AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Warbossironteef]

Hi Garxia. I think a lot of your questions vary based on the type of list you are trying to build. Also my answers below are very basic answers/observations built up from a long history of miniwar gaming/40k. Mileage may vary. 

 

-Dreadblades per point aren't terrible. The issue is they compete with other Leaders who provide buffs and support. Dreadblades don't offer that.

-The size of your Grimghast will depend on your list. I would tend to go with the full size. Discounted and more staying power. Also don't forget that a lot of buffs/spells affect ONE unit. So it is often better to have max unit size to get the most out of those buffs (Mounted Knight of shrouds for example).

-Banshees are definitely good on paper, but their 1 base attack is not ideal. +4 to hit is unreliable. If you can make them work and get extra attacks from eating spells, they will feel amazing, otherwise I would say you might be disappointed. They are probably sometimes going to be very powerful or a little weak. I would run them in a unit of 8 or 12 imo. -2 rend and d3 dmg is no joke, but when you do the dice math on 1 attack hitting on 4's you have to put in some work or eat a spell to make their variance work in your favor.

-Cogs depends on your list. Aggro lists love Cogs, but they are not an auto include imo. Although don't forget about the casting bonus as well. Cogs can be great at keeping a caster a live, especially because of Ethereal. 

-Depends on the list. Our buffing leaders are great. IMO you want to always fit in as many buffs as you can. GoS and Spirit Torment buffs are great.

-Depends on the list. GoS are one of our best heroes for a lot of lists. Spell casters are always strong and being able to cast 2 spells (Lady O) is a super strong abilitiy in AoS. I also think the Midnight Tome is very very good, which can give you even more casters.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Warbossironteef

[Neck-Romantic]

Cogs are quite amazing for us. Cast them turn 1 for either Pendant induced or deepstrike charges, then swap to extra spellcast and defense setting.

I've found Dreadblades to be extremely underwhelming in practice, as no one leaves their objectives unmanned in my meta and they arent particularly intimidating in melee...pound for pound Cairn Wraiths do better.

Myrmourns have to be played intelligently and set up for a coup de grace on a high-threat enemy. Use them surgically to cut the head off the snake.

[Warbossironteef]

Below are graphs for 8 Myrmourns against a +4 armor unit. The first graph is base 8 attacks and the second graph is if they eat a spell.  You can see how big of a difference their output is when you get the 2 attacks. 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Warbossironteef

[Neck-Romantic]

Dont forget you can eat your own endless spells with them as well. I think you can get the move/chsrge bonus out of cogs and eat it same turn and have the buff still apply....

[Warbossironteef]

Not the most efficient use of an endless spell, considering it is gone and you kill 1-3 Banshes but definitely creative.

[Nevar]

3 hours ago, Garxia said:

I'm in the process of finishing my army, but can't find a lot of battle reports of Nighthaunt, so I'm asking  for opinions/experiences from some battlefield experienced generals here.

We're talking about 2000 pt matched play:

- Why nobody plays Dreadblade Harrows? Are they bad? Better options?

- Are 20 Grimghast Reapers enough or it's worth it to get the full 30 unit?

- Myrnmourn Banshees looks great, but are they worth it in an all comers list?

- Are Cogs mandatory on non- Deahtriders lists? 

- How may heroes are enough in a 2000 pts list? I find 3 too few, but 4 are tricky to get points for.

- Are 2-3 wizards/spellcasters enough?

I know a lot of these questions are hard to answer in a vacuum, but it will be very helpful to get some ideas about these units and spells.

Thanks in advance.

Dreadblades are very good, but they are not as fancy or flashy as Olynder nor give out the buffs people are trying to get from other heroes.  Dreadblades offer mobility above all else, and in a faction where we are already pretty fast/mobile people value them less than they deserve.  Don't underestimate the power of your general teleporting at will and then drawing a unit to his location for new charges or sudden objective seizes.  Like the Cairn Wraith, Dreadblades are extremely good for their points, but unless you have a specific purpose in mind for them, they lack the passive synergies or outright damage of other options.

Might as well take 30 Grims.  20 is enough, but 30 is better.  NOVA just took place and the placing Death lists had double block of Grims.

Myrmourns are outstanding, and in relation to your other question, helps reduce the number of mages you need.

Cogs is not mandatory.  They are good, but they also give your enemy a +2" movement not just you.  Sometimes our own inherent mobility is more than enough.  The main reason for Cogs, is because we Deepstrike forces behind enemy lines, and a 9" charge is difficult.  COgs makes that charge a roll of a 7 on d6 instead of a 9.  Once we are in the fight, how much our enemy can move becomes less important.

I use 2 heroes in 1000 points, and most of my lists at 2000 include four or five.  Three can be enough if you bring Myrmourns to help cover your magical defense though.

2-3 wizards is more than enough I imagine.  I only have two in all my lists, one Guardian of Souls and then a hero bearing the Midnight Tome.  Myrmourns can provide unbind support in the form of a unit.

[Neck-Romantic]

About the dreadblade teleportation; his shenanigans cost a command point, and that is about the end of his usefullness. Using him as a teleporting buff/debuf/hero healer with midnight tome is about the only other thing Ive been able to do, but that usually also puts him out of Lookout Sir range as well....

As for the tactic of eating your own endless; the fact that it is all done in your own turn is the strength there. MKoS + dispell = 3 attacks base with nothing your opponent can do about it and you can control exactly when it happens. Add in Olynder's curse for +1 to hit and you can put some serious hurt

Edited September 6, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Warbossironteef]

If you eat your own cogs and lose 3 banshes you just ate 120 points... I wouldn't risk it for the biscuit.

[Dracothjay]

4 hours ago, Garxia said:

I'm in the process of finishing my army, but can't find a lot of battle reports of Nighthaunt, so I'm asking  for opinions/experiences from some battlefield experienced generals here.

We're talking about 2000 pt matched play:

- Why nobody plays Dreadblade Harrows? Are they bad? Better options?

- Are 20 Grimghast Reapers enough or it's worth it to get the full 30 unit?

- Myrnmourn Banshees looks great, but are they worth it in an all comers list?

- Are Cogs mandatory on non- Deahtriders lists? 

- How may heroes are enough in a 2000 pts list? I find 3 too few, but 4 are tricky to get points for.

- Are 2-3 wizards/spellcasters enough?

I know a lot of these questions are hard to answer in a vacuum, but it will be very helpful to get some ideas about these units and spells.

Thanks in advance.

Dreadblade harrows I don’t know, perhaps it’s not too aggressive!? 

20 grimghast reapers usually last me the whole game. 30 would add more flexibility in terms of soaking up wounds. If your including 2 units of reapers then go 2x20. If you are including 1 unit then go 30.

banshees are amazing, but only in units of at least 8. 

We are quite a fast army as it is, also with our deep striking capability, but cogs could add more speed, but not a crucial addition.

i like to take as many heros as possible, to cover deathless saves, synergy bubbles etc. In 2K games I always bring olynder and guardian of souls. Good spell threat and Olynder is a beast in all aspects.

hope this helps, but at the end of the day it’s all down to personal preference so come up with lists that suite your style.

[dmorley21]

On 9/5/2018 at 2:34 PM, Dracothjay said:

How does everyone feel about deathstalkers battallion? Every time I look through my book and see this battallion I have a dire need to want to build towards it. The fact you can mark an enemy unit and then drop onto them is amazing. + olynder in the list can make for some nasty shenanigans.

 

thoughts?

I think it has some potential, especially if there's always something you want to alpha strike in your meta. If you take it, I'd see Reikenor and Chronomantic Cogs being a must as you really want to make sure you get that deep strike charge off against the unit/model you want. I'm considering building a Shrieker Host at 2k that acts similarly.

However, I heavn't really considered running that battalion because Glavewraith Stalkers are such a weird unit that just don't really fit with the rest of the army.

20 hours ago, Nevar said:

I also think 20 and 5 Bladegeists are the way to go to leave you room for other things.  I have played around with the idea of 40 of them, but I do not own that many.  As to the success of it, I can report that I have had outstanding success with it, nearly unshiftable and mulches a lot of enemy units similarly to a Grave Guard block does.

I'm on the fence about building toward Shroudguard or Shrieker Host, but am leaning toward the Shrieker Host partially because I think Shroudguard will end up being very common. If I were building the unit, I would go for units of 20 and 10. I think 5 is just too small for them to be effective in any capacity.

Also, I find it odd that Myrmoruns were sold out for weeks as I haven't seen them in many lists. I know they were, and I bought two boxes myself, but I really haven't seen many people talking about actually using them.

8 hours ago, Garxia said:

- Are Cogs mandatory on non- Deahtriders lists?

I can't answer most of your questions as I still haven't played my first game, but this one I feel like I can.

Cogs (and Reikenor IMO) are necessary if you want to attempt a deep strike charge. Reikenor with his candles is the most likely to get the spell cast, and the extra 2" on the charge means you only need to roll a 7 to successfully charge a unit, instead of a 9. That's very significant.

However, if you're building an army where you don't care as much if you can charge on the turn you deep strike, then it's not necessary at all.

Edited September 6, 2018 by dmorley21

[GeneralZero]

13 hours ago, Nevar said:

Don't underestimate the power of your general teleporting at will and then drawing a unit to his location for new charges or sudden objective seizes

how do you draw a unit like this? teleport himself is ok.  But the other unit????

[Spears]

The generic command ability in the battletome.

[Mikeymajq]

That combo is the single reason I like the Harrows.  Plus the model is kinda cool.

But why does it come in a box of two? XD

 

[Warbossironteef]

In terms of Tournament lists/competitive units can we get a healthy discussion going about the Black Coach? Mine is in the mail and I'm pumped. When I look at the stats two things stick out to me. 1st is this thing is super durable and can be a great, "hey look at me!" unit to distract the enemy from our important, squishy leaders. It is also self-sufficient, which is a huge deal because it go hunting backfield units. 2nd thing is the number of attacks it has and its movement. It is set up to be a great objective clearer. 

I honestly think it is so well rounded. It's durable, fast, reliable, can deal mortal wounds, gets better as the game goes on, and even offers utility. I think it will be the lynchpin of most of my lists. To me it is extremelly important to force your opponent to make tough decisions in terms of targeting important units. This is a non-leader, durable, self-sufficient one which is the compliment we desperately need to our utility leaders.

Am I wrong? If people who use them would like to comment, I’d love to hear from you. 

[Neck-Romantic]

4 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

That combo is the single reason I like the Harrows.  Plus the model is kinda cool.

But why does it come in a box of two? XD

 

I know right? I love the Harrow models and painted them up and now dont really plan to use them

@Warbossironteef the coach is pretty amazing, not to mention rediculously fast and eventually able to detach from fights and charge same turn as Bladegheists do. And it is part of arguably one of our best detqchments as well....

But I dont plan on getting one as Im butthurt that its so much better than the Mourngul while being cheaper!!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Mikeymajq]

I'm building my Black coach atm. I may need to take another look at its warscroll because to me it struck me as a kind of harassment unit that does a bit of support as well?

I got 10 hexwraiths to build too (originally intended as Black Knights for my Deathrattle force of LoN).  But with the coach, I just want more multi-wound models to bring back

 

[Neck-Romantic]

Thinking about doing Reikenor without the wings... all the ghosts fly anyway I dont get why his horse has wings (mounted nightmare from oldhammer I guess)

[Kirjava13]

He's not nearly as impressive (or difficult to transport... ?) without the wings!

[Neck-Romantic]

Think he'd fit with the mkos and harrows/hexes better tho

[Luke1705]

Has anyone been using bladegheist revenants? They seem pretty legit

[Nevar]

On 9/6/2018 at 7:12 PM, dmorley21 said:

I'm on the fence about building toward Shroudguard or Shrieker Host, but am leaning toward the Shrieker Host partially because I think Shroudguard will end up being very common. If I were building the unit, I would go for units of 20 and 10. I think 5 is just too small for them to be effective in any capacity.

Five Bladegesits can easily mop up support heroes and warmachines.  They can capture objectives, and with the way pile-in works, they can assault the unit your main blob attacked from the opposite direction to force pile in troubles for the opponent.  Used right, they can literally force whole groups of the enemy unit from piling in and attacking at all simply by engaging the unit on a different side.

10 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Thinking about doing Reikenor without the wings... all the ghosts fly anyway I dont get why his horse has wings (mounted nightmare from oldhammer I guess)

I removed the wings because I hate the pegesus look.  He is a ghost horse already why does he have wings?

[Neck-Romantic]

Swapped his scythe for a nightmare lantern eh? Not bad at all

[Kirjava13]

I actually wish the model came with something other than a weapon- it makes me think he's a melee hero and then I throw him into 20 Dryads...

[Neck-Romantic]

He can help in a pinch, and is fast enough to zoom around picking off support heroes while zapping ppl with his spell but yeah if he gets caught hes going down

Edited September 9, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Greasygeek]

Now I know many of you don’t care much about the Lord Executioner and the Executioner Horde battalion and since I don’t care much for tournements I might be all noob about this but have any of you considered arming the Lord Executioner with the Blade of Endings? Combined with the EH battalion that turns the LE into a mean fella with 3 attacks at+2 dam for each 5+ to hit or 6 to wound? Combine that with Lady Olynder’s spell and its 4+ to hit.

Not sure about the math here but the Blade of Endings alone gives him a max damage output of 24! At rend -2. 

In all fairness the max damage hit probably happen on the samme day you accidentaly stumble upon a million bucks left and forgotten while someone discovered a cure for cancer and a simple solution on how to end global warming just by getting rid of mosqeetoes and printers. On that very day your boss will award your employee of the month and your girlfriend will tell your that she always wanted you to kiss with her twinsister. However none of this won’t steal you away from that special moment when a simple 80pt Lord Executioner murdered 12 Stormcast  in a single combat!