan shards.

This is my way of thinking.

 

Let's continue with our beloved Steampunk Dwarves, a WIP of my first Kharadron (5 dwarves and a halfling, ignore the halflings in the left corner):

EDIT: I just saw the battlebox of last year, I should have started Warhammer just a few months earlier, that would have been a good set.

Edited January 13, 2020 by zilberfrid

[mikethefish]

So normally I am a big fan of Warhammer Weekly, but I am not looking forward to listening to Tom moan and groan nonstop about how bad the KO book is in this week's show (which is ridiculous, but he's welcome to his opinion I guess).  Might have to give it a pass.

How has the book/new rules gone over in everyone here's area?  Is it seen as a success or failure?  After a few games, games, has the opinion changed at all?

[Eevika]

1 minute ago, mikethefish said:

So normally I am a big fan of Warhammer Weekly, but I am not looking forward to listening to Tom moan and groan nonstop about how bad the KO book is in this week's show (which is ridiculous, but he's welcome to his opinion I guess).  Might have to give it a pass.

How has the book/new rules gone over in everyone here's area?  Is it seen as a success or failure?  After a few games, games, has the opinion changed at all?

KO Seems very mid tier. Some people just look at the game at the high comp level and KO is not there. 

[Phasteon]

6 minutes ago, Eevika said:

KO Seems very mid tier. Some people just look at the game at the high comp level and KO is not there. 

Well. I defeated Nagash, Archaon and 30 Warriors StD, i dont care which tier my army is, I am just better 👍🏻

[Eevika]

1 minute ago, Phasteon said:

Well. I defeated Nagash, Archaon and 30 Warriors StD, i dont care which tier my army is, I am just better 👍🏻

Those are also pretty mid tier right now. Top tier is OBR, Slaneesh, DoK, Warclans and CoS 

[Phasteon]

2 minutes ago, Eevika said:

Those are also pretty mid tier right now. Top tier is OBR, Slaneesh, DoK, Warclans and CoS 

Well then I‘m gonna win against them too. 

I call them easy match ups, as I can basically counter everything that makes those top tier armies so strong