AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Smash]

Do we think there is gonna be an update regarding allies? So we can splash in a few savage orruks or kruel boyz? Would love to get some ranged support with a few bolt boyz or even a wurrgog prophet.

[Lanoss]

I would to…

but even the new app doesn’t have them as Allies…

[AaronWilson]

If you want to mix the armies it has to be in Big Waaagh

[Bruteforce]

1 hour ago, Smash said:

Do we think there is gonna be an update regarding allies? So we can splash in a few savage orruks or kruel boyz? Would love to get some ranged support with a few bolt boyz or even a wurrgog prophet.

Yeah i was bummed when i found out about no prophet in my IJ. We can ally in GSG by the looks of the app though

[Holy_Diver]

20 hours ago, Malakree said:

Can flaming weapon go on mount attacks? 

Yep, in the 27.3 ENACHEMENTS paragraph of the FAQ the third question allows that. 

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Smash said:

Do we think there is gonna be an update regarding allies? So we can splash in a few savage orruks or kruel boyz? Would love to get some ranged support with a few bolt boyz or even a wurrgog prophet.

I think the idea is that a Wurrgog Prophet would never joined a clan of Ironjawz, the only situation that happens is when they start forming together into a Big Waaagh! in that way Ironjawz would never actually be "allies" they are either a united force or two separate forces. There's also the fact that from a rules perspective each faction keeps one of the core aspects of their theme so Big Waaagh is no longer a single homogenous force but rather a gathering of the different powers into unified front.

2 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

Yep, in the 27.3 ENACHEMENTS paragraph of the FAQ the third question allows that. 

So very dumb, still don't think I'd want it over foot of gork. If I'm casting a cheap ability it's going to be mystic shield or emerald lifeswarm  

[Holy_Diver]

9 minutes ago, Malakree said:

So very dumb, still don't think I'd want it over foot of gork. If I'm casting a cheap ability it's going to be mystic shield or emerald lifeswarm  

For an 10+ cast that do D6 mortal wounds? With "Touched by the Waaagh!" your average roll is 2, so still 8+ to do something. Then roll the damage and then roll another dice, to roll another d6 🤔

Your taste. For me is super unreliable even with the trait for wizards.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Holy_Diver

[Malakree]

11 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

For an 10+ cast that do D6 mortal wounds? With "Touched by the Waaagh!" your average roll is 2, so still 8+ to do something. Then roll the damage and then roll another dice, to roll another d6 🤔

Your taste. For me is super unreliable even with the trait for wizards.

If I'm not casting Mystic Shield or Lifeswarm I want something that is guna get me out of a massive hole in the group. Anyone who has had foot of gork do 50+ wounds in one cast knows what I'm talking about.

[Jabbuk]

3 hours ago, Smash said:

Do we think there is gonna be an update regarding allies? So we can splash in a few savage orruks or kruel boyz? Would love to get some ranged support with a few bolt boyz or even a wurrgog prophet.

I really don't think this would happen, otherwise nobody would ever play Big Waaagh. They would just ally in some Boltboyz and keep their allegiance abilities. BW as it stands lost a lot so it's main attractions is being able to actually mix up units and keep the main traits. Anyways, would be extremely surprised of the contrary.

[Holy_Diver]

30 minutes ago, Malakree said:

If I'm not casting Mystic Shield or Lifeswarm I want something that is guna get me out of a massive hole in the group. Anyone who has had foot of gork do 50+ wounds in one cast knows what I'm talking about.

Dude, I've killed a full wounds Katakros only with the Voracious Maw of a Butcher, once 😁.
So I know that somedays is Christmas... but it's somedays.

Cabbage can be optimized to do only two things very well: tank OR beat the devil off ya.
Tryin to pull in another direction makes him "jack of all trades/master of none".

[Smash]

44 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

For an 10+ cast that do D6 mortal wounds? With "Touched by the Waaagh!" your average roll is 2, so still 8+ to do something. Then roll the damage and then roll another dice, to roll another d6 🤔

Your taste. For me is super unreliable even with the trait for wizards.

The cool thing with the wizard trait is that you can do the damage on an enemy unit. So picking Foot of gork is more so because you are a wizard already and it is the most flashy spell :). But picking Bash em ladz or flaming weapons is probably more reliable. If anything is worth picking over Amulet of destiny on a maw-krusha seems unlikely though. That's why I am gonna run double cabbage in my armies to get both options ,

I think one double reinforced ard boys unit is mandatory. If the unit is struggling, you can always retreat and then get that 4+ Rally next hero phase. 

[AaronWilson]

1 minute ago, Smash said:

The cool thing with the wizard trait is that you can do the damage on an enemy unit. So picking Foot of gork is more so because you are a wizard already and it is the most flashy spell :). But picking Bash em ladz or flaming weapons is probably more reliable. If anything is worth picking over Amulet of destiny on a maw-krusha seems unlikely though. That's why I am gonna run double cabbage in my armies to get both options ,

I think one double reinforced ard boys unit is mandatory. If the unit is struggling, you can always retreat and then get that 4+ Rally next hero phase. 

You can only retreat in your own hero phase, so it would require you to retreat then stay out of combat. 

[Malakree]

11 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

Dude, I've killed a full wounds Katakros only with the Voracious Maw of a Butcher, once 😁.
So I know that somedays is Christmas... but it's somedays.

Cabbage can be optimized to do only two things very well: tank OR beat the devil off ya.
Tryin to pull in another direction makes him "jack of all trades/master of none".

I guess, analysing my own thoughts on it (EDIT: self reflection here), if I'm taking arcane tome it's for mystic shield/lifeswarm, on that basis I'd rather have a hail mary which might win me an otherwise unwinable situation than an efficiency boost. So personal preference wise I'm not expecting to use whatever the "extra" spell is that often since I'd just pick mystic shield instead.

Might be more inclined towards flaming weapon if we got MD hero phase fight back.

3 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

You can only retreat in your own hero phase, so it would require you to retreat then stay out of combat. 

Rally is either hero phase. So even if you lose prio you can use it at the start of their hero phase, with getting models back on a 4+ on a unit of 15 with 1 left you're looking +7 models which is mad.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Malakree

[AaronWilson]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

I guess, analysing my own thoughts on it, if I'm taking arcane tome it's for mystic shield/lifeswarm, on that basis I'd rather have a hail mary which might win me an otherwise unwinable situation than an efficiency boost. So personal preference wise I'm not expecting to use whatever the "extra" spell is that often since I'd just pick mystic shield instead.

Might be more inclined towards flaming weapon if we got MD hero phase fight back.

Rally is either hero phase. So even if you lose prio you can use it at the start of their hero phase, with getting models back on a 4+ on a unit of 15 with 1 left you're looking +7 models which is mad.

You can't rally while engaged with a enemy no?

[Nellit]

Hi all, new guy here. Just started building my first ironjawz list. Got start collecting box, brutes and maw-crusha. I could really use your advise on which weapon to choose. So what is go to weapon for pigs, brutes and maw-crusha?

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

You can't rally while engaged with a enemy no?

Retreat in your movement phase, start of their hero phase you rally  

3 minutes ago, Nellit said:

Hi all, new guy here. Just started building my first ironjawz list. Got start collecting box, brutes and maw-crusha. I could really use your advise on which weapon to choose. So what is go to weapon for pigs, brutes and maw-crusha?

• MK is riptooth, honestly though for the cabbage I've never had any problem with it being what I say it is, 90% of people can't even tell which weapon is what.
• Brutes are the 2handed spears and you use them in blocks of 10.
• Gore-gruntas the general consensus is the Choppas but it isn't a massive difference, if there's an aesthetic preference you have it's not going to make a noticeable impact.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Malakree

[AaronWilson]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Retreat in your movement phase, start of their hero phase you rally  

• MK is riptooth, honestly though for the cabbage I've never had any problem with it being what I say it is, 90% of people can't even tell which weapon is what.
• Brutes are the 2handed spears and you use them in blocks of 10.
• Gore-gruntas the general consensus is the Choppas but it isn't a massive difference, if there's an aesthetic preference you have it's not going to make a noticeable impact.

I mean yes I understand that but I'm not sure if it's the most viable tactic to retreat your melee unit out of combat to do nothing and get half your losses back, just feels situational 

[Malakree]

Just now, AaronWilson said:

I mean yes I understand that but I'm not sure if it's the most viable tactic to retreat your melee unit out of combat to do nothing and get half your losses back, just feels situational 

Obviously it is but I could see a few games over the past ~2 months where if I'd been able to do that it would have won me the game.

[Backbreaker]

46 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

I mean yes I understand that but I'm not sure if it's the most viable tactic to retreat your melee unit out of combat to do nothing and get half your losses back, just feels situational 

In Ironsunz you could get them back into combat at the end of your opponent charge phase, I guess ?

[AaronWilson]

8 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

In Ironsunz you could get them back into combat at the end of your opponent charge phase, I guess ?

Yeah I guess at a push you could retreat in your own movement phase, rally there movement phase & then charge in there charge phase.

It just feels like it's too slow? To give another analogy, in trading card games healing spells are often considered weak because you'll spend a turn to regain 5 health for example but don't not effect the board state, while you're opponent keeps pushing.

The whole retreat, and then rally in their charge phase sort of feels the same. You take your own unit of melee to rally, maybe given up board position of any chance of damage in return etc. 

Not saying it's useless but It's another CP used (Two if you want to charge back in) on a already CP hungry army and a rather poor warscroll for the new ardboyz

[Gothmaug]

3 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I really don't think this would happen, otherwise nobody would ever play Big Waaagh. They would just ally in some Boltboyz and keep their allegiance abilities. BW as it stands lost a lot so it's main attractions is being able to actually mix up units and keep the main traits. Anyways, would be extremely surprised of the contrary.

So you don't need to list Kruelboys, Ironjawz or Bonesplitters as allies because they are part of the same Faction. So you can include them in any of your armies, in any combination.  

Let me caveat all this by saying that I'm waiting for my actual book to arrive to see how the armies and units are broken out, So I have no idea if any of this is actually true, but...

Isn't everything in the battletome part of one big army Faction ? What's stopping me from taking an ironjawz heavy list and including orruks from other subfactions? They're all Orruk Warclans units, aren't they? And I can build an army using any units from battletome, can't I?  

The core rulebook just says that all the units in my army must be from the same Faction (page 338 matched play rules). Everything in the Orruk Warclans battletome is from the Warclans faction, correct? And they are all included on the same orruk warclans faction points cost table, correct? So there's no reason you cant use anythign in the Battletome in you're army, regardless of your allegiance. 

I could see that by picking ironjawz, than my allegiance abilities and such would only affect Ironjawz units in my force, and not the kruelboys or bonesplitters units, who would get nothing. But I dont see any restriction in taking them along. 

As opposed to picking Big Waagh, which explicitly states that different branches of the Orruk tree retain some of their allegiance abilities. So the advantage here, is that as a Big Waagh, you get to mix amd match allegiance abilities from all three allegiances. 

Anyhow, once I see a battletome where I can read the rules, look at the unit keywords on warscrolls, and see how the battletome treats the definitions of  sub factions and allegiances, I wont know for sure. But I will say it seems silly that an orruk force made primarily of ironjawz loses its status and abilities (and now has to use the Big Waagh ones) just  because they picked up a single bonesplitterz unit that happened to be wandering by. 

 

Looking at Keywords from some of the online reviews, most warscrolls have something similar to (DESTRUCTION, ORRUK WARCLANS, ORRUK, KRUELBOYZ), where there is a subfaction specific keyword. 

But then there are others, Like the Sloggoth, that have no subfaction Keyword (DESTRUCTION, ORRUK WARCLANS, GROT, TROGGOTH, MARSHCRAWLER SLOGGOTH)

Does that mean I can take it in ANY Orruk subfaction? Does it work in my Ironjawz Army? I'd say yes you can include it, BUT since it lacks the IRONJAWZ keyword, it would not benefit from your Ironjawz specific allegiance abilities. 

So, in conclusion, You can build a Kruelboys or Ironjawz or bonesplitters specific force, AND you can include ANY "ORRUK WARCLANS" units in your army, because they all have the ORRUK WARCLANS faction keyword. BUT you will only apply your specific subfaction rules to units with the correct subfaction keyword. So for instance. no smashing and bashing, unless you have the Ironjawz Keyword.

 

Anyhow thats my two cents

 

[Malakree]

@Gothmaug @Jabbuk@Smash @Lanoss

To quote the Rulebook

Quote

There are 4 different types of Orruk Warclans army, and you must decide which type your Orruk Warcalns army will be. The 4 types of Orruk Warclans army are: Kruleboyz, Ironjawz, Bonesplitters and Big Waaagh!

.....Choose an Ironjawz army, all ORRUK WARCLANS units in the army must have the IRONJAWZ keyword....

It literally says no.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Malakree

[Vastianos]

1 hour ago, Gothmaug said:

So you don't need to list Kruelboys, Ironjawz or Bonesplitters as allies because they are part of the same Faction. So you can include them in any of your armies, in any combination.  

Let me caveat all this by saying that I'm waiting for my actual book to arrive to see how the armies and units are broken out, So I have no idea if any of this is actually true, but...

Isn't everything in the battletome part of one big army Faction ? What's stopping me from taking an ironjawz heavy list and including orruks from other subfactions? They're all Orruk Warclans units, aren't they? And I can build an army using any units from battletome, can't I?  

The core rulebook just says that all the units in my army must be from the same Faction (page 338 matched play rules). Everything in the Orruk Warclans battletome is from the Warclans faction, correct? And they are all included on the same orruk warclans faction points cost table, correct? So there's no reason you cant use anythign in the Battletome in you're army, regardless of your allegiance. 

I could see that by picking ironjawz, than my allegiance abilities and such would only affect Ironjawz units in my force, and not the kruelboys or bonesplitters units, who would get nothing. But I dont see any restriction in taking them along. 

As opposed to picking Big Waagh, which explicitly states that different branches of the Orruk tree retain some of their allegiance abilities. So the advantage here, is that as a Big Waagh, you get to mix amd match allegiance abilities from all three allegiances. 

Anyhow, once I see a battletome where I can read the rules, look at the unit keywords on warscrolls, and see how the battletome treats the definitions of  sub factions and allegiances, I wont know for sure. But I will say it seems silly that an orruk force made primarily of ironjawz loses its status and abilities (and now has to use the Big Waagh ones) just  because they picked up a single bonesplitterz unit that happened to be wandering by. 

 

Looking at Keywords from some of the online reviews, most warscrolls have something similar to (DESTRUCTION, ORRUK WARCLANS, ORRUK, KRUELBOYZ), where there is a subfaction specific keyword. 

But then there are others, Like the Sloggoth, that have no subfaction Keyword (DESTRUCTION, ORRUK WARCLANS, GROT, TROGGOTH, MARSHCRAWLER SLOGGOTH)

Does that mean I can take it in ANY Orruk subfaction? Does it work in my Ironjawz Army? I'd say yes you can include it, BUT since it lacks the IRONJAWZ keyword, it would not benefit from your Ironjawz specific allegiance abilities. 

So, in conclusion, You can build a Kruelboys or Ironjawz or bonesplitters specific force, AND you can include ANY "ORRUK WARCLANS" units in your army, because they all have the ORRUK WARCLANS faction keyword. BUT you will only apply your specific subfaction rules to units with the correct subfaction keyword. So for instance. no smashing and bashing, unless you have the Ironjawz Keyword.

 

Anyhow thats my two cents

 

In the tome reviews on the page proceeding the three factions and big waagh there is a page titled "The Green Tide." It states when you pick units for each of the factions it must contain that factions keyword, for example if you choose the kruelboyz faction you can only select units with the kruelboyz keyword.

The exception are the big waagh and allies, of which we only have gloomspite as listed allies.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Vastianos

[Malakree]

33 minutes ago, Vastianos said:

In the tome reviews on the page proceeding the three factions and big waagh there is a page titled "The Green Tide." It states when you pick units for each of the factions it must contain that factions keyword, for example if you choose the kruelboyz faction you can only select units with the kruelboyz keyword.

The exception are the big waagh and allies, of which we only have gloomspite as listed allies.

It specifically says Orruk Warclans units so it doesn't discount things like the Megagargant allies.

[Vastianos]

6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It specifically says Orruk Warclans units so it doesn't discount things like the Megagargant allies.

Sorry, I thought like allies mercenaries were a given. Only mentioned allies to redouble the fact you cannot cross faction the orruk, even as allies.