AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[Xasz]

Oh yeah, I can finally tell someone what I've been thinking about.

The existent of evil empires, I think something like this was hinted in some fluff pieces but here is my concept.

These cities or city states or obviously situated more to the edges of realms. So siegeing and razing them wouldn't be deemed a worthwhile endeavor. Other cities could even trade with these, but more about this later.

Society in such a city would be what you expect of Chaos, the strong lead, the weak follow. A considerable amount of inhabitants would be slaves (humankind, beastmen, mutants). These would be the labour force of such a city, working in mines or growing food. (later might be imported as well).

In true chaos fashion, climbing the ladder is always and option. Slaves fight in arenas, in which the weakest are sorted out through death and the strong might advance (slow process, and mutants or beastmen might still be deemed inferior)

This leaves us with the middle and upper class of society. The former is made up of warriors, sorcerers, priests, smiths, maybe even traders, so the casual chaos follower. Other than mines there would magic libraries, more arenas or training grounds, bestiaries,  smithies in which slaves and masters are working tirelessly and so on.

Order is established by a guard of Chaos Warriors, but it's just that. A basic order so the city can function, there is no rulebook. Mr. guard might just decide to kick in your head if you are of lower status and are standing in his way.

The upper class consists of Chaos Lords and the Circle of Four. The latter being the ruling class of the city, made up of one follower of each of the major chaos gods. These might actually be Varanguard, as these cities have to pay tribute or a form of tithe to Archaon in form of soldiers, weapons or other resources. Personal might be shifting regularly due to 'tragic accidents' but for the most part they uphold a general sense of order in the city, with sheer force if need be.

Trade goods of such a society would be minerals or precious metals some of which might only be found at the edges of an realm and therefore be only obtainable through trade for the "good" cities/empires (or it might be dangerous to harvest them and is considered unethical for cities that care). Other than that, magic artifacts, enchanted weapons and chaosy stuff that you cannot obtain otherwise.

Import would be obviously food, as there is not too much to harvest or at least not enough to sustain the city in the vicinity and more slaves. (I can even see refugees from the 'honest' cities entering an evil empire, to flee their jurisdiction, likewise with mutants or outcast as they wouldn't be able to survive by their own)

I am aware of the parallels to the old chaos dwarf fluff but I think this is a rather cool concept which I have been carrying around for a while now. There are some plot holes, like why would they work together right from the start but I think you can make up some good reason. Especially when Archaon is involve.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Xasz

[Xasz]

I had to think about this on my way to work a bit more.

I can see such a city being divided into  several districts. Each lord on the council governs one district, like a Khorne Lord would manage/lead the Khorne area. Which would have more smithies and arenas than others. The other lords would have no say in how he governs it as long as it benefits the collective to some degree.

There would be one undivided 'neutral' part of the city, which is governed my the council as whole (pretty much holding each other in check). Here the majority of trade would be happening, as travelers and traders from outside wouldn't have to fear getting their head loped of by some khorne warrior 10 meters in. Although, Mr guard might watch the other way when he doesn't like you.  (but at least there would be some repercussions or compensation)

[Waiyuren]

Whoo! The allies changes make my Wild Hunt list legal in matched play. Yuss.

Lord on Daemonic Mount 

Sorcerer on Manticore 

5 knights (enscorcelled)

10 Marauder Horsemen (javelins)

2x1 chariot/s (exalted with greatblades)

20 warhounds

1000pts

I haven't tried it using the dogs as just dogs yet, but i had a lot of fun when i used 10 as proxies for flesh hounds.

For 2k i think i might bump those knights to 10, add another two 5-man units with lances and put everything i can into the Ruinbringer Warband. I want my Daemon Princess in there too, and maybe a gaunt on disc for the extra unbinds and late-game objective stealing for "wizards/heroes with artifacts only" scenarios.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Also, has anyone tried converting a warqueen into a mounted version? I'm still using a metal Archaon as my lord. ?

Edited July 25, 2018 by Waiyuren
Grammar

[amysrevenge]

Hey remind me.  There's nothing (other than wanting a better list) stopping me from taking 2 different Godsworn Champions of Ruin battalions, is there?  Like, one hero and three units for one, a different hero and a different three units for the other one? 

It's not an efficient use of points, at all - I mean, all the units I'm looking at could fit in one instance of the battalion, so it's actually one *more* drop instead of the drops advantage you normally get with battalions.  I'm getting an artefact and a second try at the very situational free hero phase attack for 120 points beyond the CP/50. 

In my mind it's entirely worse than cramming them all in a single battalion.  But it's legal, right?

[Agent of Chaos]

Im pretty sure you can double on a battalion so it would be legal. As long as you fulfill the criteria it shouldnt matter. As you said its possibly a disadvantage or at least inefficient.

[amysrevenge]

Here is what I'm going to run with for now. 

Local meta is that Mark of the All-favoured on a DP gives it all 4 abilities, so that's what I'm doing.  I understand that not everyone does it that way.

Two drops - Lord of Chaos and Battalion.  Can't get both DP and LoC in the same battalion, and I want both.  I intend to make use of the Run and Charge command ability (that's the only reason I choose Slaanesh), and I love the DP.  I've decided that the DP is more likely to be in position to benefit from the free pile-in than the LoC, so he gets to lead the battalion.

I reckon I'd rather have the Spawn than another spare CP for those 50 points.  I could instead grab a different endless spell - counting the 20 spare points, the Soulsnare Shackles, and the Spawn that I'm not committed to, that's up to 90 discretionary points I could spend.  Any recommendation?

 

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Lord Of Chaos (140)
- General
- Trait: Master of Deception
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Daemon Prince (160)
- Axe
- Artefact: Mark of the All-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (170)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 174

[Ravinsild]

38 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Here is what I'm going to run with for now. 

Local meta is that Mark of the All-favoured on a DP gives it all 4 abilities, so that's what I'm doing.  I understand that not everyone does it that way.

Two drops - Lord of Chaos and Battalion.  Can't get both DP and LoC in the same battalion, and I want both.  I intend to make use of the Run and Charge command ability (that's the only reason I choose Slaanesh), and I love the DP.  I've decided that the DP is more likely to be in position to benefit from the free pile-in than the LoC, so he gets to lead the battalion.

I reckon I'd rather have the Spawn than another spare CP for those 50 points.  I could instead grab a different endless spell - counting the 20 spare points, the Soulsnare Shackles, and the Spawn that I'm not committed to, that's up to 90 discretionary points I could spend.  Any recommendation?

 

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Lord Of Chaos (140)
- General
- Trait: Master of Deception
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Daemon Prince (160)
- Axe
- Artefact: Mark of the All-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (170)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 174

Cogs! That’s 60 points but gives +2” movement and add +2 to charge rolls. Great Synergy with your Slaneeshi ability to run and charge! Get everyone stuck in faster! Then turn it off and get an extra spell from your CSL from then on  

 

[amysrevenge]

I could drop the Spawn and have Cogs AND Shackles.

[Agent of Chaos]

Do it. The Spawn isn't doing much in this list and the big blocks of warriors would love the extra movement. 

[Bazakahuna]

17 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

I could drop the Spawn and have Cogs AND Shackles.

I was looking at Spawn earlier, for 50 points and with 5 wounds these offer the most Depravity Points per point  in the entire list. With Chaos Chariots a close second. Are Chaos Spawn worth fielding in large numbers with this in mind?

[amysrevenge]

2 hours ago, Bazakahuna said:

I was looking at Spawn earlier, for 50 points and with 5 wounds these offer the most Depravity Points per point  in the entire list. With Chaos Chariots a close second. Are Chaos Spawn worth fielding in large numbers with this in mind?

Depends if you're using StD or Slaanesh allegiance abilities I guess. 

[Waiyuren]

4 hours ago, Bazakahuna said:

I was looking at Spawn earlier, for 50 points and with 5 wounds these offer the most Depravity Points per point  in the entire list. With Chaos Chariots a close second. Are Chaos Spawn worth fielding in large numbers with this in mind?

Unless i missed something in the faq, only heroes generate depravity by dealing or suffering wounds. Spawn are probably far more useful in a Tzeentch list seeing as you can spawn them in for free with certain spells/abilities. I'd even consider dropping it for a command point honestly.

[amysrevenge]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:02 PM, amysrevenge said:

Here is what I'm going to run with for now. 

Local meta is that Mark of the All-favoured on a DP gives it all 4 abilities, so that's what I'm doing.  I understand that not everyone does it that way.

Two drops - Lord of Chaos and Battalion.  Can't get both DP and LoC in the same battalion, and I want both.  I intend to make use of the Run and Charge command ability (that's the only reason I choose Slaanesh), and I love the DP.  I've decided that the DP is more likely to be in position to benefit from the free pile-in than the LoC, so he gets to lead the battalion.

I reckon I'd rather have the Spawn than another spare CP for those 50 points.  I could instead grab a different endless spell - counting the 20 spare points, the Soulsnare Shackles, and the Spawn that I'm not committed to, that's up to 90 discretionary points I could spend.  Any recommendation?

 

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Lord Of Chaos (140)
- General
- Trait: Master of Deception
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Daemon Prince (160)
- Axe
- Artefact: Mark of the All-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh

Exalted Hero of Chaos (80)

-Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (170)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 174

---

---

Did a game with the above modifications - dropped a spawn, and didn't have any endless spell models handy, so I put in an Exalted Hero with the points.

Played against a MSU Sylvaneth list, and didn't have much trouble.  I had 3 hogs to camp on 3 of 4 objectives, and racked up points for the first few turns with minimal losses of the three big units.  I spread my heroes out to bust up 9" summoning available spaces which helped out a lot.

[Hounsou83]

it's look like a very good list! a solid wall of steel, i'll try it!

[amysrevenge]

The biggest weakness is that there isn't much that can do any reliable damage.  If you can get a brick into combat with the Daemonic Power buff on, it can get a lot of no rend wounds through but otherwise it's a pretty soft hitter.

[Graftonianman]

9 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

The biggest weakness is that there isn't much that can do any reliable damage.  If you can get a brick into combat with the Daemonic Power buff on, it can get a lot of no rend wounds through but otherwise it's a pretty soft hitter.

There’s  not much in a mortal army that does. Characters are pretty hard, and there’s some cool synergies with the realm artifacts. And there’s the chaos monsters. 

I’m toying with a build of warriors and allied monsters. They’re all pretty neat; 400 pts fills up fast!

[Graftonianman]

9 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

The biggest weakness is that there isn't much that can do any reliable damage.  If you can get a brick into combat with the Daemonic Power buff on, it can get a lot of no rend wounds through but otherwise it's a pretty soft hitter.

There’s  not much in a mortal army that does. Characters are pretty hard, and there’s some cool synergies with the realm artifacts. And there’s the chaos monsters. 

I’m toying with a build of warriors and allied monsters. They’re all pretty neat; 400 pts fills up fast!

[Ravinsild]

Is there any room for Chosen in such a list? Are they “hard hitters”?

3/3-1/1 I believe with mortal wound potential and 15 attacks per 5. 

When my tax return comes in (sometime in August) I’m planning on buying this list plus some nice goodies like dudes on Manticores, some Breyherds boys, a Warshrine and some other stuff, but this is the main gist: 

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord Of Chaos (140)
- Artefact: Onyx Blade 
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Terrifying Presence
- Artefact: Helm of the Oppressor  
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
1 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (100)
- Greatblade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (100)
- Greatblade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Ruinbringer Warband (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161
 

[Drib]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Is there any room for Chosen in such a list? Are they “hard hitters”?

3/3-1/1 I believe with mortal wound potential and 15 attacks per 5. 

When my tax return comes in (sometime in August) I’m planning on buying this list plus some nice goodies like dudes on Manticores, some Breyherds boys, a Warshrine and some other stuff, but this is the main gist: 

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord Of Chaos (140)
- Artefact: Onyx Blade 
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Terrifying Presence
- Artefact: Helm of the Oppressor  
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
1 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (100)
- Greatblade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (100)
- Greatblade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Ruinbringer Warband (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161
 

 

I like your general's trait and artefact choice. But I like it more with Slaanesh and some allies for the bravery bomb (and unbinds).

My list looks like this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness

Leaders
Chaos Lord On Manticore (250)
- General
- Flail & Runeshield
- Trait: Lord of Terror
- Artefact: Helm of the Oppressor
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Daemon Prince (160)
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
- Mark of Chaos: None
- Allies
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
- Allies

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 171
 

Up to -7 bravery around the general, usually -3 in a large area through knights and Khorgoraths.

[Waiyuren]

8 hours ago, Drib said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I like your general's trait and artefact choice. But I like it more with Slaanesh and some allies for the bravery bomb (and unbinds).

My list looks like this:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Slaves To Darkness

Leaders
Chaos Lord On Manticore (250)
- General
- Flail & Runeshield
- Trait: Lord of Terror
- Artefact: Helm of the Oppressor
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Daemon Prince (160)
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh

Units
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
- Mark of Chaos: None
- Allies
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
- Allies

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 171
 

Up to -7 bravery around the general, usually -3 in a large area through knights and Khorgoraths.

How are you getting -7 around the lord? -3 from him, -1 from the knights, and up to -2 from the 2 khorgoraths... What am i missing? (Nasty list btw, i like it! ?)

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, Waiyuren said:

How are you getting -7 around the lord? -3 from him, -1 from the knights, and up to -2 from the 2 khorgoraths... What am i missing? (Nasty list btw, i like it! ?)

Slaneesh Manticore Lord adds a -1 effectively as well. It’s worded differently but even so. 

 

[Drib]

It's all eggs in one basket. Might be saver to give the Helm of Opression to the Daemon Prince, so the enemy will not shut you down with only 12 Wounds dealt.

[Darkrich]

How do you guys manage to fight skeletons. I'm running into the issue where the faction lacks some power. I hit skeletons and can kill 20 or so, but then they come right back. And the spells that hit us, like -1 to hit or attacks just mean I get drowned in attacks by the skeletons I can't kill. I would like to kill the casters to stop the support, but as a melee army, I have to go through the front. I allied in a gaunt summoner to help, but Arkhan is a better caster and saves his dispel attempts to shut down the gaunt summoner. 

[amysrevenge]

We need something that is equivalent to Kurnoth Hunters, or Ironguts, or others of that ilk.  Small-ish footprint, fast-ish moving, hard hitter.  That's the thing that's really missing from StD right now.

Anyone have any ideas for an ally that could be that?  A couple Khorgoraths maybe (are they even on our ally list? I've never checked)?

 

ETA:  Bullgors maybe?  Ultimately they are one step too weak for what I want - either +1 to hit or +1A would make the difference.  But it might be worth a try to throw some in.

Edited August 2, 2018 by amysrevenge

[Darkrich]

I haven't tried varanguard yet either. Slaves are pretty good at taking hits, so a strong unit like varanguard might do it.