Kaylethia Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I’m a bit pessimistic. I think that if Hunters become subfaction battleline, they will become weaker in return. They are currently our best option, and enabling battleline Hunter spam at a similar level to their current power doesn’t seem likely to me. I do hope that Sylvaneth receives enough of a boost that I feel motivated to paint and play more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 22 minutes ago, Kaylethia said: I’m a bit pessimistic. I think that if Hunters become subfaction battleline, they will become weaker in return. They are currently our best option, and enabling battleline Hunter spam at a similar level to their current power doesn’t seem likely to me. Would a hunter spam truly happen if they become battleline? Currently i don't see lists that use more than 3x hunters units, thanks to their points + our heroes points. Lets assume they stay at the current points (if the warscroll isn't nerfed in the next book I can see they getting even more expensive to be honest), you could ditch the 3x tree revenants normally used for battleline, which are 240 points in total. This change would let us take just one extra kurnoth unit, not exactly a spam I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 18 hours ago, Arzalyn said: Would a hunter spam truly happen if they become battleline? Currently i don't see lists that use more than 3x hunters units, thanks to their points + our heroes points. Lets assume they stay at the current points (if the warscroll isn't nerfed in the next book I can see they getting even more expensive to be honest), you could ditch the 3x tree revenants normally used for battleline, which are 240 points in total. This change would let us take just one extra kurnoth unit, not exactly a spam I would say. There are 2 potential changes that come with hunters as conditional battleline. First, we can now fit everything into a battle regiment. Right now if you attempt to Kurnoth spam, your 3 battleline units are going to mean you can only take 2 squads of 6 and still fit into a battle regiment. It is still possible to make a battle regiment list right now, but doing so basically means either bringing Alarielle, or bringing a big block of dryads. With battleline kurnoths, you could bring 4 reinforced units and 2 small hero's and have a one drop. Second, we can now bring a squad of 9 Hunters. Now, due to the large bases, the only way to effectively run 9 hunters is either with bows or with scythes, but if they don't change the warscroll, 9 scythe hunters is only dealing ~24 damage before saves. For 645 points... I'm not impressed. 9 bow hunters cost 675 points and are doing a mere 12 damage before saves. All out attack + re-roll hits would bring that up to 21.33 damage before saves. These numbers aren't inspiring to me. Overall, I can see fitting better into a battle regiment to be a decent reason for someone to run Kurnoth Battleline. But unless there are some rather significant warscroll buffs, I can't see "kurnoth spam" being a viable list outside of for giggles. If they do significantly change the warscrolls that all goes out the window of course. That being said, I don't see any way that GW can overhaul Sylvaneth without some significant warscroll changes unless they are content with Sylvaneth remaining a bottom tier army for the whole edition. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevelyan Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 The latest Warcom article on balance changes admits that the entire Sylvaneth faction - every single unit - is below the power curve and merits additional VPs for killing tougher units in other factions. If nothing else, it’s a sign that Geedubs thinks we need a serious competitive boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Trevelyan said: The latest Warcom article on balance changes admits that the entire Sylvaneth faction - every single unit - is below the power curve and merits additional VPs for killing tougher units in other factions. If nothing else, it’s a sign that Geedubs thinks we need a serious competitive boost. Lets hope this points toward a good shake up when our new book drops them! I doubt this patch will help us at all, as some we tend to have trouble killing some of the units in that list to get anything from this change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevelyan Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 27 minutes ago, Arzalyn said: I doubt this patch will help us at all, as some we tend to have trouble killing some of the units in that list to get anything from this change. As I saw someone comment elsewhere: ‘Promising the mouse a lifetime supply of cheese if he kills the dragon, doesn’t help him kill the dragon’ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Any idea why is Sylvaneth in the Prime Hunters category? People used to say it was in good position and not a low tier army. 😉 Jokes aside, it is a good sign that GW is aware of the problem and maybe, just maybe, the next battletome will be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acr0ssth3p0nd Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Anyone else hoping we get a way to take Wanderers as a Coalition option? It's not like they're particularly powerful models, and could add a nice bit of variety to our army with Wild Riders cavalry and Sister of the Watch for ranged units. It's been a dream of mine to be able to build a force where I can have those spooky deerbois pop out of a Wyldwood on the flank! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said: Anyone else hoping we get a way to take Wanderers as a Coalition option? It's not like they're particularly powerful models, and could add a nice bit of variety to our army with Wild Riders cavalry and Sister of the Watch for ranged units. It's been a dream of mine to be able to build a force where I can have those spooky deerbois pop out of a Wyldwood on the flank! I sent this very question to the FAQ team when GHB 21 landed. I honestly think it was a typo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Played two tourneys with Sylvaneth. Went 4-2 overall. First tourney was basically max hunters in Winterleaf with a Treelord Ancient. Main strategy was just to pop heed the spirit song to buff essentially the entire army and sit on objectives with 2+ saves. Here is a quick summary. (sorry I forgot the scores) Game 1 vs Living city (4 fulminators, doralia, hurricanum, 3 demigrphs, griffon, crossbow spam) He took first turn and managed to get around my screens to nuke 3 hunters with fulminators and get into my lines with General on Griffin. However I counter charged with 6 Scythe Hunters, popped kernel, and deleted his fulminators. I also survived his Griffon, and managed to kill it next turn. He failed the 2+ rez lol However his shooting, magic, and generally higher speed let him pick me off at a distance and I just couldn't get my slow hunters onto objectives. He pulled out the win by just a few points. Game 2 vs Fyreslayers (including Gotrek) Not much to say here. This was an absolutely new player just learning the game. I coached him as best I could but gave zero quarter. Killed everything but Gotrek by turn 3 and maxed points. Big win. Game 3 vs Lumineth (50 sentinels, 30 wardens, Teclis) LRL are usually a boogey man for me, but the latest LRL point hikes really hurt them. The player is very experienced but made the decision to take first turn despite out-dropping me. A decision he came to regret. He started off doing Tecnado and sentinel spam, but got super unlucky when I managed to use my single Unbind to stop his 20 sentinel block from getting off Power of Hysh. However he still managed to kill a Treelord and do about 20 mortals to various units. I knew I had one play. I ran every single unit in the army, leaving only 3 Kurnoth bow hunters in my deployment zone. I then scored the double and was right in his face. I charged 6 Scythe hunters into both Teclis and Sentinels. I popped the kernel, killed Teclis and killed about 15 of the 20 sentinels. Elsewhere I killed 10 sentinels. Leaving him with only wardens left. I ended up tabling him turn 3 for another big in. Ended up placing 2nd overall! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Here is my second tourney. (and a continuation of my earlier post) This list was more Kurnoth Hunter Spam but I dropped the bow hunters and Treelord Ancient for Alarielle. Game 1 vs Soulblight (Graveguard, wolves and character spam) This was an interesting game. My opponent had no shooting or significant magic damage. So Alarielle was able to pick and choose her combats. His wolves ran onto objectives early but were no match for Hunters or Alarielle. He had Radukar the beast and a Vengorian Lord. I found those two characters to be pretty scary, but individually they couldn't take Alarielle and my opponent was too hesitant to commit them and risk losing them. I was able to bully them away from objectives while picking off wounds with magic and her spear. His Graveguard arrived in deepstrike and did a lot of damage, but they arrived on the same table side giving me absolute control over the other half of the table. My opponent was a bit slow so we got called early, but I was up a few points and I got the win. Game 2 vs SCE (crazy fun list) This was the TO/Ringer and he brought a crazy SCE list consisting of a Star Drake, Yndrasta, Knight Draconis, Tauralon, and Frost Phoenix and like 9 prosecutors. He took first turn and ran at me hard, making multiple turn 1 charges. The Stardrake absolutely whiffed on attacks and got beat down in return. The Phoenix and Yndrasta charged 6 Hunters in a forest and so struggled to get past my saves. I popped kernel to delete both of them. On my turn I charged and killed the units that failed their charge. The rest was just catching/cleaning up Prosecutors. The phoenix actually got back up but I just killed it again lol. Big win. Game 3 vs SCE (5 dragons and the 5+ ward dude) Here is where things got frustrating. He takes first turn and double moves and charges me with all the dragons. He shoots off my screens and kills a lot of Hunters and brackets alarielle a bit. Luckily he fails his Evocator deepstrike charge on the right flank of the table. On my turn I wipe his right flank evocators with 6 hunters, but now only have Alarielle, her summoned Hunters, and like 3 more hunters to deal with 5 dragons on the left flank. Elsewhere 10 vindictors are camping an objective and a Celestant Prime is waiting in the clouds... I do the best I can but I just can't get through squads of dragons with All out Defense and 5+ Ward, and alarielle is taking more damage than she heals. (i didn't realize how badly she brackets, she is usless at 10+ wounds). To make a long story short, the dragons eat everything, and the celestant prime kills alarielle. I'm tabled for a MASSIVE lost I end the day 2-1 but place pretty low bc of relatively low scoring games 1 and 3. I had fun. Hunter spam can do ok as long as you make good run rolls (and zero mistakes lol) and can keep your Treelord Ancient alive (and remember to pop Heed the spirit song). Alarielle did better than expected, but only in very specific matchups. The first hard matchup she faced she was useless. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Sorry to spam guys (man this thread is dead) but in case you haven't been following the Rumor thread, Whitefang pretty much confirmed the two summer codexes are going to be Skaven and Sylvaneth. We just have to tough it out for 3 more months and then we will have a functional book. I hope.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, Landohammer said: Sorry to spam guys (man this thread is dead) but in case you haven't been following the Rumor thread, Whitefang pretty much confirmed the two summer codexes are going to be Skaven and Sylvaneth. We just have to tough it out for 3 more months and then we will have a functional book. I hope.... Its possible they will officially confirm our tome tomorrow as well (adepticon reveal). I really hope they do, so we can start going way from the winter that is our actual tome and maybe spring again with better rules! (bad seasonal pun intended) I hope we are lucky to get an new unit as Nighthaunt did. We could use a unit between the dryads/revenants and the kurnoth points and rules wise 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 16 hours ago, Arzalyn said: Its possible they will officially confirm our tome tomorrow as well (adepticon reveal). I really hope they do, so we can start going way from the winter that is our actual tome and maybe spring again with better rules! (bad seasonal pun intended) I hope we are lucky to get an new unit as Nighthaunt did. We could use a unit between the dryads/revenants and the kurnoth points and rules wise Yea given the way the most recent four codexes were released, we can at least count on a battlebox with a new character. I wish they would diversify our infantry a bit. Maybe making Spites elite multi-wound infantry (which my opponents always seem to assume given their base side/model anyway) rather that just another throwaway screen that wastes reinforcement points. I also wish they would spruce up our allies/coalition options. Wanderers should be coalition, or allies at the very least. Make Ironbark appealing. Maybe even bring back the "Wood and Sea" army option from two books back. I am also looking forward to being able to choose artefacts/command traits again. Newer books don't always lock them in to subs anymore. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, Landohammer said: Yea given the way the most recent four codexes were released, we can at least count on a battlebox with a new character. I wish they would diversify our infantry a bit. Maybe making Spites elite multi-wound infantry (which my opponents always seem to assume given their base side/model anyway) rather that just another throwaway screen that wastes reinforcement points. I also wish they would spruce up our allies/coalition options. Wanderers should be coalition, or allies at the very least. Make Ironbark appealing. Maybe even bring back the "Wood and Sea" army option from two books back. I am also looking forward to being able to choose artefacts/command traits again. Newer books don't always lock them in to subs anymore. Yeah, I hope our new hero is something similar to the arch revenant, a little more expensive them the branches but less so than our treelords/warsong. Our actual point range is a little bizarre, we have a couple of heroes and all our battleline at less than 100 points, but our other unit option (kurnoth) and heroes are all above 200 points. More things in between would be healthy for building lists. Diversifying our infantry would be really good, spites, dryads and tree revs are mostly chaff, with some differentiation for being dirty cheap, having a better save + more models and having the teleport respectively. Dryads are do a good job as screens and chaff unit, but Spite and tree revs could use some changes. I would prefer if the tree revs keep their teleport, but lore wise I would expect them to go to 2 wounds and get a better attack profile. I'm with you in hoping they make the spite the 2 wound + good attacks profile unit. Some coallition units would be cool, lots of people that used to play wood elves would be happy if they could take some of their units in our faction. It would complement our weak points quiet well as Wanderers have Calvary and a shooting unit, both things we lack. Ironback getting some duardin would be cool as well, but I think they will probably leave it out in favor of a stronger anti-shooting effect for that sub rule. I REALLY hope we keep our good artefacts and traits, we have a lot of them that never saw much play thanks to all our sub locking both of them. We gonna loose a good amount of them judging by the other 3rd tomes so far, so I fingers crossed they keep the cool ones! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 I agree that Revenants should be more elite and they should change them a lot. Their cost is really high for battleline units imo and u only get 5 of them. I think battleline units should have at least 10 models in the box even if they can be played as a 5 model unit. If i buy 3 boxes to get them as battleline i pay 120 euro for a total of 240 points max. That is quite expensive. At least we have dryads to compensate for this at the moment, that would get me 570 points for 120 euro. Even Kurnoth Hunters are a better deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 20 hours ago, Landohammer said: Sorry to spam guys (man this thread is dead) but in case you haven't been following the Rumor thread, Whitefang pretty much confirmed the two summer codexes are going to be Skaven and Sylvaneth. We just have to tough it out for 3 more months and then we will have a functional book. I hope.... He has a reliable track record? I used to follow the dakkadakka rumour quality tracker but it started to be misinformation even back in the warseer days. Well glad to hear. On the upside people could spend this time painting their armies in preparation for the new book And really getting to know the army so when it drops and if it's a good improvement they will get to ride a high wave of being really good with their army! Learn the game and edition more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Popisdead said: He has a reliable track record? I used to follow the dakkadakka rumour quality tracker but it started to be misinformation even back in the warseer days. Well glad to hear. On the upside people could spend this time painting their armies in preparation for the new book And really getting to know the army so when it drops and if it's a good improvement they will get to ride a high wave of being really good with their army! Learn the game and edition more. Pretty good one actually, he gave us info on dominion, nurgle, idoneth and fyreslayers releases months before GW announced them. Its funny you said that, because I almost finished mine Sylvaneth hahahaha. Just need to finish a Kurnoth unit and Alarielle (and them any new unit we get!). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Popisdead said: He has a reliable track record? I used to follow the dakkadakka rumour quality tracker but it started to be misinformation even back in the warseer days. Well glad to hear. On the upside people could spend this time painting their armies in preparation for the new book And really getting to know the army so when it drops and if it's a good improvement they will get to ride a high wave of being really good with their army! Learn the game and edition more. Yea, from what I understand he is believed to be a true GW insider. But he doesn't ever straight up say anything. He just drops hints and likes on certain posts. In this case he was flat out asked what is the next two books and he posted a picture of a mouse eating a leaf... However this lines up with the "Mischief and Vigilance" hint words GW provided on the next tomes, along with rumours of Dryads getting reboxed. So its not technically confirmed, but we have 3 separate sources pointing in that direction. With the extreme exception of Stormcast and Slaanesh, the latest tome releases have been pretty decently balanced. So I am optimistic for Sylvaneth. I just hope GW gets away from the whole wyldwood dependence thing. Terrain should supplement the army, not be its sole allegiance trait. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Landohammer said: Yea, from what I understand he is believed to be a true GW insider. But he doesn't ever straight up say anything. He just drops hints and likes on certain posts. In this case he was flat out asked what is the next two books and he posted a picture of a mouse eating a leaf... However this lines up with the "Mischief and Vigilance" hint words GW provided on the next tomes, along with rumours of Dryads getting reboxed. So its not technically confirmed, but we have 3 separate sources pointing in that direction. With the extreme exception of Stormcast and Slaanesh, the latest tome releases have been pretty decently balanced. So I am optimistic for Sylvaneth. I just hope GW gets away from the whole wyldwood dependence thing. Terrain should supplement the army, not be its sole allegiance trait. The wood thing has been since the 2005 Wood Elf update. It was pretty amazing back then. Like,.. fairly OP. I feel since GW originally envisioned Sylvaneth as the successors to WE they keep bringing it along. The Herdstone is fairly critical to BoC so I'm not sure GW will move away. it's more a point on how to do it right perhaps? There was a conversation I had a while ago that a certain painter was possibly a leak since he was pissed they dropped Brets. I remember seeing one guy drop things up until he left. Personally I would just assume it was coincidental, he seems like the kind of guy to walk away instead of do nefarious things. Well all in all good news and onwards and upwards folks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acr0ssth3p0nd Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 10 hours ago, Popisdead said: The Herdstone is fairly critical to BoC so I'm not sure GW will move away. it's more a point on how to do it right perhaps? Yeah, I think there's totally room for GW to figure out making "Board control and surgical strikes through terrain" balanced and reliable regardless of the preexisting terrain layout; the thing is, will they? My hope is that we can (a) take over preexisting terrain to apply some of the Wyldwood effects, and (b) get a free Wyldwood placement/terrain takeover each turn. This could go a long way to helping our army without overpowering our warscrolls or reducing the gameplay "vibe" of our gimmick. Of course, hope is often the first step on the road to disappointment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSalabean Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Do we think we will get new models? If so what? I know we got the noot noot guy last year but I’m hoping for a kurnoth hunter style character or a new unit perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, SirSalabean said: Do we think we will get new models? If so what? I know we got the noot noot guy last year but I’m hoping for a kurnoth hunter style character or a new unit perhaps A new hero sculpt is pretty much a given, I may be something completely new or a new sculpt for a existing old hero. A new unit is really uncommon, but maybe GW is starting something new with nighthaunt and we get two heroes + a unit as well! Speculating around the hero (as it is the one we can count on getting), our range is new all plastic already, the Branchwraith would be the only candidate for a new sculpt IMO. A new unit would be a low wound hero. We have 2 "drayds" heroes, 2 "tree revenant" heroes and 1 "spite" hero. I not sure we count Durthu or the ancient has a "Kurnoth" hero, so a Kurnoth hero would fill a missing gap. A spite hero would be a good option as well, as they only have Drycha and her been a named hero make it a little harder to customize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craze Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 A Kurnoth heavy box with an on-foot Kurnoth-y hero would be a dream, as you cannot have too many Kunroth Hunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) I think its also good to remember this insectleg rumour engine. It could be part of a new Sylvaneth model as it wasnt on the Necromunda fleas. Edited March 28, 2022 by Iksdee 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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