AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Luzgurbel]

60 attacks at 3+/3+/-1/1 against 5+ classic armour. They do 22/23 wounds. The Brutes, do 24 2+/3+/-1/1 - 14 2+/3+/-1/d3 and (lets get a Boss Choppa) 7 attacks 2+/3+/-1/2, inflicting 33 wounds (I have considered the d3 damage as d2, so they cause 7d3 wounds, 14 wounds). All this maths with +4 attacks and +1 to hit from warchanter.

 

That's more or less 10 more wounds, with fewer models (so you can pile in and attack with all). It's true you have more wounds in the unit (5 more) and the command group and all that, but raw power, the Brutes clearly win.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Luzgurbel said:

That's more or less 10 more wounds, with fewer models (so you can pile in and attack with all). It's true you have more wounds in the unit (5 more) and the command group and all that, but raw power, the Brutes clearly win.

My point being that as the number of bonus attacks goes up the relative difference decreases.

When you then factor in the huge amount of random survivability which is floating around at the moment and our relative ability to outfight armies like dok or deepkin is very limited.

Also the 5+ armour save isn't a usable number at the moment. None of the things which are going to smash us really care about that kind of thing. 

If we remove The save altogether, so wych aelves,

Is the ardboys damage table. It's slightly better than 27 wounds which is 23 after their 6++

Brutes are averaging 35 which equates to around 29 after the 6++

Compare this to the no extra attacks ardboy are 7.5 wounds vs 10.5 from brutes.

The 4 extra attacks is a 23% wound rate increase for the brutes while with no extra attacks it's a 40% increase.

Point being that as you add on more extra attacks the relative difference between the two goes down. This is only aggravated when you consider the potential lost along with wound lost. At 12 wounds lost the brutes are now crippled while the ardboys have 40% of the unit still alive.

Given the vast amount of ways we are going to get chipped I find the survivability difference makes way more of an impact than the damage potential.

Imo destruction as it stands atm is an objective based allegiance not a combat one. There are to many factions which roll over us with ease.

[broche]

So @Malakree is right here. In fact if you look at @Andrew G Ardfist army, the list is pretty clever. It forgo everything Ironjawz are Meh at (ie. magic and trying to emulate a fast army) and focus on what they're good: Puting efficient units on the tables and generate shitload of attack. 

Starting from round 2 with 5 CP he can generate as much as 10 extra attack. With 10 extra attack you can saturate almost every. Let say you spend 3-4 CP for +7 attack and keep 1 or 2 for better day, 20 ardboys with warchanter will do 80 rend 1 damage, wich is more than enough to kill almost everything in the game. With +7 attack and same +1 to hit, 10 brutes will 80 damage as well (but 12 is rend 2). So at this point, it's irrelevant because you're already shredding thing.  So better putting your points in the wound and bodies. To counter that, your opponent will have to either kill the warchanter and/or the Maw Krusha but few army can go above 70 ardboys. 

Right now, the only reasons you'll want brutes is:

1. Model are awesome

2. Your not playing the brooch/pophet attack shenigan, so brutes does fill the roles of hammer and/or high wound count hunter.

Unfortunatly, most of us don't have (or want) to paint 70 ardboys or 18 gruntas so we can play one of the two competitive list

 

[Luzgurbel]

So, we are not good at magic, let's forget about Shaman or Fungoid? We are not good at fast movement, let's forget about Bloodtoof+Cog?

 

I know Ardfist could be the top tier of our army list, because you can play with almost 200 Ardboys, which is something overwhelming for many armies (or all, I don't have measured the damage output that other armies can handle). But, as broche says, many (or most) don't have or don't want to have those Gruntas / Ardboys to play with.

 

Brutes, imo, have something good over Ardboys: they are 5, and it´s quite easy they can attack all, while Ardboys, being 10 with that big base and 1" range could make you miss some attacks.

 

Furthermore, if we go forgo the magic, how can we, at least, try to avoid a signature spell? For example, a -1 to hit spell which causes us more troubles than mortal wounds (imo). Yes, with 1 mage who can just dispell 1 spell (and with no buffs for it) we can't face magic armies like Tzeentch or Death ones, but at least have the chance to dispell. One thing I've learned through the years is not to ignore a phase just because your army is not good at it, specially when we have 2 phases we don't play: shooting and magic (ok, magic is not a pashe itself, but you know what I mean).

We play without shooting, do we have to play without magic too?

[broche]

I think magic is more debatable, as it depend on your meta. Weirnob is not a bad model but you don't have access to spell lore so that limit his usefulness, and also there's lot of Legion of Nagash list currently in meta. Nagash basicly kill your magic phase, so you're just better off ignoring it.

However, if your meta is not heavy on Nagash, Tzeench or Seraphon, but lots of DoK, Stormcast, Khorne, Fyreslayer AND realm spell are in effect, that change the value of magic. 2 weirnob and a geminid, if you know most list can't dispel it can really be a pain in ass for the opponent. 

Shooting is much less dominant that it was pre-GHB18. With look out sir and cost increase, you see less ans less shooting.

A -1 to hit for Ironjawz is not that bad: most your army have 3+ to hit, you have warchanter to compente and brutes can get a reroll. 

[Hankster]

Hey, I have a noob question about the WAAGH!! ability. It says gives one extra attack on each mlee weapon. Does that include boar or grunta tusks? Or is it only for weapons like choppas?

I'm in the process of building my first army and I'm deciding how much synergy I can get between a warboss and gruntas or savage boars.

[Goose madness]

8 hours ago, Hankster said:

Hey, I have a noob question about the WAAGH!! ability. It says gives one extra attack on each mlee weapon. Does that include boar or grunta tusks? Or is it only for weapons like choppas?

I'm in the process of building my first army and I'm deciding how much synergy I can get between a warboss and gruntas or savage boars.

Waagh only affects melee weapons of Ironjawz units.

[Isotop]

1 hour ago, Goose madness said:

Waagh only affects melee weapons of Ironjawz units.

I think thats not the answer he was looking for. Anyway it is "50%" wrong as well.

(1) Megaboss on Mawcrusha: only IRONJAW models

(2) Orruk Megaboss: only IRONJAW models

(3) Orruk Warboss on Wyvern: all ORRUK models

(4) Orruk Warboss: all ORRUK models

Remember that (3) and (4) include Ironjaws (since every Ironjaw model has the Orruk keyword as well).

10 hours ago, Hankster said:

Hey, I have a noob question about the WAAGH!! ability. It says gives one extra attack on each mlee weapon. Does that include boar or grunta tusks? Or is it only for weapons like choppas?

I'm in the process of building my first army and I'm deciding how much synergy I can get between a warboss and gruntas or savage boars.

All Waaagh! abilities work on "mount attacks", since those are melee weapons. The same goes for the Mighty Waaagh! ability used by the Megaboss on Mawcrusha. The only thing not working on your piglets and the like are command traits and artifacts of power.

Reference: https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf , page 17

[Hankster]

@Isotop thanks that's exactly  what I was looking for. ?

[Superninja]

Played against Nighthaunt again.  Aqshy was realm and Relocation orb was the battleplan. 

I finished setting up first with 6 drops and had him go first.  He moved up.  Terrain was in the way of both setup areas, making setup a bit difficult.  A building hindered the nighthaunts advance a little, but he was able to manage it.  He failed a charge with a buffed unit and didn't reroll it. (afterwards he said he should have, I agree). 

On my turn I moved up with all my hero phase movement(got 1 rampaging). I then gave +2 to hit for my 20 ardboys and cast +1 damage for their weapons as well.   I failed to cast 2 spells but suceeded on Fireball and the +1 to damage to weapons as said.    Waagh'd for +5 attacks. (3 CP+1 from Aetherquartz and I rolled one 6 in combat phase=+5 attacks)  Moved up more in the movement phase, putting the ardboys at 3" and most of the other units in charging distance.  My goregruntas didnt get in (bad roll).  Wiped 2 units and should have had a 3rd with the 20 ardboys.  152 attacks +2/+3/-/ 2 damage from those 20 ardboys.  We called it after that.  

I brought the following list. 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
- 12x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 8x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 8x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 2x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas/3x Gore hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas/3xgore hackas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Pig Iron Choppas
Ironfist (180)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 141

 

[broche]

Wurgog is a nice addition! On subject we didn't talk much is magic. Now that most tournament use Realm magic i think it's a positive thing for Ironjawz (make weirnob more playable). I went thru malign sorcery in the last few day to try to evaluate the different spell lore.

Obviously it seem  Ashquy is the best for us, with 2 incredible buff (Inferno blade, +1 to wound / charge)

in Chamon, curse of rust is incredible (12'' range, -1 to hit and -1 to save) and final transmutation is not bad (if you're up agains sequitor for exemple)

Shysh and Hysh have 2-3 good buff/debuss as well (ingore rend, -1 to hit on a unit, stuff like that) 

The most disapointing are Ghyran (nothing really good except maybe shield of thorn) and Ghur (there's a reroll to hit on a Heroes, not bad on a Maw Kruhsa I guess but that it, and just way worse than inferno blade anyway!)

Problem is that against Nagash/Legions of sacrament and maybe Tzeench, it will be hard to pass your spell mid game.

Share your tough!

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by broche

[tolstedt]

26 minutes ago, broche said:

 

The most disapointing are Ghyran (nothing really good except maybe shield of thorn) and Ghur (there's a reroll to hit on a Heroes, not bad on a Maw Kruhsa I guess but that it, and just way worse than inferno blade anyway!)

 

 

Ghur has +2 to charge which I find valuable

[Malakree]

Honestly I'm leaning into fungoid+moonclan shaman.

It gives you 2 wizards for the scenarios which need it. 2 or 3 spells with solid multipliers and stops your opponent from just btfoing your one wizard.

The weirdnob is just to expensive for most lists and doesn't let us powerhouse against magic heavy lists.

Equally I'd rather spend the extra 20 points to split a wurrgog into those 2 gaining the increased utility, survivability and raw casting power.

[ShaneHobbes]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Honestly I'm leaning into fungoid+moonclan shaman.

It gives you 2 wizards for the scenarios which need it. 2 or 3 spells with solid multipliers and stops your opponent from just btfoing your one wizard.

The weirdnob is just to expensive for most lists and doesn't let us powerhouse against magic heavy lists.

Equally I'd rather spend the extra 20 points to split a wurrgog into those 2 gaining the increased utility, survivability and raw casting power.

I feel the exact same way, especially about the moonclan shaman. 80pts with a reliable +2 casting is great and a pretty decent spell. I'm thinking of fielding 2, maybe 3, of them. Just really sucks when he gets high off those shrooms.

Not sure how i feel about the fungoid in comparison. He has much better survivability but his unique spell im not too impressed with and his special ability, while great, is once per game.

[Malakree]

18 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

I feel the exact same way, especially about the moonclan shaman. 80pts with a reliable +2 casting is great and a pretty decent spell. I'm thinking of fielding 2, maybe 3, of them. Just really sucks when he gets high off those shrooms.

Not sure how i feel about the fungoid in comparison. He has much better survivability but his unique spell im not too impressed with and his special ability, while great, is once per game.

It's why I use them as a pair. 

A fungoid gives you the option for that 3rd cast in a turn and the rerolls are nice. Additionally the Fungoids survivability is significantly better than the Moonclan which makes it better at holding objectives, I agree the spell is garbage but you will almost never be casting that spell anyway. If I were to add a third it would be another Moonclan but they get so much better when you aren't specifically relying on them to get that one key spell off, I said back in the GHB17 thread that the Moonclan shamans are far better as the 2nd wizard than they are as the first. I'd say the opposite is true of the fungoid.

[broche]

Weirnob is correctly priced at 120 pts, that's not an issue for me. 

All of those (fungoid, moonclan and Wurgog) are great choice. However they comme with one main problem: they aren't Ironjawz. So first, you're limited in number you can take. Second they don't have raw casting/unbind bonus.  Third, they don't count for Mighty destroyer and (more importantly) number of units for Waaaagh and they also can't take item.  Most list play 4-5 ironjawz units and 3-5 heroes (usually betwen 8-10 units)

Moonclan shaman have 1/6 of just miscast. His ability is basicaly +1 to cast (no bonus to unbind) and is really fragile (he'll die outright once he get attacked). 

Personnaly a find that Fungoid/Weirnob (200 pts) or 2 x Weirnob (240 pts) are totally viable option. Stormcast, DoK, Nurgle, Seraphon are all army with magic but low bonus to cast or dispel, meaning you have good chance of dispelling anoying spell, and pass most of yours.

For me debate is more upgrading some warchanter to Weirnob. Since lots of lore include nice buff, it might worth it more than +1 to hit on your turn (as spell can last as long as 3 turn)

[ShaneHobbes]

19 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It's why I use them as a pair. 

A fungoid gives you the option for that 3rd cast in a turn and the rerolls are nice. Additionally the Fungoids survivability is significantly better than the Moonclan which makes it better at holding objectives, I agree the spell is garbage but you will almost never be casting that spell anyway. If I were to add a third it would be another Moonclan but they get so much better when you aren't specifically relying on them to get that one key spell off, I said back in the GHB17 thread that the Moonclan shamans are far better as the 2nd wizard than they are as the first. I'd say the opposite is true of the fungoid.

I've been debating trying out a Rogue Idol+Moonclan+Weirdknob for fun. Moonclan and Weirdknob with +3 to cast optimally. Also I just picked up a Troggoth Hag and look forward to trying her out. Not sure what the general consensus is on her in an IJ army but I like the model.

18 minutes ago, broche said:

Weirnob is correctly priced at 120 pts, that's not an issue for me. 

All of those (fungoid, moonclan and Wurgog) are great choice. However they comme with one main problem: they aren't Ironjawz. So first, you're limited in number you can take. Second they don't have raw casting/unbind bonus.  Third, they don't count for Mighty destroyer and (more importantly) number of units for Waaaagh and they also can't take item.  Most list play 4-5 ironjawz units and 3-5 heroes (usually betwen 8-10 units)

Moonclan shaman have 1/6 of just miscast. His ability is basicaly +1 to cast (no bonus to unbind) and is really fragile (he'll die outright once he get attacked). 

Personnaly a find that Fungoid/Weirnob (200 pts) or 2 x Weirnob (240 pts) are totally viable option. Stormcast, DoK, Nurgle, Seraphon are all army with magic but low bonus to cast or dispel, meaning you have good chance of dispelling anoying spell, and pass most of yours.

For me debate is more upgrading some warchanter to Weirnob. Since lots of lore include nice buff, it might worth it more than +1 to hit on your turn (as spell can last as long as 3 turn)

Maybe it's just a matter of experience but I've always had better games with a moonclan/fungoid than a weirdknob. I won't deny the + unbinding is always great but the extra 40 pts I save usually let's me squeeze in another unit of da boyz. And good God I'd never give up my warchanters. I play against a Nurgle army too much who seems to have minus to hit across the board.

This will (hopefully) change when we get our own spell lores someday in the next ten years.

Edited November 1, 2018 by ShaneHobbes

[broche]

@ShaneHobbes If you play just 1 shaman i don't deny that fungoid is a solid choice. But if you want to play more shaman, then you should consider weirnob. 

I played against Stormcast sacrosant chamber this week-end (no realm spell, lost a very close game) with Fungoid, Weirnob and Geminid, and i wasn't disapointed. 

With realm spell one option i was thinking  drop the geminid and upgrade the fungoid to Weirnob. 

Other option i'm considering is flusghing the MawKrusha and playing MSH, that way i can have everything (2-3 shaman, 2 warchanter)

[Superninja]

     After my last game, my friend and I got to talking about a few things.  He thought that I should try out leaving 200-300 or more just for command points to have a truly explosive Waaagh!  Obviously, this cuts into our wound and body count and probably cuts our wizards out as well.  However,  300 points would give us  7 command points(with battalion).  Coupled with the Aetherquartz brooch, there is a serious chance that you get a few extra when you waagh!   Then assuming we roll two or three 6's on the waagh!, there is a good chance you are adding +10 or more attacks.  +10 attacks for 10 ardboys using Big Choppas=120 attacks at 4+/3+/-1/1.  5 sets of 10 ardboys=600 attacks. 

Here is a list at 1500 points.   I have used only ardboys in this example build because they offer more wounds and more bodies to multiply the extra attacks with.  What would you add or change while keeping within the theme of a HUGE Waaagh!?

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waagh (or Ironclad for survivability)
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 10x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 10x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 10x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 10x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 10x Big Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Total: 1500 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 11
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

• How viable is this?
• At what point is it too much?  100/200/300/400/500?

Obviously 50-100 is pretty normal.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Superninja

[Lanoss]

I can’t wait to try out this gnarly, fun, krump-ya-opponents-face-in, IJs From Ulgu list! The Gu-Jawz!

I’m having great results from using this Bloodtoofs list and am playing with different realm artefacts to find interesting results

I typically hold back till turn 2 and then UNLEASH (4-8 extra attacks per model)!

Extra ‘Urty

Edited November 1, 2018 by Lanoss

[broche]

15 hours ago, Superninja said:

• How viable is this?
• At what point is it too much?  100/200/300/400/500?

Obviously 50-100 is pretty normal.

I would say max 200. extra attack become a bit irrelevant at some point. You need wound and board coverage.  Especially with the brooch, wich will generate another 3-5 CP (However i think days of the brooch are counted, i'm anticipating it will get an errata next FAQ).

Meanwhile, I've continued my spells analysis. I've focused on buff (in italic). I find buff are important, because early game you're general out of range for offensive spell, so if you play more than 1 wizard, you usually loose extra cast after mystic shield.

Bridge of shadow is probably one of the best addition Ironjawz can get early. With the charge bonus of ardboys, it open a whole bunch of option early game. Chamon, Ghur and Gyran are the 3  realms that offer limited oppening spells (only ghur +2 run/charge could do something, shield of Thorn is okay at most on a screen units)

Asquy
Inferno blade	+1 damage
Stoke rage	+1 to wound, +1 charge
Chamon
Curse of rust	-1 to hit, -1 rend
Transmutation	roll 3 dice kill model with roll higher than wound
Shyish
Night's Touch	units Ignore save modifier
Soulshroud	units Ignore spell
Unnatural Darkness	-1 to hits on target units
Uglu
The enfeebling	Reroll wound agains units
Bridge of shadow	Teleport friendly units
Aetheric tendrils	deal d3 mortal and disengage heros/monster
Hysh
Pha's protection	-1 to hit
Light of battle	Immune battleshock
Healing Glow	heal d3
Aetheric net	1 mortal and half damage on 4+
Banishment	Teleport an ennemy units
Ghur
don't remember name	+2 run/charge
Primal Hunter	Hero reroll to hit
Ghyran
Shield of Thorn	charged units inflict d3 mortal
sicklewind	12'' line, d3 mortal

Edited November 2, 2018 by broche

[Malakree]

So I played this list at blood and glory. Overall it was pretty reasonable and the main drawback was my own mistakes/greed.

Did manage to kill the 1200pt khorne dragon though so!

Imo the double grot shaman is mandatory if you are playing with realm spells, they are absolutely disgusting and must be abused. 

I also much preferred the ardboy focus than a brute focus. I primarily needed to pin stuff down and setup my massive waaagh! Turn. For that the 20 ardboys were amazing. On the unit of 10, they are "ok" it gave me another unit of bodies for screening/soaking/scoring and rounded the list out.

Having 5 characters who were wizards or had artefacts was an enormous advantage. That third artefact though, I think with the prevalence of death it should have been a boss skewer.

Losing the 1 drop was literally irrelevant. The fewest drops I faced was 7.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Prism Amyntok 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320) 13 shields + 2h
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) dual wield
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

Honestly I think this is as refined as I can get my bloodtoofs, that said I found it either fell flat or was an unenjoyable game where my opponent sat and watched as I rolled hundreds of dice.

This will probably be the last time I take a bloodtoofs/broach list until we get some serious changes. If I had the models I'd be running an ardfist but since I don't it will be a few different double monster lists. Either weirdest with idol or ironfist with double cabbage.

The one thing I really miss is my unit of 30 ardboys, 10 more shieldboys would make them impossible to shift.

[BobbyB]

I ran this at B&G:

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass

Battleline

Units
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Bloodtoofs (120)
Ironfist (180)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

Ended up 1-4, which seems to have been pretty standard for Ironjawz players at the event, but was a lot of fun to play and I was enough in all the games that I would probably want to give it at least another tournament (Friday was my first game of AoS 2) before I decided to change it.

Game 1 was gnarlroot Sylvaneth with Alarielle, Durthu and TLA. I gave him first turn, then killed alarielle turn one, got the double and killed durthu and a unit of dryads.  At this point we both thought I had it sewn up, but he had summoned a unit of scythe hunters turn one, and between them and the TLA, who was almost always -2 to hit he ended up tabling me. Couldn't deal with him constantly summoning units of dryads, all the minuses to hit, and it was relocation orb and the movements all went his way.

Game 2 was Beasts of Chaos on escalation, which is a bad scenario for me, as both MKs had to start in the far corner, so I'm forced to hold out to turn two or three to set off the waagh.  As it was he had 5 points by the time it all kicked off and even though I almost tabled him he made good use of ambushing and the herdstone summoning to keep enough objectives to stop me winning.

Game 3 was Sureheart Stormcast on total commitment, bit of a result considering the scenario shafts their gameplan.  I think my strategy was sound but I played it completely wrong.  Decided to take my two home objectives turn one then stick everything down one side to hold one on each side of the board after that, but I mis-read his deployment (and also think I had memories of vanguard wing in the back of my head) and instead of ploughing into 30 libs which I could have taken, I went up against evocators and retributors and got my army taken off. Also was sloppy and pulled the evocators into combat when I didn't need to.

Game 4: Stormcast again, I forget the scenario.  My big mistake in this game was the same as I'd made a few times over the weekend, I saw an opportunity for a maw krusha to kill something, sent it off on it's own then got taken apart, instead of holding back till I can get everything in.  This time it was a unit of dracolines, also failed a charge with the pigs because I'd kept them out of 8 when I didn't need the d3, but did need their bodies on an objective. You live and learn.

Game 5 my opponent didn't turn up so I played another Ironjawz player! We played blood & glory, he had gordrakk and the ironfist, two warchanters and a fungoid.  First turn was cagey and I think we both felt bad playing it like that, so I moved forward enough to give him a charge, but left the maw krushas covering each other, he used gordrakk to take one off, then I got up to +7 attacks and went back with everything else, taking out a huge chunk of his army.  He rolled badly for a couple of combats and I could get around the board with charges to nab the objectives for a major at the very end of turn 5.

Overall was a huge amount of fun, and ended up on over 6k kill points, not bad considering I wasn't including summoned units and I lost 4 games.  I think if I'd been a bit more practised I could have won at least one more game so will definitely give the list another run out.  No magic should be a big draw back, but I like not having anything to think about, and I don't think IJ do it well enough to focus on it, although I would be interested to try out a weirdfist.

[Malakree]

@BobbyB how did you feel about the brutes in the list, they seem incredibly slow compared to everything else. Would you swap to ggs or spend the 40 spare to get 5 more brutes and 2ggs?

I'd imagine a lack of bodies/wounds also hurt.

Shame about the 40 points spare, 10 more and you could have had an extra CP! 

[BobbyB]

yeah was frustrating, especially as I could take an endless spell but couldn't cast it ?

yeah low model count and was a big deal, but can't see a way around it without taking 30 ardboyz, but then I think one of the things the list needs is more units for the waagh, and a big unit of ardboyz wouldn't help with that.

Brutes did feel like they could easily get left behind, and swapping them for GGs would make the waagh easier, but they definitely felt more reliable in combat, so swings and roundabouts really.