AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

So after rereading winning list from Essex GT (Ironsunz with Etheral Amulet), one think that i did not catch at first was the use of The ragged cloak (protect bearer from a shooting for 1 turn). He use it on Weirnob shaman, which is very clever as it ensure you'll have access to hand of gork if he go second in that case.

I think the item can be either more usefull in a Weirdfist as you invest a lot of point in your Shaman. Current shooting in the meta is really annoying , as you have a wide variety of shooting attack and it's hard to protect against everything.

[PlasticCraic]

3 hours ago, broche said:

So after rereading winning list from Essex GT (Ironsunz with Etheral Amulet), one think that i did not catch at first was the use of The ragged cloak (protect bearer from a shooting for 1 turn). He use it on Weirnob shaman, which is very clever as it ensure you'll have access to hand of gork if he go second in that case.

I think the item can be either more usefull in a Weirdfist as you invest a lot of point in your Shaman. Current shooting in the meta is really annoying , as you have a wide variety of shooting attack and it's hard to protect against everything.

Totally agree, I used the Ragged Cloak a lot with Bonesplitterz to keep my Savage Big Boss alive (thanks to @svnvaldez for the tip).  It's game changing.

Locks you into Shyish, but that's fine, let's go Ironclad + Ethereal loadout on the Maw Krusha then.

I would also use Ragged Cloak in an Ardfist army too, to keep the Warchanter alive.

Edited July 11, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[Aelven supremacy]

How does the IJ matchup look against Idoneth?  

[Jabbuk]

Hi guys,

We're having a disagreement at my casual league with how many Standard Bearers can a unit of Ardboys have. I have searched a lot around in different forums and it seems to be a recurring question with no clear cut answer because of how the rules have been written. I think it is common sense to say that you can only have one Standard Bearer per group of 10. My question is if I have a unit of 20 models, Can I have 2 standard bearers, one with the banner, the other with Icon of Gork?

Would like to hear your opinion on the matter. I know some topics on here cover the subject but I could never figure out the ''right'' answer for it.

 

[Malakree]

49 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hi guys,

We're having a disagreement at my casual league with how many Standard Bearers can a unit of Ardboys have. I have searched a lot around in different forums and it seems to be a recurring question with no clear cut answer because of how the rules have been written. I think it is common sense to say that you can only have one Standard Bearer per group of 10. My question is if I have a unit of 20 models, Can I have 2 standard bearers, one with the banner, the other with Icon of Gork?

Would like to hear your opinion on the matter. I know some topics on here cover the subject but I could never figure out the ''right'' answer for it.

There is no limit as it's not specified.

You could have a unit full of drummers if you wanted. So yeah, however many models are carrying a banner/icon/drum.

EDIT: To quote from the warscroll.

Quote

WAAAGH! DRUMMER
Models in this unit may be Waaagh! Drummers. Add 2 to charge rolls for a unit that includes any Waaagh! Drummers.

STANDARD BEARER
Models in this unit may be Standard Bearers. Standard Bearers can carry either an Orruk Banner or an Icon of Gork.

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Malakree

[Warmill]

I love my maw krusha and have been toying with expanding my 1500pts to 2000 by adding in a second one. Here is what I've been considering, would love some feedback. I'm not aiming for top tables, just an army that is a lot of fun and can still wreck a bit of face.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Live to Fight 
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Essence of Vulcatrix 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Bloodtoofs (80)
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119

My plan is basically the one big combat phase, using mighty destroyers to get the krushas where I need them to be for the turn 2 fight. Metalrippa for the bloodtoof general's choppa, use a command point reroll 1s and live to fight to try and mazimize the wounds on him, while the vulcatrix buffs up all the attacks from the other to compensate for the lack of -3 rend. I'll use mighty destroyers to double move them to threaten the juicy stuff at the back or clear objectives for my little units.

The shaman will run bash em ladz, using the cloak to make sure I can position him where needed for the +2 to cast and get the right units wholly within 12 for the rerolls. I figure as the krushas can fly and with the extra movement from ironfist and bloodtoofs I should be able to get by without hand of gork, but it's a tough call.

I've chosen bloodtoofs instead of ironsunz as my big fights are going to be in round 2, and the extra charge and run range  is worth more to me to make sure I can do all my positioning in turn 1. As I"ll be using cps for mighty destroyers on the krushas, it also gives me a better chance of getting the +2 waaghs as I will have less cps available for the bomb, and the bravery buff should mean I don't lose any units to an unlucky battleshock.

I am debating replacing the shaman with a fungoid as I've been running 2 in my 1500pt army and the amount of cps I get is unreal, and I won't have as many available for waaghs and reroll 1's to hit while the krushas are zipping around.

I realize the army is very vulnerable to getting sniped by spells and MWs (as I say, not gunning for top tables!), so I would keep the krushas right back to start with and keep my fingers very crossed that I'll live long enough to do the damage!
 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Warmill

[Jabbuk]

Hi guys,

I have another noob question and also couldn't find a clear cut answer for it. When do you actually cast the Waaagh!?

Technically, on the warscroll, it say AT THE START OF THE COMBAT PHASE. However, I have seen some comments here and there and batreps even where the IJ player casts the WAAGH! before teleporting a unit, so in the HERO PHASE.

In the games I have played, I waited until the combat phase to cast it. This actually makes a big difference because if I can cast it in the hero phase at the start of the game, all my units are within reach from each other and my odds are best while if I do it in a combat phase, later in the game, some units might be away. 

Could you guys help out with this? Thanks!

[tolstedt]

29 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hi guys,

I have another noob question and also couldn't find a clear cut answer for it. When do you actually cast the Waaagh!?

Technically, on the warscroll, it say AT THE START OF THE COMBAT PHASE. However, I have seen some comments here and there and batreps even where the IJ player casts the WAAGH! before teleporting a unit, so in the HERO PHASE.

 In the games I have played, I waited until the combat phase to cast it. This actually makes a big difference because if I can cast it in the hero phase at the start of the game, all my units are within reach from each other and my odds are best while if I do it in a combat phase, later in the game, some units might be away. 

Could you guys help out with this? Thanks!

You do it in the hero phase, then count and roll the die in the combat phase.

[Superninja]

yeah you use Waagh in the hero phase, then move everyone, charge etc, then in the combat phase you count up the units and roll dice.   So it can be a gamble sometimes, because you don't know if all the units will be within range or if they will make the charges. 

[umpac]

Hi, new to Ironjawz and had a few questions. 

 

1) Normally banners and musicians count as having the same weapon as the rest of the unit, but Ardboyz can have different weapons in the same unit. Do I need to model them with GWs/smashas or do I just declare it? Or do they always have a specific weapon?

2) I see a lot of people running 1 unit of Ardboyz with greatweapons and 1 unit with two choppas. Wouldn't it make sense to run units with a 50-50 split? That way you just place the best option for your current match up in the front (like GWs vs armor, 2 choppas vs ethereals etc) and always have the best option?

 

Thanks in advance!

[tolstedt]

1 hour ago, umpac said:

Hi, new to Ironjawz and had a few questions. 

 

1) Normally banners and musicians count as having the same weapon as the rest of the unit, but Ardboyz can have different weapons in the same unit. Do I need to model them with GWs/smashas or do I just declare it? Or do they always have a specific weapon?

2) I see a lot of people running 1 unit of Ardboyz with greatweapons and 1 unit with two choppas. Wouldn't it make sense to run units with a 50-50 split? That way you just place the best option for your current match up in the front (like GWs vs armor, 2 choppas vs ethereals etc) and always have the best option?

  

Thanks in advance!

I always take all the rend on the ardboyz.  The rend gets better the more waaaghs you use.  Some people like the shields.  I would take full shields if I had a unit of 30 with the job of pinning the enemy down for five turns, otherwise always all rend.

[Someone2]

I always go 40-40-20 on double-rend-shield. You retain your adaptability on your enemy, but also get to throw a few 6++ saves. 

[Jabbuk]

3 hours ago, umpac said:

Hi, new to Ironjawz and had a few questions. 

 

1) Normally banners and musicians count as having the same weapon as the rest of the unit, but Ardboyz can have different weapons in the same unit. Do I need to model them with GWs/smashas or do I just declare it? Or do they always have a specific weapon?

2) I see a lot of people running 1 unit of Ardboyz with greatweapons and 1 unit with two choppas. Wouldn't it make sense to run units with a 50-50 split? That way you just place the best option for your current match up in the front (like GWs vs armor, 2 choppas vs ethereals etc) and always have the best option?

 

Thanks in advance!

I researched a lot on this topic so here's what I found.

Generally, it's considered better to have 1/4 of your unit that carries shield. I put 3 in a 10 man, 5 in a 20man, etc. The banners and drummer guys carry the same thing as the unit, or whatever you want to declare they have. It's easier and simpler when the entire unit has the same weapons. Having different weapon sets in the same unit can be problematic. Here's a problem I ran in last game I played that could happen to you. 

I had piled in my arboys around the enemy unit and in the line, there were dual weilders and 2handers. I attacked with my 2 handers first and killed a few models. My opponent took out some of them that were in contact with dual weilders (because the enemy chooses where to allocate wounds). When I got to the point to attack with my dual weilders, I actually lost some attacks because some guys didnt have anyone to hit on anymore. I guess this is the downside of mixing up your weapons. It's definitely a problem you wouldn't encouter if all your unit had the same weapons because they would all attack at the same time, therefore, the opponent would take out the units at the end of all the attacks. 

Hope that helps.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Someone2]

All attacks from 1 unit happen simultaniously. So you can't loose any attacks because you fought with half the units weapons first.

[Jabbuk]

3 minutes ago, Someone2 said:

All attacks from 1 unit happen simultaniously. So you can't loose any attacks because you fought with half the units weapons first.

Huh? Is that so? That means that we roll all the dices differently and they happen at the same time? 

[Someone2]

Just now, Jabbuk said:

Huh? Is that so? That means that we roll all the dices differently and they happen at the same time? 

Correct. But only per unit. You could therefore also throw all at once by using different colored dice together in order to save time

[Jabbuk]

2 minutes ago, Someone2 said:

Correct. But only per unit. You could therefore also throw all at once by using different colored dice together in order to save time

Thats amazing, thank you for clarifying. (also means I got screwed in my game lol)

[Warmill]

I've been running 6-4 double choppa - big choppa, but I think I'm going to switch over to all big choppas as the double choppas bounce way to often for my liking unless they're hitting really squishy targets.

[Malakree]

Generally I run a 40-60 rule for my Ardboys. 40% Big Choppas and 60% Shields.

[Jabbuk]

I have a question regarding strategy. I've played 3 games so far of 500 points (working on my 1000pts list) and I noticed how my heroes on foot are always lagging behind. Usually in the first turn or so I position myself to maximize synergy, I run my leaders so they catch up and/or use a CP for Mighty Destroyer to get good positioning. But pretty soon, either this turn or the next, I charge my Gore-gruntas in and Ardboyz because I want to get the first hit and my heroes are often pretty far behind because they are not charging with them. I'm wondering how you guys would play this.

Right now I'm running a very small list:

Warchanter (General)

Weirdnob Shaman

1x10 Ardboys and 1x3 GGs. (I'm currently in the process of switching my shaman with another unit of GGs as the points have changed)

So 2 questions: Should I play defensively and stay in a bubble waiting to get charged so that I get good unit synergy and everyone gets the Waagh? Or alternatively, should I run in and charge first.

 And #2, is it a good idea to get another unit of GGs or should I bring ardboys (to replace the shaman slot) I'm aiming for mobility atm.

Note that so far we're playing some easy wound count battle scenario as the objective-driven ones really put me at a disadvantage at the moment. That other unit should fix it.

What do you guys think of that?

Edited July 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Malakree]

50 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Should I play defensively and stay in a bubble waiting to get charged so that I get good unit synergy and everyone gets the Waagh? Or alternatively, should I run in and charge first.

Generally ironjawz want to hit first. We setup for that single doom turn then roll through all of them with smashing and bashing. The way I do it is through a single large unit of ardboys forward to pin and soak while I position for the bomb.

You are always going to have the problem of characters lagging behind on the charge turn, that's just natural. One of the key parts of playing ironjawz is learning how to charge so that you get where you want to be but still tail into the waaagh! aura. It's way harder with the 10" bubble on a foot hero but the fact it's only toe in makes it more manageable.

[Ravinsild]

If I’m not mistaken with the GHB 2019 change to smash and bash it can only proc 1 time now correct? 

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha destroys a unit, Brutes then attack due to smashing and bashing and also destroy a unit but I can no longer do smashing and bashing. 

Is this an accurate interpretation of the new phrasing? 

[Jabbuk]

33 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Generally ironjawz want to hit first. We setup for that single doom turn then roll through all of them with smashing and bashing. The way I do it is through a single large unit of ardboys forward to pin and soak while I position for the bomb.

You are always going to have the problem of characters lagging behind on the charge turn, that's just natural. One of the key parts of playing ironjawz is learning how to charge so that you get where you want to be but still tail into the waaagh! aura. It's way harder with the 10" bubble on a foot hero but the fact it's only toe in makes it more manageable.

Thanks man, that's really insightful.

[Jabbuk]

18 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

If I’m not mistaken with the GHB 2019 change to smash and bash it can only proc 1 time now correct? 

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha destroys a unit, Brutes then attack due to smashing and bashing and also destroy a unit but I can no longer do smashing and bashing. 

Is this an accurate interpretation of the new phrasing? 

It is my understanding that you can do it as long the unit has not attacked previously in the turn. As long as you keep destroying a unit, you can go with another one that hasn't attacked yet. I don't think GHB2019 changed anything about it. I also think that your MBoMK can charge again with one of his ability, so it wouldn't be as part of Smashin' and Bashin'

Edited July 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Ravinsild]

Why do they specify 1 Friendly unit then? Am I Just getting caught up on the digit? I read it was only 1 Friendly unit that has not attacked yet can attack but none after 🤷‍♂️