AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[lare2]

Zero mention if the new dude allows a 5+ mortal wound shrug as well. That faq can't come soon enough. 

[lare2]

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Also doesn’t feature enough units of banshees for the battalion.

Bloody hell. That's a rookie error - didn't even spot that. 

[EnixLHQ]

11 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Good post! But surely Neferata is also an option as an ally. I mean, probably not the most intersting one, since one of her major abilities is to make units ethereal, but still.

While Nagash (975 points) and Neferata (365 points) are listed in the Pitched Battle Profiles at the end of the book, their warscrolls aren't. My summary was based solely on the book.

Nagash is too many points to be included as an ally (though we may be told he can be included under the battle trait Supreme Lord of the Undead like he is for Soulblight Gravelords, which makes him an allegiant general in addition to your army). Neferata, though, does have an updated warscroll on GW. She has the keyword Deathlords, so she can still be an ally to us right now.

But, a general note on allies from this faction, assuming we can eventually ally with Soulblight Gravelords:

I'm noticing a lot of their abilities now specifically target other Soulblight Gravelord units. For example, Neferata's Dark Mist spell specifically targets "1 friendly Soulblight Gravelord unit." Her Command Ability Twilight's Allure does as well. The Necromancer's Vanhel's Danse Macabre now targets "1 friendly Soulblight Gravelords Summonable unit." The Vampire Lord? Crimson Feast, which was one reason to take him as an ally, giving +1 attacks to a friendly unit from your hero phase to your next (way longer than our KoSoES's similar CA) also targets "1 friendly Soulblight Gravelords Summonable unit." Even the Mortis Engine isn't immune to this; while the Reliquary ability (once a battle, do D3 mortals to everything within 12") ignores all Death units, the Bound Necromancer ability (+1 to casting rolls) targets "friendly Soulblight Gravelords Wizards." The Coven Throne, same deal.

So if you brought any of the above, half or more of their warscroll becomes useless unless you bring other Soulblight Gravelord units with them. 

In fact, the only warscroll abilities I can see that could benefit non-Soulblight units positively are:

• Belladamma Volga (200+135 points for Dire Wolves}: who's spell can add Dire Wolves to the game, and who's CA targets Dire Wolves
• Radukar the Wolf (too expensive to ally if taken as the set required in SG): has an ability that targets Kosargi Nightguard units
• Radukar the Beast (315+135 for wolves, thus too expensive): CA target's Dire Wolves
• Gorslav the Gravekeeper (too expensive to ally if taken as the set required in SG): Ability targets Deadwalkers and CA targets Summonable Deadwalkers
• Torgillius the Chaimberlain (too expensive to ally if taken as the set required in SG): Ability looks for Radukar the Wolf
• Watch Captain Halgrim (too expensive to ally if taken as the set required in SG): CA targets Deathrattle
• Kosargi Nightguard (too expensive to ally if taken as the set required in SG): Ability looks for Radukar the Wolf
• Bloodseeker Palanquin (290+a vampire, lowest being 95 for Kritza, Lady Annika for 110 being the only other option before being too expensive): Ability targets Vampire units
• Deadwalker Zombies (115): ability generates more Deadwalker Zombie models
• Corpse Cart w/Lodestone (80+115 for some Zombies): While the magic enhancing ability requires SG, the save enhancing one only needs Deadwalker Zombies
• White King (115+85 for some Skeletons): CA targets Deathrattle
• White King on Skeletal Steed (130+85): CA targets Deathrattle

All of the above target those specific keywords, not "Soulblight Gravelords X." So they could offer those to allied matching units, if for some reason we could only ally with a keyword and not the faction.

However, there are plenty of offensive or self-buffing abilities that might be worth considering, though. Lots of units under 200/400 that could make great allies on their own, even though they'd offer nothing to the army their joining. Blood Knights for 120 each, for example. Varghests for 155. Terrorghest for 305. They'd have to be pretty strong picks to replace Nighthaunt units, in my opinion.

Edited May 20, 2021 by EnixLHQ

[Tzeentchmike]

6 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

@EnixLHQ

Also doesn’t feature enough units of banshees for the battalion. Clearly someone who didn’t understand the nuances of the book. There’s a lot of rules and armies in this game - even the best players can misunderstand books they’re not familiar with. 

Unfortunately it was just an editing mistake as trying to create the list in warscroll builder before it was updated with new points and battalions. The list is 8 banshees and 4 banshees and a knight of shroud on foot instead of on steed. I was on autopilot with the unit of 12 banshees and command trait so sorry about that 

[EnixLHQ]

30 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Unfortunately it was just an editing mistake as trying to create the list in warscroll builder before it was updated with new points and battalions. The list is 8 banshees and 4 banshees and a knight of shroud on foot instead of on steed. I was on autopilot with the unit of 12 banshees and command trait so sorry about that 

You're that Mike?

I'd love to know how you'd play that list. Or any new list from Nighthaunt. As a playtester, did you test Nighthaunt? And if so, against what?

How are we looking ahead or perhaps during AoS 3.0 before we get a new battletome?

I know you can't offer anything that's behind an NDA, but I'd love to hear your personal opinions.

[dmorley21]

40 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Unfortunately it was just an editing mistake as trying to create the list in warscroll builder before it was updated with new points and battalions. The list is 8 banshees and 4 banshees and a knight of shroud on foot instead of on steed. I was on autopilot with the unit of 12 banshees and command trait so sorry about that 

Sorry if I came out a bit harsh, but thanks for responding! 

[JCar09]

9 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

For reference:

These lists come from a couple prominent players, one of which is a former grandmaster and the other a current playtester. Interesting. I'd love to see how they'd handle the lists.

Look at the second one, the list with Emerald Host. They dodged the whole locked-in Command Trait and didn't take Lord of the Host. Typo? Shenanigans? I'd like to see something about that.

Michael, go next tournie with this list plz! I want see this 5 harrydans in action!!!

[Tzeentchmike]

9 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Sorry if I came out a bit harsh, but thanks for responding! 

No not harsh but its always best to talk through errors 

[Tzeentchmike]

7 hours ago, JCar09 said:

Michael, go next tournie with this list plz! I want see this 5 harrydans in action!!!

I used 20 in the last tournament I went to before covid, they were a solid unit then and have improved with the new scroll

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

While Nagash (975 points) and Neferata (365 points) are listed in the Pitched Battle Profiles at the end of the book, their warscrolls aren't. My summary was based solely on the book.

I think you are working from the same imgur album as the rest of us. For reference: Both Nagash and Neferata are in the actual book (or at least got warscroll updates on the web store already)

[Tzeentchmike]

11 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

You're that Mike?

I'd love to know how you'd play that list. Or any new list from Nighthaunt. As a playtester, did you test Nighthaunt? And if so, against what?

How are we looking ahead or perhaps during AoS 3.0 before we get a new battletome?

I know you can't offer anything that's behind an NDA, but I'd love to hear your personal opinions.

The list revolves around the big hexwraiths units taking on what ever needs to be hit hard. Olyander with her defensive shrugg can now chuck herself into the middle of any battlefield so she can maximise her mortal wound damage. The smaller units are just great at harassing small characters and units which become separated from the main army. They are also cheap objectives scorers so you don't need to commit your army turn 1 unless you want to. 

Unfortunately you will have to wait and see about AoS 3, hopefully not too long to wait.

[Bayul]

2 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Unfortunately you will have to wait and see about AoS 3, hopefully not too long to wait.

So was this list written with 3.0 in mind? Do you actually think that Lady Olynder, Hexwraiths and Harridans will have an impact on upcoming tournaments? That's the purpose of Metawatch articles, right?

[Tzeentchmike]

14 minutes ago, Bayul said:

So was this list written with 3.0 in mind? Do you actually think that Lady Olynder, Hexwraiths and Harridans will have an impact on upcoming tournaments? That's the purpose of Metawatch articles, right?

Metawatch articles are concerning the current meta.

[Bayul]

9 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Metawatch articles are concerning the current meta.

Oh. Right.

So when I head over to TTT those two NH lists might appear in tournaments in may and june? Seraphon, KO and DoK lists need to be prepared for them?

I'm not a competitive meta player myself. Just asking out of curiosity.

[dmorley21]

4 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Oh. Right.

So when I head over to TTT those two NH lists might appear in tournaments in may and june? Seraphon, KO and DoK lists need to be prepared for them?

I'm not a competitive meta player myself. Just asking out of curiosity.

Are you somewhere that still can’t play in person? One day events and club nights have been ramping back up here in the US. 
 

Also, meta watch articles are not typically targeted at the hyper competitive crowd. They are mainly targeted at players who go to tournaments every now and then. If Nighthaunt become more popular, then they are an army that you need to be aware of just due to ignoring rend and their movement. And the article just focuses on lists that may come out of BR: Be’Lakor, so I think you’re being a little harsh.

@Tzeentchmike

If you play that list, I’ll be interested to hear how it goes. I’ve been running the Death Riders battalion in Emerald Host and find those two together do make Hexwraiths a true threat. 

[Tzeentchmike]

5 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Are you somewhere that still can’t play in person? One day events and club nights have been ramping back up here in the US. 
 

Also, meta watch articles are not typically targeted at the hyper competitive crowd. They are mainly targeted at players who go to tournaments every now and then. If Nighthaunt become more popular, then they are an army that you need to be aware of just due to ignoring rend and their movement. And the article just focuses on lists that may come out of BR: Be’Lakor, so I think you’re being a little harsh.

@Tzeentchmike

If you play that list, I’ll be interested to hear how it goes. I’ve been running the Death Riders battalion in Emerald Host and find those two together do make Hexwraiths a true threat. 

Yes the deathriders and emerald host works so well together  if i was going to an event tomorrow which allowed it something like below would be my first choice 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

- Procession: Emerald Host

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of the Host
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Knight of Shrouds (100)
- Artefact: The Traitor Knight's Blade

Battleline
15 x Hexwraiths (390)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Behemoths
Black Coach (220)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)
Chainguard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

[Tzeentchmike]

17 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Oh. Right.

So when I head over to TTT those two NH lists might appear in tournaments in may and june? Seraphon, KO and DoK lists need to be prepared for them?

I'm not a competitive meta player myself. Just asking out of curiosity.

Nighthaunt have the capacity to win against most armies especially in the scenarios. The battleline options are great and now with the emerald host you can keep your dreadblade alive for the hero missions . They are definately more competitive than people make them out to be which can catch people out.

[lare2]

1 hour ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Words

Nice one - good to have your input. Thanks for that. Although you haven't chosen him, what's your opinion of the Krulghast Cruciator? There's a lot of debate whether or not his ability allows a 5+ shrug for wounds and mortal wounds. The terminology uses is ambiguous when looking at the mortals. Cheers in advance. 

[Tzeentchmike]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

Nice one - good to have your input. Thanks for that. Although you haven't chosen him, what's your opinion of the Krulghast Cruciator? There's a lot of debate whether or not his ability allows a 5+ shrug for wounds and mortal wounds. The terminology uses is ambiguous when looking at the mortals. Cheers in advance. 

Think the last sentence in the mortal wounds sorts it out. He is ok but dosent justify his inclusion over other units for me. But it is now an option that nighthaunt have.

[EnixLHQ]

2 minutes ago, Tzeentchmike said:

Think the last sentence in the mortal wounds sorts it out. He is ok but dosent justify his inclusion over other units for me. But it is now an option that nighthaunt have.

I guess the better question is: if you've used the Cruciator, did you save against both wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+ when his ability was active?

We ran into a debate a few pages back.

At any rate, thanks for responding. As a faction, we're always very eager for information and advice.

[Sception]

Ward saves happen before/while a wound or mortal wound is being allocated, not after.  That line is saying a model still dies when the total wounds and mortal wounds together it has taken are equal to its wounds characteristic, and that inflicted mortal wounds can be healed the same way as regular wounds.  It isn't saying that saves and other abilities that can prevent wounds from being allocated in the first place also work on mortal wounds.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Sception

[JustAsPlanned]

So with 3e coming soon, it’ll mean that we’re getting a new (hopefully better written) Battletome, and with that a new subfaction or two.  What would y’all hope to see in them? We already have the Emerald Host (Olynder’s army, very Banshee and Hexwraith focused) and Reikenor’s Condemned (buffed up Glaivewraiths and Chainrasps), so there’s still a fair amount of design space to work with without treading on too many toes.

[EnixLHQ]

42 minutes ago, JustAsPlanned said:

So with 3e coming soon, it’ll mean that we’re getting a new (hopefully better written) Battletome, and with that a new subfaction or two.  What would y’all hope to see in them? We already have the Emerald Host (Olynder’s army, very Banshee and Hexwraith focused) and Reikenor’s Condemned (buffed up Glaivewraiths and Chainrasps), so there’s still a fair amount of design space to work with without treading on too many toes.

I want to see one that leans heavily on mortal wound output. Something that gives Spirit Hosts a buff, that gives Frightful Touch to more units, and generally ups our damage potential.

Another that focuses on magic, recasting and twin-casting, casting protection. Not to compete on the magic meta, but to give our existing spells more utility. Shademisting multiple units, Spectral Lure with a bonus, a secondary magical form of model return.

[EnixLHQ]

The Azyr app just updated. Here are our official allies:

[Pyrk]

I've found your beginner's guide pretty helpful - have you considered adding an allies section?