AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Not anymore, it's been changed with Gloomspite book.

Hum you're correct. that's inconvenient.

@Banglesprout got a local even tommorow, decided to give a shot ta a variation of your list. With my painted model, here's what I got.I've decided to be a nice guys and drop the Aetherquartz and go for more mortal output. Won't help Death matchup, but we will see! 

I might still use Golden tooth as well, might be necessery in a more defensive army. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Rockjaws 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Weirdfist (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

 

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, Banglesprout said:

I'd be tempted to go for an allied Fungoid.. In which case I'd be tempted to drop the warchanter for him, but it's quite annoying that he's gone up 10 points so they're not the same anymore - I'm not sure how I would change the list to drop those extra 10 points - I could switch a unit of Brutes to a unit of Ardboyz, but I'm not sure I like that as much.. probably would be worth giving a go though!

He is worth those extra 10 points now since he has a good chance each turn to generate extra command points.

[Banglesprout]

@broche awesome! Good luck, look forward to hearing how it goes!

@Skabnoze oh agreed he's definitely worth 10 extra points for the CP generation, but I quite like the warchanter too, and I'm not too keen on dropping one of the existing units down to make room.. although swapping one Brute unit for another Ardboy unit might be good.

Feels like a bit of a micro optimisation  which wouldn't make a bit difference either way, but it'd be good to give a go, especially since I already have the fungoid.. although it would also mean making 10 more Ardboy 😬

[Aelfric]

I've been considering taking a Madcap Shaman and 6 Rockgut Troggoth's for 400 points and 50 points for the Arachnacauldron (as endless spells don't count as allies points).  Allows you to teleport either Troggoths or Shaman and gives you access to other nice spells, such as Itchy Nuisance.   I would rather take the Fungoid, but would then be limited to 3 Troggoths and not sure if 3 would be enough.

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

I've been considering taking a Madcap Shaman and 6 Rockgut Troggoth's for 400 points and 50 points for the Arachnacauldron (as endless spells don't count as allies points).  Allows you to teleport either Troggoths or Shaman and gives you access to other nice spells, such as Itchy Nuisance.   I would rather take the Fungoid, but would then be limited to 3 Troggoths and not sure if 3 would be enough.

Yeah lol, I thought about taking it with Big G. 

1. Cast Cauldron
2. Use shrooms
3. Use Voice of Gork
4. Hand of Gork the Troggs
5. 3d6" charge and each Trogg has 4 attacks!

So filthy haha

[Aelfric]

19 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Yeah lol, I thought about taking it with Big G. 

1. Cast Cauldron
2. Use shrooms
3. Use Voice of Gork
4. Hand of Gork the Troggs
5. 3d6" charge and each Trogg has 4 attacks!

So filthy haha

If you could just squeeze a Troggherd in there . . . .

[Luzgurbel]

The only one list of Ironjawz for the Bloodtithe:

 

Bill Green

Team Rocksteady

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - General - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist - Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

Orruk Warchanter (80)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 9x Choppa or Smasha & Shields - 1x Big Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 9x Choppa or Smasha & Shields - 1x Big Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 10x Big Choppas

Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 114

 

Triple MK, my god xd

[broche]

So tried the weirdfist today at local (16 players). Went 2-1. I choked on the artefact and decided to take the brooch and cuirass, and did not regret as the playing level was better than usual.

NOTE: No realms spell and terrain rules used (we suck a bit for that here)

Game 1 I played against stormcast (sequitor, evocator, graviel and 3 ballista) on shifting objective. Not a exactily good matchup for weirdfist. I did roll really bad and he rolled awesome early game, and I could not win the initiative in r2 and r3 (let him go first).  I was conservative with foot but i rolled pretty high casting roll so i should have cast it anyway while i was outside the auto dispel and i might actually have won.

Game 2 another stormcast, but he had older model (liberator, paladin ect.)  wich is actually fair with IJ and we played on total commitment (so no deep strike). I hit the free move with MK on t1 and was able to score one of his objective for 2 turn in a row, not much worth mention in that game. 

Game 3 against mix order on Star Strike (phoenix, hurricanum, kurnouth, excecutioneur). Interesting mixed listed, guys also play really well.  Not much happen early as we waited for comet to strike. I splitte my units to max out board coverage.  He almost killed Weirnob in T1 with kurnouth, but i was then able to engage kurnouth and eventually grind them with mortal.  I basically ignored the Phoenix and killed a max of his model so at the end he was lacking model  to effectively contest the objective.

List was interesting. I ended up always trying Cog with Fungoid. I think Cog bring you more than vortex in that list, as your Weirnob can actually move up to 9'' upfield and stay closed to some units, and switch to bonus move in some key moment.  One of the issue i had is starting with only 1 CP, so you trigger Brooch less often early on. I could not trigger it once in 1st  game, and that proved out to be key as it probably cost me the game. But i also did a bad job at managing the board in that game ( first time with this army so some learning)  didn't fell i was playihg flawlessly. I still think i would try to bring the list down to 1950 to get extra CP. Megaboss was not bad, but i would probably take him down for WC or Ironskullz for the extra CP

[Banglesprout]

On 3/10/2019 at 7:24 AM, broche said:

I think Cog bring you more than vortex in that list, as your Weirnob can actually move up to 9'' upfield and stay closed to some units, and switch to bonus move in some key moment.

Awesome, this was my thinking but I wasn't sure if you'd miss the extra range for casting outside of dispel range..

 

On 3/10/2019 at 7:24 AM, broche said:

One of the issue i had is starting with only 1 CP, so you trigger Brooch less often early on. 

What do are you using CP so much for? I can see it being used for a reroll on one of the spells early, then waaagh later maybe.

[broche]

Well IJ is a Waaagh army. Our troop don't compete with most troop in T1 army. So wathever your list, to compete with best army you need to stack attack.
Just take an easy comparaison: Evocator vs Brutes who have a similar profile. 5 unbuffed Evocator do 14 damages (no rend) and 5 mortal in average. Without any
buff Brutes will do 10 damage (8 rend 1 , 2 rend 2). Evocator are wizard and have 2'' reach, and reroll save of 1 agains shoot for only extra 20 pts. You can twist this in your head a many time
as you want, it's not a fair fight. But take the same 5 brutes with +3 attack and suddenly they shred those 5 evocator. 

You won't kill opposing army with a weirdfist. It just give you a long range / mortal wound threath. It help you deal with anoying units or character (high reroll save and ignore rend for exemple,
wich IJ really dislike). It also increase your odds of triggering multiple MK charge. In the end, Ironjawz is a damage spike army need those 3-4 extra attack to compete with 
the rest of the field. Without the brooch, if you lose your weirnob, you're left with no answer. But with brooch if he die, that's fine. 
You can turn the cog for +4 move and  still explode with +6 attack and win the game.

I think the Weirdfist Cog is a versatile army because it can mimic move boost of Ironfist, but you gain a really potent long range threath.

[Jawz]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:31 PM, Luzgurbel said:

The only one list of Ironjawz for the Bloodtithe:

 

Bill Green

Team Rocksteady

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - General - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist - Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

Orruk Warchanter (80)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 9x Choppa or Smasha & Shields - 1x Big Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 9x Choppa or Smasha & Shields - 1x Big Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) - 10x Big Choppas

Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 114

 

Triple MK, my god xd

Hehe, strange to see my own list being quoted when I peruse this site for ideas on what to try!

Well I’m sad to say the triple MK looked great, nice and simple to play but unfortunately outclassed by everything I faced. 

To be fair, being my first ever tourney and a ‘crazy’ list I agreed to be expendable within the team, This meant I got matched against some nasty lists and very experienced players while our stronger players took on opponents they had a good chance of beating.

I lost all five games over the weekend by the end of turn three you could hypothosise that I would have been tabled by turn 5. 

Everyone I faced was anxious at first but soon relaxed when they realised how killable the maw krushas are (and that I was happy to lose gracefully :)). Great on the charge with destructive bulk but once stuck in combat they are soon chewed up and their successful wound output is little better than a squad of Brutes. 

The main way my forces were evaporated was through mortal wounds, all my opponents were chucking out mortal wounds all over the place through abilities and spells. No defence whatsoever and a relatively low wound strength total in my list. 

Even so I had a fantastic time and learned loads about the current ‘strong’ metas (night haunt, daughters, Nagash, deepkin, shaven). I’d highly recommend Bloodtithe! Great atmosphere, super sporting opponents from all over the world.

Many commented that fundamentally the jaws are in desperate need of a new Battletome to bring them up to match the current meta.  There’s a reason there were no other jawz lists at the tournament  

Tournament rumour has it it this will happen sooner than later so I will continue to paint my remaining jaws and live in hope of serious some mortal wound output or defence!  

 

 

[Luzgurbel]

Thanks for your comment 'lad!

 

I think, also, that one of the worst issue for the IJ are the heavy mw output that there's out there. But it's a problem of the game not of the factions.

[broche]

@Jawz 

Sorry to hear that! it's infortunate, cause i found your list interesting. I don't have the privilege to try multi-krusha list. I tought it could perform 
like the 3 zombie dragon list from LVO. 

If you have time to do a quick summary of your game, that could gave some input on how the improve the list? One thing i notice is the high number of drop
meaning you don't get to choose who play first. What was your overall strategy when going first/second?

[Jawz]

No problem at all, happy to share my experiences - apologies if I bore you but I guess its up to you if you want to read!  

Yes, acquiring 3 Maw Krushas was no mean feet, lots of eBay haggling and renovating 'badly painted' models...

I only had the chance to try this list out in two games before the tournament and in both games the list performed well, one major victory against the poor old Fyre Slayers (who are also in dire need of an update...) and one Minor Defeat against a very experienced and strong, fully latest-battle-tome-updated Skaven list. 

It's a super fun list to play, very easy to wrap your head around, one A4 cheat sheet and warscroll print out. Part of the reason I took this 'simple' route was to maintain my stamina over two days of intense gaming. I think this list could actually continue to do well in less competitive environment e.g your local club/GW store but will struggle in an international tournament where all the armies are seriously optimised to take advantage of the latest meta. 

General thoughts with hindsight: 

• I would maybe find ways to acquire more CP for the first turn Alpha strike and use stacked mighty-waaagh for extra attacks in that phase, that was the main place I did damage but not quite enough to tip the battle in my favour
  • Summary:
    • Use your destruction move in the Hero phase (keep all your heroes in range of each other so at least one Maw Krusha is covering 26"-32" in the first turn 
    • Stack the Frenzy of Violence and Mighty Waaagh for extra attacks
• The shield armed boys are quite good at staying on the board even in units of 10 but the 10 with big choppas didn't do much damage and weren't as survivable (bear in mind most of the death stuff I faced ignored rend anyway... ) 
• From memory I did actually get to choose who went first in all the matches, it seemed my opponents had the same amount or more drops than me and/or lost the initial roll off 
  • 3/4 matches I chose to go first, and did the classic IJ Alpha Strike, just not doing enough damage to make a difference 
• In future 'competition' lists I'm thinking of:
  • Going more magic heavy (for defence and MW output) with a loon king or cave shamen as you (Broche) mentioned in this thread above
  • Perhaps also a block of 30 boys as my lawnmower, buffed to the hilt with Waagh and Frenzy of Violence and maybe the Ardfist battalion to bring them back from the dead
  • The battalion to reduce drops, get an extra CP and artefact and ensure first turn choice
• I'm optimistic the new Jawz battletome will make their Alpha strike more deadly or cost effective and hopefully they'll also get some scenery and better magic (AKA long range MW output) - be great to see the Megabosses at least get a decent ward save too

Game Summaries: 

 

Game 1 - Nighthaunt - Focal Points

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

 Leaders

Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)

- General

- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)

- Artefact: Midnight Tome

- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Lord Executioner (80)

 Battleline

6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

 Units

4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80)

8 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (120)

 Behemoths

Mourngul (300)

 Endless Spells

Chronomantic Cogs (60)

 Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 111

• I took the first turn, got all three maw krushas up the board in the hero phase
• Did a lot of turn 1 damage, good dice, wiped out multiple units but he had a lot of stuff "in the underworld"
• This was a fairly close game until he deep striked 30 buffed glaive wraiths in to my rearguard infantry line and captured my objectives which tipped the points in his favour and I couldn't shift the heroes off his objectives
• The MKs survived quite well and did a lot of damage in his line but the enemy ignoring rend limited their effectiveness, especially against his heroes 

Game 2 - Daughters of Khaine - Total Commitment

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Artefact: Iron Circlet 
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Battalions
Slaughter Troupe (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149

• I took the first turn, got all three maw krushas up the board in the hero phase
• Did a lot of turn 1 damage, good dice, wiped out multiple units of witches and decimated some sisters 
• However, on his first and second turn he'd buffed a block of 30 sisters to the point they were outputting and average of 30-40 wounds with -1 rend
  • Even a 4+ save with mystic shield, 20ish wounds are getting through
    • They deleted everything they touched
    • I would have been wiped out in turn 4 had we continued 

Game 3 - Free People - Gift From the Heavens

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- General
- Shield & Greathammer
- Trait: Indomitable 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner, Sigmarite Weapon & Shield, Warhorse

Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
- Allies – Coment of Casandora

Battleline
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
- Swords and Shields
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Archers (100)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 152

• I took the first turn, got all three maw krushas up the board in the hero phase, boys holding positions where my comet might fall
• 2 MK wiped out his classic freeguild swordsman screen and damaged the gun line
• MK 3 failed his charge and was stuck in the open , had he made this charge he would have decimated the gun line to the point it would have been less deadly
• Him getting multiple shots at the end of my charge phase through special abilities put the IJs on the back foot too...
• With all the buffs on his gun line, at the end of his first shooting phase he'd killed 1 MK and wounded the remaining 2 so much that their damage output was virtually nil (about 11-12 wounds I think)
• Shaman did some excellent foot of Gorking for MW output but failed to kill one of his heroes that was applying all the shooting buffs 
• This was the closest match, it probably could have gone my way with just one of these variables: 
  • EG 
    • Slightly more favorable dice, not failing MK 3 turn 1 charge
    • If his comet hadn't landed where his relatively static force was standing I might have been able to capture it first with MK3 on his underpopulated right flank

Game 4 - Skaven - Places of Arcane Power

Allegiance: Skaventide

Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders

Verminlord Warpseer (260)

- General

- Trait: Master of Magic

- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm

Warlock Bombardier (100)

- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Warlock Engineer (100)

- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Warlock Engineer (100)

- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline

10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)

10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)

6 x Stormfiends -2 Rattling, 2 projectors, 2 Doom Flayers (520)

Units

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

War Machines

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 107

• I was pretty screwed on this one only having 2 characters that could capture points, my opponent had 4 or 5 and one of them was the "indestructible" Verminlord Warpseer
• Gave opponent first turn as didn't want to charge in to his guns, not sure it would have made any difference if I had taken the first turn, the end result would have been the same but I might have scored a few more points
• He managed to kill my Wierdnob on turn 1 with warp lightning cannons teleporting through gnaw holes
• This left only my general on maw krusha able to capture any points
• General had a chance to grab a point but failed the charge that would have got him there
• General was killed by warp lightening cannons on turn 2
• All my rolls were terrible, failed all my charges but I think the outcome was inevitable unless his rolling had been particularly bad too
• Basically game over end of turn 2

Game 5 - Legion of Sacrement/Mixed death - Blood & Glory 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Leaders
Arkhan the Black Mortarch of Sacrament(320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (400)
- Lore of the Dead: Amethystine Pinions (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
Units
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112

 

• Gave opponent first turn as he didn't have much that could hurt me on the first turn except magic... I wanted to ensure a good charge when my chance came
• However,  he managed to kill General on Maw Krusha on turn 1 with Arkhan's 'Curse of Years' spell fired through a spell portal (culminated in "infinite" mortal wounds so would have killed anything that has no MW save) 
• Turn 2 he killed MK 2 with another Curse of Years, I tried dispelling but no joy, my remaining forces killed a bunch of models but graveyards only saw them return
• None of my destruction ability movement came off, I was on the back foot throughout felt like I was just occasionally rolling a save... 
• It was all over by Turn 3, there'd have been little left of the IJ's come turn 4 

So, apologies if that's all just noise but from memory, that's the highlights for you to chew over. In conclusion, the list isn't useless, it's just not going to beat high MW/Magic output armies, once your MK's have taken 10ish wounds each, you've pretty much had it. 

Happy to answer any specific questions. 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Jawz

[Jawz]

3 hours ago, broche said:

@Jawz 

Sorry to hear that! it's infortunate, cause i found your list interesting. I don't have the privilege to try multi-krusha list. I tought it could perform 
like the 3 zombie dragon list from LVO. 

If you have time to do a quick summary of your game, that could gave some input on how the improve the list? One thing i notice is the high number of drop
meaning you don't get to choose who play first. What was your overall strategy when going first/second?

Reply above, sorry I'm new, I didn't capture the quote in my response

[Jawz]

19 minutes ago, Jawz said:

Reply above, sorry I'm new, I didn't capture the quote in my response

Also, don't know if it's the done thing but here's a couple of snaps of the 3 Maw Krusha's combo FYI.

[broche]

Great wrapup! I must admit i'm quite surprised by the quality of the list you faced even after losing all your game.

I think your list suffer a bit from trying to alpha strike, but not really being alpha strike. Must have been hard to waaagh with ardboys so slow behind de MK.

They way i see it, you have 2 options:  go either fully alpha strike. Replace Ardboys with Pig, play gorefist or fit a cog (MK with Cog should all hit combat in round 1), keep 1-2 extra CP to stack waaaagh early. If you go alpha strike, you need more damage than your raw units (like +2 to +4 attack). Currently the Warchanter and Weirnob don't bring you much. 

or

Play a more conservative list. Use a MK with ironclad and scale to try to pin stuff, and use the 2 other to go after isolated unit. something like this for example:

MK	440	ironclad, ignax scale
MK	440
MK	440
fungoid	90
arboys	160
arboys	160
arboys	160
lifeswarm	60

The MK with ironclad and Scale should not die early if you slap a mystic shield on it. With clever placement, it could pin some ennemy units and survive for 2-3 turn if you can heal it. Meanwhile the 2 other MK can kill juicy stuff without getting hurt too much. 

Either way, charging the bulk of DoK usually a loosing strategy. Unless you can hurt them with a big waaagh, they'll just take you down in the counter attack. 

 

[Jawz]

19 hours ago, broche said:

Great wrapup! I must admit i'm quite surprised by the quality of the list you faced even after losing all your game.

I think your list suffer a bit from trying to alpha strike, but not really being alpha strike. Must have been hard to waaagh with ardboys so slow behind de MK.

They way i see it, you have 2 options:  go either fully alpha strike. Replace Ardboys with Pig, play gorefist or fit a cog (MK with Cog should all hit combat in round 1), keep 1-2 extra CP to stack waaaagh early. If you go alpha strike, you need more damage than your raw units (like +2 to +4 attack). Currently the Warchanter and Weirnob don't bring you much. 

or

Play a more conservative list. Use a MK with ironclad and scale to try to pin stuff, and use the 2 other to go after isolated unit. something like this for example:

MK	440	ironclad, ignax scale
MK	440
MK	440
fungoid	90
arboys	160
arboys	160
arboys	160
lifeswarm	60

The MK with ironclad and Scale should not die early if you slap a mystic shield on it. With clever placement, it could pin some ennemy units and survive for 2-3 turn if you can heal it. Meanwhile the 2 other MK can kill juicy stuff without getting hurt too much. 

Either way, charging the bulk of DoK usually a loosing strategy. Unless you can hurt them with a big waaagh, they'll just take you down in the counter attack. 

 

Great insights there Broche, I like the fact you've only subtly changed the list but I can already see significant advantages in those seemingly minor tweaks. 

Interestingly Ignax scales was on my maybe list but within the team we couldn't hail from the same realm as another team member and one of our guys "needed" thermal rider cloak.  I think you're right though, the 4+ MW save on the general could have made a significant difference. 

I don't actually have a lot of playing experience, prior to the tournament I'd only played against Fyreslayers, Pestilens, Rotbringers, Kharadron and Bloodbound just a few times each over the last couple of years of post-work matches. I have only really played about 20 games of Sigmar ever (including the tournament ones) so, it was a trial by fire  

One thing to consider is our 'team' was matching against a similar ranked 'teams', but as an individual, I kept facing team captains or the guy who couldn't remember the last time he'd lost a game. I might have found more personal success in a solo-tourney format, being matched against individuals with similar inexperience or list-flaws. 

Especially when I faced Nighthaunt, DOK and LoS  I had no idea what various units were capable of - my opponents were fairly forthcoming if I asked specific questions but some stuff was lost in translation and those "I could do this but it never comes off" came off.  I do now have a much better idea of those armies capabilities and would love the chance to go back with a tweaked list and try again. Alas that will have to wait until next year. 

"If you know the enemy, and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles!"  - I've got a lot of losing and/or reading to get through first I think 

 

[broche]

Ok make much more sense now. So even after loosing your first 2 games you could still be facing opponent with a better record, thats harsh lol 

Currently you'll see artefact selection for IJ serious list revolve around Brooch, Mirror Cuirras, Ignax Scale, Thermalrider Cloak, Daubing of mork, and Golden Tooth/Skewer.

Personnally Brooch should always be first pick with only a very few exception.

 

[Malakree]

Did another tournament today and honestly I've had enough of the ridiculous uphill struggle against even soft lists. We pay way more for stuff which is just worse than what your opponent is fielding.

The only unit which comes close to reasonably coated is the block of 30 ardboy, even the ggs don't pull their weight at 140 points when you look at some of the other cavalry. Mediocre attacks, good wounds but only a 4+ save with no heals or resurrection. This is all before you start looking at the complete lack of tools we have across the army of that our stuff is our next combat phase only.

Worst of all is how every new book dogs the grave a little deeper and further removes what fair matchups we did have. With that in mind I'm sadly going to bench the ironjawz for gloomspite till we either get a massive points cost reduction of fixed.

[tolstedt]

45 minutes ago, Malakree said:

 Worst of all is how every new book dogs the grave a little deeper and further removes what fair matchups we did have. With that in mind I'm sadly going to bench the ironjawz for gloomspite till we either get a massive points cost reduction of fixed.

Yeah mate, Adepticon is my last run for a while.

[Luzgurbel]

IMHO right now only Gitz and BCR (and maybe Tyrant spam Gutbuster) can actually make a good performance at tournaments. The BCR can still dish out a good mw spam while have some good tricks with healings and Yethees, and Sabres.

 

Sadly, that means that the most big and savage of all races of destruction are doomed to the bottom of the food chain, which is really really disgusting... We need a battletome more than any other faction I guess.

[newsun]

Hey guys, just finished getting caught up with the last 5-6 months of discussion on here, big shout out to all who offered their insight and experiences. Despite the state of the army book, I'm still endeavoring to play some Orks in Armor. So initially I'm looking at using this as the starting point for my hobby and play. Looking for thoughts on how you would finish this list off.

 

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
Ardfist (170)

Total: 1780 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 5
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 160
 

 

[broche]

14 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

IMHO right now only Gitz and BCR (and maybe Tyrant spam Gutbuster) can actually make a good performance at tournaments. The BCR can still dish out a good mw spam while have some good tricks with healings and Yethees, and Sabres.

Gitz and BCR don't have much better placing than IJ.  Best destruction should still be bonesplitterz, but they're not much played.

Also i'm not that sure that a new battletome is gonna do much. The biggest problem when they release a new army is huge miscost of some units (like doomwheel or plague furnace for Skaven) not that much new ability. You'll see Idoneth perform much worse when the Heel take 40 pts each in next GHB

[Malakree]

19 minutes ago, broche said:

Gitz and BCR don't have much better placing than IJ.  Best destruction should still be bonesplitterz, but they're not much played.

I don't agree on the Gitz front.

I know from attending slaughter and heat 1 that there are very few people who have seriously been playing them super well. Most of the lists are fluff lists, see the Troggherds at heat 1, or people are still learning the rules. Example being @Skeekrit who I know from our game is still learning/remembering all the new stuff from the Gloomspite book, even despite that he still qualified for the Grant Tournament! With that in mind I suspect Gitz will shake out to be our best army once people have the models fully painted up and some experience to go with it.

Compare that to Bonesplitterz who are a legacy faction. So there are going to be a small number of players who are bringing out the absolute best in the army, given that we haven't seen them properly podium in a while we pretty much know where they will land. 

There's a huge difference between comparing established factions, like BCR, Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz, with armies that haven't even been out long enough for people to have finished their armies with them let alone getting the experience.