AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Kharl]

I played a 20 men tournament last weekend with the Eternal conflagrations list with Fatemaster and went 2-1 but should be 3-0 without a huge miss play and miss counting...

anyway this list is very competitive but lack of fun and strategy. If you have a double turn with your flamers shooting it is over. 
 

Working now on others lists, I was wondering how it works when taking slaves to darkness units...I saw very interesting starting point from @Gwendar but what about chaos warriors? Do they have the benefit of Tzeentch mark (reroll save 1) when being close to a tzeentch hero? In addition they could receive the ability from the sorcerer...

about be’lakor, you cannot give him a tzeentch spell right?

[Gwendar]

55 minutes ago, Kharl said:

anyway this list is very competitive but lack of fun and strategy. If you have a double turn with your flamers shooting it is over. 
 

Working now on others lists, I was wondering how it works when taking slaves to darkness units...I saw very interesting starting point from @Gwendar but what about chaos warriors? Do they have the benefit of Tzeentch mark (reroll save 1) when being close to a tzeentch hero? In addition they could receive the ability from the sorcerer...

about be’lakor, you cannot give him a tzeentch spell right?

Biggest reason I seldom run my Conflag Changehost list.. you nearly always dictate them getting T1 and if you get the double that's usually game. Not fun for anyone; casual or competitive player irregardless. Definitely something fun to take against your local "that guy" though 😉

They won't gain any StD abilities if they're played under Tzeentch which is where I assume that "RR 1's to save" you're talking about is coming from. They would get marked Tzeentch which gives them that keyword and thus they would be affected by things that affect Tzeentch units, but not anything that affects "Tzeentch Daemon" or "Tzeentch Arcanite" units. They're nice little anvils and I think they have a place in that regard.. but for damage I would look elsewhere. Even 20 with Halberds, +1 attack and RR hits\wounds from a Sorc Lord isn't doing much better than 20 Tzaangors (counting only the mutants and Greatblades getting into combat).

As for Be'lakor, that is correct. He cannot be marked Tzeentch like a Sorcerer Lord can and thus he can only be taken as an ally and not able to take a Tzeentch Spell.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Gwendar

[RUNCMD]

@Gwendar so I played it last night on TTS v Lumineth and wow.... was that an interesting game!

First up I forgot a lot of what I was meant to be doing, again lol, no surprise there. Ive used AOS Reminders before, but like you I just forget to even read that tbh and also I just hate having to read heaps of walls of text. SO, to combat this, Ive decided Ill write my own AOS reminders, but in a more step sequence of events due to knowing mostly what everything in my list "does" its more the order of things im messing up! So Ill see how that goes!

The game however was close but rough! We played total commitment and whilst I really liked the board setup For Tzeentch, its a great way for us to deploy far back and also hold our own objectives for longer, it was also pretty brutal in the sense of what lumineth can do! It was my first time playing them and I was really impressed at the tools they have! Big T can cast a spell to make you spend 2 CP whenever you want to use one - in my list last night I kept forgetting to roll the 4+ extra CP and when I did I didnt get it anyway, brooootal - and then my fatemaster got shot off anyway by the 20 or so shooty Aelves WHO GET LINE OF SIGHT ON A WHOLE UNIT IF THE LEADER CAN SEE IT! That blew my mind! Then they a spell i think to be able to pass bravery on a 2 up then pass all slain models onto a unit of their choice to lower that units bravery as well. I think my Enlightened were -26 bravery at one point? MENTAL! But also just another thing to have to learnt o play around.

Because of GOS I managed to get two LOCs on the board pretty quickly which was nice and there were some awesome clutch rolls that if I had of made would have killed Teclis but he managed to survive and also my opponent managed to win the game by Turn 5, so it was a great game overall and Tzeentch has a few answers to the amazing casting that Lumineth can do, but I think one of the best Covens for that would def be Hosts Arcanum, getting the auto unbinds when you need them!

Got a game on Friday that will be IRL so will test my GOS list against Slaanesh I believe. Never played them before so will see how it goes and also do some more tweaks.

One thing I like about the GOS list was the auto pass bravery on the Kairics, but learnt that its not that great to have my pinks in range for it if you have a banner, so keeping them just out to force a Battleshock is well worth it if you have the DD!

Ill be focusing on this list for the immediate future until my tournament thats coming up, then ill be focusing on different lists/covens to play in.

[Gwendar]

@RUNCMD Honestly, I always did the same with any army I played and I've also been considering going back to writing my own. I just color-coded units and super-condensed down the rules (like CV 8, 18": d3 MW's, chaos spawn within 3" of unit if model dies) that I can glance at quickly rather than having to read the whole rule like aosreminders does. Taking an hour or 2 to bold, underline and italicize everything helps so much more 🤣

Lumineth is rough.. but they aren't OP by any means and I actually find them quite balanced overall. 100% agree however that the 30" line of sight ignoring Sentinels that put out 10+ MW's is absurd.. something needs to change with that in the Winter FAQ. Teclis with his spell through a Spellportal can also be tough for people but at least that can be worked around with strong unbinds. Unfortunately, I think they're going to fall into that same "there's barely any units in this book and some aren't great" category and you'll see the same 1-2 things.

My Idoneth game is on Sunday.. trying to chill out tonight but I'm 100% going to try to get a game in Thursday\Friday or 2 on Saturday. Good luck with your next one.

[RUNCMD]

22 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I just color-coded units and super-condensed down the rules (like CV 8, 18": d3 MW's, chaos spawn within 3" of unit if model dies) that I can glance at quickly rather than having to read the whole rule like aosreminders does.

Basically this mate. I'll be doing the same. So much easier. Yep takes time but hey, worth it.

Yeah Lumineth are rough but by playing more and more games against more and more armies and different people, i'm learning that nothing is "Broken" as such, just mechanics are a bit OP and that overall, it all comes down to how well you know the game and also how to play it, with any army.

Good luck with your Game and let us know how you go!

[MitGas]

I like that Lumineth are out - finally an army where Screamers are a very solid choice. And if they field Teclis, you just gotta give ol' Be'Lakor a spot to shine.

[Verminlord]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:48 AM, MitGas said:

I like that Lumineth are out - finally an army where Screamers are a very solid choice. And if they field Teclis, you just gotta give ol' Be'Lakor a spot to shine.

Speaking of screamers, is their a good core to build from for an Arcanum list? Shark battleline vs pinks? min size sharks vs bigger units? How few flamers can I get away with?

Edited October 10, 2020 by Verminlord

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Verminlord said:

Speaking of screamers, is their a good core to build from for an Arcanum list? Shark battleline vs pinks? min size sharks vs bigger units? How few flamers can I get away with?

I don't rate Screamers highly usually so I wouldn't use too many. Personally I think they're just very good versus certain Lumineth lists (with their units being wizards, the mass shooting that could kill more important units and the like). You just need the small units of Screamers to distract them (and not give them the chance to shoot something else) so to speak as once your other daemons are in range those puny Aelfs are toast anyways. Flamers and Pinks outdmg them, we just lack the range - and if they shoot at your screamer unit, it's gone anyways. So IMO that speaks against bigger units of them unless you plan to take down Teclis or whole units with them (but then they'll get attention and sniped).

Edited October 10, 2020 by MitGas

[Tizianolol]

Guys about destiny dice.  The book says you can replace a single dice roll.  Can i replace like 2 dice to hit and 2 dice to wound in the same turn potentially?:)

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys about destiny dice.  The book says you can replace a single dice roll.  Can i replace like 2 dice to hit and 2 dice to wound in the same turn potentially?:)

Yes, you can. Just keep in mind with 2d6 rolls you would need to replace both dice, not just 1.

[Kharl]

Working on a fun list, does Kairos have access to infernal gateway of LoC if he is wholly at 18’ from him?

Edited October 11, 2020 by Kharl

[Elevenist]

Are pink horrors worth their points if you don't have any blues for the split?

[Gwendar]

31 minutes ago, Kharl said:

Working on a fun list, does Kairos have access to infernal gateway of LoC if he is wholly at 18’ from him?

No, because that spell requires a damage chart to be used:

 

7 minutes ago, Elevenist said:

Are pink horrors worth their points if you don't have any blues for the split?

Not at all. You would be paying 220 points for 10 wounds when you could pay 200 for twice as much with a better save by using 20 Kairic Acolytes and be able to get a spellcast out of them for longer since both lose their ability to do so the moment they drop under 9 models.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Gwendar

[Elevenist]

21 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

 

Not at all. You would be paying 220 points for 10 wounds when you could pay 200 for twice as much with a better save by using 20 Kairic Acolytes and be able to get a spellcast out of them for longer since both lose their ability to do so the moment they drop under 9 models.

That's a pity, because I cant use Acolytes in two game systems. What about their ability to cause a MW on a 5+ on death?

Edited October 11, 2020 by Elevenist

[Gwendar]

3 minutes ago, Elevenist said:

That's a pity, because I cant use Acolytes in two game systems.

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "you need 2 boxes of Blues per 1 box of Pinks" and it just means I have to transport\paint so much extra.. but it's pretty necessary if you want to run them. It's a big reason I generally only run 10 Pinks and fill the rest with Acolytes or Screamers.

[RUNCMD]

Yeah @Gwendar nailed it really @Elevenist. Pinks are great for a competitive system, but the worst thing is that even when they split and split again, you still have to add whatever models died to the battleshock they have to take, which is brutal when you think about a screen of 20 might run if something hard hitting charges it!

I've resulted to running one as a screen only now and also to get an extra spell in if I'm given first turn but usually I run acolytes at the present. Honestly, for 150 Points you can get more value (In my opinion) for a blob of 20 Acolytes, 1 unit of 20 Maruaders, 1 blob of 10 Chaos Warriors or even 1 blob of 20 Bestigors which comes in at 240 points but man do they hit hard! Thy also have terrible bravery though lol.

[Tizianolol]

@Gwendarwhat do you think about add tz shaman and 6 enghlighted on disc instead skyfire and blue scribes? 

[Gwendar]

10 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

@Gwendarwhat do you think about add tz shaman and 6 enghlighted on disc instead skyfire and blue scribes? 

You'll have to remind me what list we're talking about.. been awhile 😅. I assume you mean the Magic-based Hosts Duplicitous one?

I would be incredibly hesitant to ever consider swapping out the Blue Scribes for a Shaman to be honest. Having that 2+ to cast a spell is so good, even if it can't use DD. The Shaman is going to give them +1 to hit which can amount to another 5-8 damage on average but.. I would still rather have the Scribes, but that's a preference I think. Up to you.. but I don't think he's necessary.

As for the Enlightened, I really don't like them.. but I know most people do. I find them difficult to use and often times they'll have lost 1-2 models at least before they get their RR's which kills their damage quite a bit and the RR's don't make up for it. Skyfires can threaten small heroes and chaff units while the magic does most of the work. Again, that's just preference. If you like Enlightened then by all means use them; they are technically better and the list lacks a melee punch if we're talking about the right one. 😉

[Asimov]

Hello everyone!

It has been more than a year that I played my tzeentch. Did not even try the new BT...

Could you please give me a list or two that works well? And the big scheme of play that goes with it?

Want to try to avoid the full flamer (I have the models but not mounted yet)

Thank you in advance!

[HMB]

is there a good way to run a Tzeentch arcanites list?

[RUNCMD]

14 minutes ago, HMB said:

is there a good way to run a Tzeentch arcanites list?

Yeah, plenty of ways. I think that anything from the Host Arcanum coven to the Guild of Summoners coven in the new tome fits Arcanite builds pretty well... depending what you're trying to do that is.

Do you have any units/models in mind you want to run, or are you going for any theme/build in particular?

Daemon hero's are always still worth it as well in an Arcanite list imo.

[RUNCMD]

2 hours ago, Asimov said:

Hello everyone!

It has been more than a year that I played my tzeentch. Did not even try the new BT...

Could you please give me a list or two that works well? And the big scheme of play that goes with it?

Want to try to avoid the full flamer (I have the models but not mounted yet)

Thank you in advance!

Hey mate, are you mostly running Daemons or Mortals/Arcanites? Are you after more magic/shooting/combat that kind of thing?

[HMB]

6 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:

Yeah, plenty of ways. I think that anything from the Host Arcanum coven to the Guild of Summoners coven in the new tome fits Arcanite builds pretty well... depending what you're trying to do that is.

Do you have any units/models in mind you want to run, or are you going for any theme/build in particular?

Daemon hero's are always still worth it as well in an Arcanite list imo.

The main goal is to run a list with tzaangor and a magister on disk

[RUNCMD]

@HMB then you're in luck. I'd check out the "Cult of the Tranisent Form" coven or even the "Cult of the Thousand Eyes" coven (from Wrath of the Everchosen book) and they will give tzaangors a decent buff, albeit I think the Cult of the Tranisent form coven is a bit more situational / looks better on paper than on the battlefield?

Check out the Tzaangor Coven Battalion as well. It's Exxy as (in both cost for your list and also model wise) but has a great perk for taking it. You can also take either the Tzaangor Enlightened on Foot and Disc to meet the requirements, so some good options there.

I think the Tzaangors on foot are pretty over costed atm unless you take them in a blob of say 20 and just make them a murder unit with the Magister following them around and give Tzaangors the paired weapons because you get +1 to hit, then adding the +1 to wound for an arcanite hero being wholly within 12" of the unit.

Also consider the Fatemaster for his ability to burn a CP and re-roll all hit rolls.

If you find the Battalions for Tzaangors a bit too much in terms of points cost, then maybe check out the Phantasmagoria of Fate battalion from the Beats of Chaos book. Ends up being a 1 drop, but you might have to take some Beasts of Chaos Units (which Tzaangors are anyway). Might take it to a 2-3 drop depending on how many Arcanite Hero's you take.

I only use Tzaangor Enlightened atm and will use Skyfires when they are finally built, but I'm not overly versed in using just the reg infantry Tzaangors on foot sorry.  I prefer the Kairic Acolytes at the present, as I feel I get more bang for buck with them. They don't hit as hard as what a unit of Tzaangors could, but they also get a spell, 5+ save and 6+ DPR for their shield and most of the time you're really only taking the one weapon which is fine. In a bigger blob theyre more effective, much like Tzaangors, but cost less.

Hope this helps.

[HMB]

thank you so much!! I will test something in future