AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Juicy]

11 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

well, the units in the battalion are 580 pts, the battalion itself will be around 120-130 pts, so that's 700pts. That boost should be quite big to make it interesting to take "1 w/turn" castigators and gryph "no save" hounds

Yeah that is true but gryphounds are still 18 wounds + Super fast and can disengage from melee. They are the perfect screen trick wise ( overcosted a bit).  Ive seen them play pretty good and people never like to play against them because if you dont go first on them they disengage and you have to engage them again.  If the battalion improves these weak units somehow we might give them more play.   im trying to see something positive here.

[JackStreicher]

I used Gryph hounds to great effect as screen for a CoS Blackwater fastness shooting list!

[Marcvs]

9 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Yeah that is true but gryphounds are still 18 wounds + Super fast and can disengage from melee. They are the perfect screen trick wise ( overcosted a bit).  Ive seen them play pretty good and people never like to play against them because if you dont go first on them they disengage and you have to engage them again.  If the battalion improves these weak units somehow we might give them more play.   im trying to see something positive here.

that's surely the right attitude. I hope that you are right regarding them being playable! I am more hopeful about whatever the Stormkeep might bring (GW has written a lot of meaningful allegiance abilities in recent battletomes)

[Juicy]

3 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

that's surely the right attitude. I hope that you are right regarding them being playable! I am more hopeful about whatever the Stormkeep might bring (GW has written a lot of meaningful allegiance abilities in recent battletomes)

yeah me 2. I really hope they give our paladins some love. I feel like our 2015 stormcast book had so much synergie and tricks for the warrior chamber and this last book from 2018? deleted almost every usefull battalion. Im playing skyborne slayers for 3 years. Its time to get more warrior chamber themed stuff

[jhamslam]

5 minutes ago, Juicy said:

yeah me 2. I really hope they give our paladins some love. I feel like our 2015 stormcast book had so much synergie and tricks for the warrior chamber and this last book from 2018? deleted almost every usefull battalion. Im playing skyborne slayers for 3 years. Its time to get more warrior chamber themed stuff

Elite as we are, i dont care much for battalions, theyd have to be super good to justify their costs.

Im much more excited for new Battle Traits/ Army wide abilities.

I dont know why GW does the "heres 5 pages of artefacts and traits. OOPS cant use these in a stormhost tho! "

 

Like ew, the DoK book is so well designed that way

Edited November 2, 2020 by jhamslam

[Juicy]

Just now, jhamslam said:

Elite as we are, i dont care much for battalions, theyd have to be super good to justify their costs.

Im much for excited for new Battle Traits/ Army wide abilities.

I dont know why GW does the "heres 5 pages of artefacts and traits. OOPS cant use these in a stormhost tho! "

 

Like ew, the DoK book is so well designed that way

for now i cannot justify going anything els then skyborne slayers. That battleshock immume saved me so many games. That alpha strike is pretty oke even with sup par units. These new battalion/battletraits have to be good els i pretty much keep on playing my slayers probly. I kind of hope for the old hammerstrike battalion or vanguard wing style to get a return someday. Mayb with these battalions we got some interresting stuff.

[jhamslam]

5 minutes ago, Juicy said:

for now i cannot justify going anything els then skyborne slayers. That battleshock immume saved me so many games. That alpha strike is pretty oke even with sup par units. These new battalion/battletraits have to be good els i pretty much keep on playing my slayers probly. I kind of hope for the old hammerstrike battalion or vanguard wing style to get a return someday. Mayb with these battalions we got some interresting stuff.

Ive always thought that SCE should get Deepstrike bonuses since its their thing. Too many armies teleport/ have deepstrike capability, 9 inches is fine for them , i think a special SCE rule to make it 8 for us is fair

[SirSalabean]

I’m considering either SCE or OBR. With SCE I don’t know where to start it’s such a large range. I like the vanguard stuff best I think? With the griffins and eagles and other beasties. I think the first range are quite static and clunky so I’m not too bothered with them. No sure what’s in the newer range. so if I went SCE I’d go for:

Animal based, No Hammer ideally swords, newer sculpts. 
 

what’s viable/a decent direction?

[Juicy]

Just now, SirSalabean said:

I’m considering either SCE or OBR. With SCE I don’t know where to start it’s such a large range. I like the vanguard stuff best I think? With the griffins and eagles and other beasties. I think the first range are quite static and clunky so I’m not too bothered with them. No sure what’s in the newer range. so if I went SCE I’d go for:

Animal based, No Hammer ideally swords, newer sculpts. 
 

what’s viable/a decent direction?

SCE  is in a very rough spot right now. We got 1 top list that works good. The vanguard triple battalion shooting list. You can find enough info about it on the forums or youtube. They have some palladors but the list is mostly shooting, running and screening with birds/hunters and some redeployment. 
 

oldmodels: Skip the warrior chamber dudes

For beasties you could do things like starcast with double dragons or combine the might of 1 big dragon with enough dracoths to run the enemy down. 
 

[SirSalabean]

6 minutes ago, Juicy said:

SCE  is in a very rough spot right now. We got 1 top list that works good. The vanguard triple battalion shooting list. You can find enough info about it on the forums or youtube. They have some palladors but the list is mostly shooting, running and screening with birds/hunters and some redeployment. 
 

oldmodels: Skip the warrior chamber dudes

For beasties you could do things like starcast with double dragons or combine the might of 1 big dragon with enough dracoths to run the enemy down. 
 

I like the birds and Griffin things. Is the vanguard start collecting any good? 

[Juicy]

8 minutes ago, SirSalabean said:

I like the birds and Griffin things. Is the vanguard start collecting any good? 

Yeah its good if you build it into this specific battalion. Atm none of the sce units besides mayb raptors are really good. It might change with the new battalions next week so if you wanna run sce you better wait till the new rules of brokenrealms are live:)

[Marcvs]

here's the solution to our bad warscrolls: bring warscrolls from other battletomes

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/03/broken-realms-new-rules/

Command abilities from the battletome which influence STORMCAST ETERNALS units:

- lord celestant on dracoth (battleshock immunity)

- lord celestant on foot (+1 to hit melee)

- lord ordinator (battleshock immunity)

I suppose the Stormkeep is a stormhost, so CAs from other stormhosts are obviously out.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Marcvs

[Nizrah]

 

[Marcvs]

1 minute ago, Nizrah said:

This is worthless!

I mean, I don't disagree BUT there is still a (small?) chance that the Stormkeep will a) have a good command ability to use on CoS units and/or b) not be a Stormhost but a sub-sub-allegiance (à la Fangs of Sotek) and hence be usable with the CA of your stormhost of choice

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

here's the solution to our bad warscrolls: bring warscrolls from other battletomes

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/03/broken-realms-new-rules/

Command abilities from the battletome which influence STORMCAST ETERNALS units:

- lord celestant on dracoth (battleshock immunity)

- lord celestant on foot (+1 to hit melee)

- lord ordinator (battleshock immunity)

I suppose the Stormkeep is a stormhost, so CAs from other stormhosts are obviously out.

uh no. Anvils of the Heldenhammer are holding Stormkeeps in this book as a narrative.

'Its not a stormhost, merely a name for our allegiance abilities

[Marcvs]

Just now, jhamslam said:

uh no. Anvils of the Heldenhammer are holding Stormkeeps in this book as a narrative.

'Its not a stormhost, merely a name for our allegiance abilities

Ok, but (after checking) all the CAs of stormhost can only target < STORMHOST > unit, and the Stormkeep does not confer the < STORMHOST > keyword to CoS units, so it's still restricted to the very few CAs that can target STORMCAST ETERNALS units I mentioned before.

[rosa]

That will be the big question if storm-keeps are in fact stormhosts... Anvils with COS... Oh boy...

Man, somehow including COS is weird and I am not sure if I like it.

What is your feeling?

[Marcvs]

Just now, rosa said:

That will be the big question if storm-keeps are in fact stormhosts... Anvils with COS... Oh boy...

Man, somehow including COS is weird and I am not sure if I like it.

What is your feeling?

as written, you would not be able to use the Anvils CA on CoS units anyway, so not much of a boost

[rosa]

Where do you read it?

If we still can choose a stormhost and include a COS unit than those will be handled if they have the stormcast keyword.  So Command ability works..

So, double tab for the win.

Edited November 3, 2020 by rosa

[Marcvs]

3 minutes ago, rosa said:

Where do you read it?

If we still can choose a stormhost and include a COS unit than those will be handled if they have the stormcast keyword.  So Command ability works...

They get the STORMCAST ETERNALS keyword, not the ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER keyword and the command ability targets the latter:

 

EDIT: for precision sake, they *DO NOT* get the STORMCAST ETERNALS keyword, they can be targeted by command abilities which can target STORMCAST ETERNALS units

Edited November 3, 2020 by Marcvs

[rosa]

Ok, I see your argument.

Isn't there also written that all.units gain the stormhost keyword?

So COS also getting the anvils keyword!?

But I guess we will see this later.

Rules wise I would prefer if this is a unique stormhost that will include COS units. Would be more "clean".

Edited November 3, 2020 by rosa

[Marcvs]

2 minutes ago, rosa said:

Ok, I see your argument.

Isn't there also written that all.units gain the stormhost keyword?

So COS also getting the anvils keyword!?

The rule for Stormhost says that " All STORMCAST ETERNAL units in your army gain that keyword". As CoS units would not be STORMCAST ETERNAL units (only possible targets for CAs which target that keyword) they would not get the Stormhost keyword
 

[rosa]

Yes, you are right. Thanks.

[jhamslam]

Cos avoiding the allies rules and becoming 1 in 4 Gives us lots of exciting options.

- Putting in 10 handgunners alongside liberators for extra shooting. Irondrakes as a substitute. 

- Shadow warriors for deepstrike shoot shenanigans.

- Anointed on Phoenix. + 20 Phoenix Guard for a VERY solid block that is tough to shift.

- Steam Tanks and Artillery obv

- Demigryph knights which are damn near our own cavalry in terms of toughness if not MWs.

- Freeguild guard as cheap chaff for anything we wanna do.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I suppose the Stormkeep is a stormhost, so CAs from other stormhosts are obviously out.

I'm not so sure that Stormkeeps and Stormhosts are mutually exclusive. It could be a faction split like Coalesced/Starborne for Seraphon.

You can't use any Stormhost command abilities on a COS unit because it doesn't gain the appropriate <Stormhost> keyword, but you can make the COS unit your general and avoid having to take the required artefacts/command traits from a Stormhost.

This means you can take Staunch Defender as Anvils