AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion

[Gwendar]

Hey again everyone, I'm trying to downsize my army count to around 3 and looks like LoA will take up that 3rd slot. I've asked about numerous builds here before, but I really like some that include 9-12 K'daai, 2-3 Magma Cannons (with or without an Iron Daemon) and a couple big units of 20-30 Fireglaives. Looked at Robs gunner guide on the honest wargamer for some inspiration on this matter and it seems good. Any insight for competitive play?

[B.C.D.]

Thanks for the feedback

Also what the heck GW? Why can't we ally in the hellcannon? Because these are obviously chaos dwarfs in its crew. Or am I missing something? As far as I read it, we can't ally this beautiful beast without going GA chaos, right?

[Qrow]

Question for those who have an old K'daai destroyer proxy, what ally are you running it as now? I am trying to choose one AoS unit profile to solidly run as my K'daai destroyer and can't make up my mind.

Profiles I have tried so far are:

Chaos War Mammoth; my K'daai Destroyer model is fairly big so it seemed to fit the role, performs well on the tabletop and is relatively unique so it doesn't get boring. Plus the large wound pool fits the model nicely.

Skaarac the Bloodborn; the old Destroyer model WIP became skaarac so it seemed fitting, but Skarrac has never performed well for me, or at least not nearly well enough to justify his cost. It's also not legal to take him in 2000 point games as an ally, another nail in this ones coffin

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage; a little underwhelming for the model, plus it can be really swingy and inconsistent. One match outrageous carnage went off almost every turn, in another I only hit once in 11 dice. I also see others in my area running this unit with the actual model, so it feels boring and strange to use

Mazarall the Butcher; tied with the Mammoth as my favorite so far, though the Mammoths large wound pool fits the Destroyer better than the increased armour.

 

What would be the best unit to run as a Destroyer proxy?

Edited February 19, 2019 by Qrow

[KevenM]

10 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Hey again everyone, I'm trying to downsize my army count to around 3 and looks like LoA will take up that 3rd slot. I've asked about numerous builds here before, but I really like some that include 9-12 K'daai, 2-3 Magma Cannons (with or without an Iron Daemon) and a couple big units of 20-30 Fireglaives. Looked at Robs gunner guide on the honest wargamer for some inspiration on this matter and it seems good. Any insight for competitive play?

For competitive play here are my two cents: I think you have some of the key elements of a good LoA list in there. Competively, I suggest units of 6 for the K'daai - less prone to damaging battleshock losses while still having a metric ton of attacks. 

I am 100% in favour of the big blocs of fireglaives. They have good offensive output. I suggest a unit of 10 to bubblewrap the magma cannons and prevent units with movement tricks from charging them. If your opponent doesn't have any they are perfect to hold an objective.

Speaking of magma cannons they can be swingy and solely based on mathhammer they may not be the most competitive but I still like to take a pair in competitive play because their potential damage really forces opponents to modify their plans and make mistakes. Always have a daemonsmith with them though for that expanded threat range.

As far as other elements go, make sure you've got some magoc users. Daemonsmiths are excellent so I always take one or two. Drazoath is expensive and not ultra-competitve but I've found his ability to cast two spells, fly / high movement and decent combat potential useful to threaten a flank and force your opponent to split their forces (espeicially useful against splely close combat armies).

For heroes, the Tau'ruk is a must. He is the best hero choice in the army in my opinion and a beat stick in combat. Castellans are nothing special and banner bearers can be useful - just be careful about including them in K'daai or centaur heavy lists because they tend to get left behind.

Finally, bull centaurs are decent but you have to take them for the right reasons... their biggest assets are high(er) movement and a lot of wounds with a decent save. I usually take them in units of 6 to tie down large sections of the board.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Iron Daemons, Dreadquakes or Rockets - they are all swingy and a bit underwhelming...

For endless spells I'd go for Cogs or Geminids obviously!

Hope that helps

[Gwendar]

@KevenM Great, I was thinking of going 30-30-10 Fireglaives, but I've honestly been reconsidering the K'daai in general. Would it not be better to just bring along 3x3 Bull Centaurs for some melee threat? In my head I just picture them charging ahead of the Fireglaives to tie units up to shoot at since the Bull Centaurs seem to be a good hybrid hammer\anvil unit. On that same subject though, I imagine something could be said for 2x6 K'daai hiding behind the 2 big Fireglaive units to make use of their 3" range, and this also seems to push the army into something potentially better at holding objectives, but not so much at capturing them.

Here's the basis that I'm going with. The final 580 points are filled with either Bull Centaurs or 2x6 K'daai. Any extra can go into endless spells.. Oh and I really like the idea of Skarr for hordes, especially when he can come back so easily and for 80 points, why not?:

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Grotesque 
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)
- Allies
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)

Total: 1420 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 11
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 104

[Lord Krungharr]

I am very not sold on K'daai.  In all combats my Skullcrackers have done way way more damage and lived longer.  Even as they mortally wound themselves from churning out 4D6 attacks almost every time they can still put out more hurt than K'daai for equivalent points.  Of course Skullcrackers can't fly or run and charge.  That's the K'daai's advantage as I see it, and they sure look cool.  But I'd still rather have another lawnmower (which is what my opponents at the last two tournaments have called the Skullcrackers).

I like the Centaurs.  The spite shield and hooves, plus rending axe and flat 2 damage each make them more killy than K'daai, and with a Tauruk in ability range even more killy. 

To make up for the K'daai speed and getting places fast I'd recommend the alliances of Gutrot Spume and Blightkings ( to outflank), or something like Karanak who can give you free flesh hounds and maybe Skar Bloodwrath (since he can die and probably pop up anywhere later on).   Azgorh really needs some summoning or movement trickery thingie.  Just a little something.  Maybe someday Forgeworld will grant us a battletome of our very own....

 

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

I always run a big block of 12 fireborn with a an allied chaos sorcerer lord on steed. He always casts daemonic vigor on them granting reroll 1's for save, hit and wound. They roll with my taurak general (grotesque and armour of barry the cruel) for inspiring presence if they take too much damage.

They can run and charge on the same turn so 1 cp will guarantee a 6" run if you really need to get there fast. 

They also have a 3" range. This is huge. They can hide behind a unit of fireglaives and become a real threat if anyone charges. 3" range also means they will usually all get into combat...

When you have the reroll 1's up and you swamp an objective with the taurak and skull crusher, everything will die... if you throw in the reroll 1's to save, the 5+ unmodified save becomes much better. Throw in ash storm to help the affair...

12 also gives you points saving over x2 units of 6...

Edited February 20, 2019 by Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed

[The Door Master]

Hello, I'm rather new to Legion of Azgorh, would anyone be able to tell me the measurements of the war machines of the artillery train?

Thank you very much.

[Gwendar]

@Lord Krungharr @Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed Really appreciate the input! If Skullcrackers were still easily obtainable I would definitely grab 1-2 of them and include them, but finding one seems rare (and then you have to take the price people charge for them into account) and I would rather not attempt to convert one.

I don't know why I didn't think about a Sorcerer Lord... that's just great. Skarr is cool and all and I really love the mechanic, but I'm not sure on using him over the Sorcerer Lord (of course, if I had 80 points free I would have him in there as well):

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Grotesque 
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel 
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Allies
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
12 x K'Daai Fireborn (480)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

[Lord Krungharr]

Can't argue with that army!  Not sure what the Soulsnare Shackles do though.  What if you left those out and got a Triumph instead?

I think I'll be using Azgorh for the Adepticon Championships coming up at the end of March, since they're all painted and ready to rock.  Thinking about Skaven too but really not sure if I can get those painted by then; maybe just for the Vanguard event (1000 points).  Azgorh has some really tough matchups with things like Sylvaneth and Stormcast, at least I've had some tough matchups with them.  I think they do best at higher point levels.

[Gwendar]

@Lord Krungharr I guess just to potentially tie something up to keep the Fireglaives shooting longer, but I agree that the triumph would be better (and I usually hate using endless spells anyway).

I mainly play Skaven, but I really love the aesthetic and playstyle of Azgorh too so...once everything else I don't play anymore is sold, I'll be jumping on board.

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

@Gwendar @Lord KrungharrWith 2 Daemonsmiths they can't both be casting ash storm so an endless spell in the list will definitely be able to be cast. ChaosSorcerer lord would just be casting daemoninc power over and over again, same with 1 of your daemonsmiths on Ash Storm duty. This leave the third caster... 

Shackles works wonders with Ash Storm and Burning Skies battle trait. They help us try to control the movement of our opponents. Usually the pressure they push on our enemy is worse then the actual damage or debuff. Slowing down a flank is great for extra shots from magma cannons and fireglaives. Just don't throw shackles where you are sending your K'daai.

Geminids is the other stand out endless spell that helps debuff the enemy. Good range so the daemonsmiths don't need to move much to make them effective. They turn our K'Daai into beast mode if you can get -1 hit from Geminids, -1 hit from Ash Storm and the Chaos Sorcerer reroll 1's for hit, wound and save....  They are all actually easy to get off in one turn but as soon as your opponent has been on the receiving end of a buffed unit of 12 K'Daai with a debuffed unit they will make sure this combo is never successful....  The bright side is they will forget about all your fireglaives and magma cannons for at least a turn or two.

[Gwendar]

@Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed True, but I just started thinking about casting Mystic Shield on the big Fireglaive unit for some survivability. You've convinced me back to using shackles though. Triumphs have never really helped me much anyway... and after playing with Shackles a lot more recently, I've been pretty much sold on their use for how cheap they are.

If I could fit in geminids I would definitely consider it, however I don't know that I want to drop some Fireglaives for it, nor do I really care for predatory spells in the first place. If those manage to get turned back onto me I'll definitely feel it.

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

@Gwendar the chaos sorcerer lord also has his oracular visions 10" buff so you may be lucky to be in range. I usually put it on the general to increase his survivability. 

Cool thing about shackles is you can cast it from turn 1 and it just stays there until dispelled. It does then open up casting mystic shield/fireball/arcane bolt/realm spell with the caster that isn't casting the essential buffs. Can't think of a better way to spend 20pts.

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

On 2/22/2019 at 4:24 AM, Gwendar said:

@Lord Krungharr @Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed 

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Grotesque 
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel 
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Allies
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
30 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (300)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
12 x K'Daai Fireborn (480)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

My 2k list has 20 less fireglaives. Replaced by a skull cracker. I find the extra punch/counter charge element/target saturation the skullcracker adds is immense. 3" reach is also a great bonus if behind a unit. It works real well with the big K'Daai unit, chaos sorcerer lord and general.

I also do something a little different with my fireglaives. I keep them in units of 10. With lots of small units we can take advantage of our battle trait more often and you can chaff up the board. So 5 units of 10. I always get outdeployed but try to setup knowing you will not get the first turn. 

With cunning positioning you can have x2 mini castles with x2 fireglaive units, a daemonsmith and a magma cannon as a slow moving section of your army.  The last fireglaive unit can be deployed somewhere as a sacrifice for reserve units.

Then all the fast stuff together as a hammer blow.

 

Edit: for geminids you can drop the skullcracker and add another Taurak and Geminids.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:17 AM, B.C.D. said:

Thanks for the feedback

Also what the heck GW? Why can't we ally in the hellcannon? Because these are obviously chaos dwarfs in its crew. Or am I missing something? As far as I read it, we can't ally this beautiful beast without going GA chaos, right?

We can as 'Slaves to Darkness' allies

Edit: just checked in the app... wtf when did we loose this?? Wtf! They  take away our greenskins and they take away the  Hellcannon?? Wow... 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed

[Kaleb Daark]

29 minutes ago, Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed said:

We can as 'Slaves to Darkness' allies

Edit: just checked in the app... wtf when did we loose this?? Wtf! They  take away our greenskins and they take away the  Hellcannon?? Wow... 

I dropped with the ghb 2017 I think, where compendium armies lost their points in there.   All of the proxy this with that stuff dropped out of the compendiums around the same time, with many special characters becoming generic heroes.

Forgeworld made a faux pas with this one and let it slip through the net.

In the Tamurkhan Legion Army list the Hellcannon was in there, but because the rules were already written in the Warriors of Chaos Army Book, the entry just said to look in the Warriors book. (no point printing them twice if they weren't the same).

When everything got ported to the  AoS Legion of Azgorh compendium this meant that the hellcannon didn't get dragged over with it.

Same with the Hobgoblins.

In the case of the Hobgoblins, as there were no longer appropriate models the LoA compendium said use the grots from the GA destruction.

A lot of people missed the point, and of course, there was much wailing an gnashing of teeth as the bitter debate over whether they were destruction or not.

What people were not reading was that there is no model for a hobgoblin, but use a grot instead and it's part of a LOA army in respect to keyword allegiance - nothing changes, they were still hobgoblins with the LoA allegiance and why not a 'legion grot' keyword to separate them out.?

Would have been a trick missed in my opinion as wolf rider sales would have soared.

 

Now, here's my take on it. (wishlist/begging hat on...)

Forgeworld has got the monstrous arcanum, which has rules for many loved but currently OOP models in there.

I think it should extend this to the Legion book and give us our hellcannon back - which was after all a Chaos Dwarf weapon anyway and the warriors of chaos book made that clear.

Also, our war machines don't have separate crew statlines making them very powerful as you can't snipe the crews off and weaken them.

Perhaps @Ben could talk nicely to his FW contacts when he next visits the mothership and petitions them on our behalf to give us back our beloved cannon (with combined statline of course :p ).

[Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed]

@Kaleb Daark thx for the info. I'm still in shock... 

[Televiper11]

I hope we get the Hellcannon back. I just won one off eBay.

 

EDIT: So warscroll builder let's me add it as an ally but the Ayzr app won't.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Televiper11

[Televiper11]

Crafted my first LoA list to take to table, Hell Cannon included! Will report how I did and any feedback would be appreciated.

Leaders
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Grotesque 
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel 
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- Darkforged Weapon & Pyrelock Pistol
Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer (100)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (90)
10 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (90)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)

Units
5 x Furies (60)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

War Machines
Magma Cannon (140)
Hellcannon (300)
- Allies

Battalions
Blackshard Warhost (160)
Blackshard Warhost (160)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 460 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Televiper11

[Lamekh]

You've got 460 Points in Allies, but are only allowed 400...  

Not sure on what you plan gaining by getting two Warhosts

Why only one item?

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Lamekh

[Gwendar]

@Televiper11 On top of what @Lamekh said, you would need another castellan, standard bearer and 2 more units each of Ironsworn and Fireglaives to fill out that second Warhost..

[Televiper11]

8 hours ago, Lamekh said:

You've got 460 Points in Allies, but are only allowed 400...  

Not sure on what you plan gaining by getting two Warhosts

Why only one item?

 

I should've clarified this is an Open Play event so Ally points don't matter. 

I've decided to drop the second Warhost.

Why only one item? Am a total newb to AoS and forgot I could take a second one.

Am adjusting my list accordingly.

[Televiper11]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

@Televiper11 On top of what @Lamekh said, you would need another castellan, standard bearer and 2 more units each of Ironsworn and Fireglaives to fill out that second Warhost..

Duh, right. I am dropping that second Warhost. 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Televiper11]

I have another newb question: the Icon Of Dominion Bearer -- is it the same as a Battle Standard Bearer but instead of being an individual unit, it is part of your Ironsworn unit?