AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

54 minutes ago, Dracothjay said:

Are ironjawz getting a new addition, or overhaul? Or am I just assuming?

Wishful thinking from the destruction community.

So I've got a small tournament later this month and I'm taking this list. If it goes well I'm going to take it to blood and glory aswell.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

What do people think?

Edit: Are there any other hysh relics instead the boss skewer?

Edited September 5, 2018 by Malakree

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Dracothjay said:

Are ironjawz getting a new addition, or overhaul? Or am I just assuming?

there was a hint of something coming in Adepticon by the GW spokemen there, unknown if it was specifically for Ironjawz or Destruction in general

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Wishful thinking from the destruction community.

So I've got a small tournament later this month and I'm taking this list. If it goes well I'm going to take it to blood and glory aswell.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

What do people think?

Edit: Are there any other hysh relics instead the boss skewer?

Unless the one drop is super important, I would be tempted to swap out the 2nd wierdnob for a fungoid and upgrading the burning head to cogs and the ardboyz to brutes.

more speed, more hitting power, and for 1 turn more spells with more reliability.

One thing to consider is that if the maw krusha dies, you are done for Waaaghs. I found the megaboss a really useful backup who allowed me to be a bit more reckless with the mawkrusha in seizing opportunities that swing games.

 

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

What do people think?

Edit: Are there any other hysh relics instead the boss skewer?

I've found the Guardian's Coronet useful, if you are going to YOLO the Maw Krusha in particular.

If you're taking the first turn, it can be good double-turn insurance.

Edited September 5, 2018 by PlasticCraic

[Banglesprout]

Looks nice @Malakree, very similar to my list except I've swapped one of your Shamans for the foot Megaboss... mostly just because that means I'm playing with the entire Ironjawz range, and I like the diversity

Good luck, I look forward to hearing how you do!

Regarding the tournament stats for Ironjawz.. it essentially says that you're more likely to lose any give game than win it.. but not by that much - you've still got a decent chance.  So you'll probably win 2 - 3 games at a tournament.. but are be very unlikely to win them all. I don't actually think that's a bad place to be in.

It'd be really interesting to see those stats broken down a bit further. I wonder for example if Gorefist, Ironfist, Bloodtoofs, and no Battalion lists have very different win rates.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Rock Lobster said:

Unless the one drop is super important, I would be tempted to swap out the 2nd wierdnob for a fungoid and upgrading the burning head to cogs and the ardboyz to brutes.

more speed, more hitting power, and for 1 turn more spells with more reliability.

One thing to consider is that if the maw krusha dies, you are done for Waaaghs. I found the megaboss a really useful backup who allowed me to be a bit more reckless with the mawkrusha in seizing opportunities that swing games.

 

For me the 1 drop is one of the big advantages and would rather have it than not.

Having tried the fungoid he just feels worse. Even with his reroll you still don't have the +cast that makes the weirdnob so strong, more importantly the weirdnob can easily overpower other wizards, he's on the level of Archan in terms of raw +cast/unbind. Equally I think the cogs are perhaps to expensive for what they do and to risky. While I love the +charge I've found they backfire as often as they benefit me so this list is me trying without the cogs  Equally I've wanted to play with the Emerald Lifeswarm/Aethervoid pendulum for a while, so again I want to try them out. If I was going to drop something it would be a straight swap of lifeswarm for cogs. Since I had 40 points left over I went for The Burning Head, in terms of MW output it's actually really solid, d3 to everything it passes over or ends within 1" of! Plus the RR1's aura seems like it could be very useful, consider the number of armies we face who just have RR1's to hit anyway and think of all those 1s the MK swings.

I don't have the 3rd unit of brutes  so it's not a change I can make. I've thought about it, I just worry about the number of models dropped and I use the Ardboys as my first wave, they pin the opponents and the centre of my line. With 3 shields and 7 big choppas they are pretty tanky and can actually put out some srs hurt, get up to 5+ attacks and suddenly they are throwing 49 attacks at 4+/3+/-1/1.

Generally find that by the time the MK goes down the game is over, I play pretty conservative with him until I fully commit. I find the 10" Waaagh! to be way less useful because you often aren't hitting the entire line. That's the reason I have him with Ironclad/Mirrored Cuirass in order to tank up, hopefully with Emerald Lifeswarm and Mystic Shield (from the 2nd wizard) I should be able to keep him up.

So yeah quite a bit of this is testing out some different things, No 2nd WC for example is a huge shift for me.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Malakree

[DerZauberer]

Thanks for the interessting list @Malakree!

But as @Rock Lobster said it's really risky, it's all on your Maw-Krusha, as you really try for those multiple Waaagh's with Aetherquartz und 2CP's from Bloodtoofs. If the opponent is able to interpret  your list he knows it's all about the Maw-krusha. But you made him tanky and you have the lifeswarm, so maybe it works out.
 
For me it looks like a Alpha Strike Build without the bits to ensure an alphastrike. I don't really know if Bloodtoofs / Onedrop is really that important when not going for Alphastrike with Cogs. Same for Aetherquartz. I could get the idea behind a Alphastrike list with two weirdnobs and several spells but i think the cogs are mandatory for it. E.g. get the movement turn 1, then get the extra spell turn 2. It would just fit perfectly into your list instead of the lifeswarm. But you've said you really want to try the pendulum and lifeswarm so i'm curious how they work out.

The burning head is tricky, it requires finesse to place as it's only wholly within 3" + 9" range. But if used correctly you can make d3 mortal wounds to the enemy unit, charge, gain the re-roll 1's and obliterate the enemy unit so they don't benefit from the aura. 

[Malakree]

46 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

For me it looks like a Alpha Strike Build without the bits to ensure an alphastrike. I don't really know if Bloodtoofs / Onedrop is really that important when not going for Alphastrike with Cogs.

Yeah, I was finding that I couldn't reliably alphastrike and a lot of the time I'm fishing for a turn 2 engage anyway. Big reason I want bloodtoofs is for the Bravery, I hate Bravery 6 so much...

 

[DerZauberer]

13 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Yeah, I was finding that I couldn't reliably alphastrike and a lot of the time I'm fishing for a turn 2 engage anyway. Big reason I want bloodtoofs is for the Bravery, I hate Bravery 6 so much...

 

Fair enough, i'm still into training with a classic bloodtoofs / cogs list and i share the same oppinion on less reliable alpha strikes. 

But i think weirdfist would be better for the turn 2 engage /magic playstyle with putting more wounds on the table instead of the bloodtoofs. 

I was tinkering myself with a weirdfist, it would look like this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Weirdfist (180)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

I've got the 30 Ardboy blob with Weirdfist buffs around two Weirdnobs for spell damage / tarpitting / objectives, one chanter for the 10 brutes, some gore gruntas for objectives/flanks and a reckless mawkrusha which angles for juicy spots or waaaghs for the brutes. 

Thoughts?

Edited September 6, 2018 by DerZauberer

[Malakree]

41 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

Thoughts?

So personally I don't think we should be taking Brutes in units of more than 5 now, we really are dependent on getting those sweet sweet extra attacks on the klaw/smasha.

I also think that for a weirdfist you want to tank up the weirdnob because he is so key. Your list has essentially spent 300 (340) points on him. I rigged up a list and had a bunch of points spare so I started playing around, you actually have the points to fit The Big G into the list which lets you make the Weirdnob your general, swap the second Weirdnob for a Footboss and give him SoJ for the lulz.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Weirdfist (180)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

Bit of a funky list but you don't want to cast Balewind first turn anyway as you want to be able to position the shaman. So throwing out the Pendulum turn 1 is reasonable. Then turn 2 you get the Voice of Gork to give you the extra reach and power. Lastly you get Gordrakk and the SoJ to kill off any really nasty heroes with some disgusting MW output. Definitely an interesting idea.

[Backbreaker]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Yeah, I was finding that I couldn't reliably alphastrike and a lot of the time I'm fishing for a turn 2 engage anyway. Big reason I want bloodtoofs is for the Bravery, I hate Bravery 6 so much...

If you're not aiming for a first turn charge, is a Bloodtooth necessary ? 

These points could be use for a megaboss on foot for example.

[Malakree]

7 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

If you're not aiming for a first turn charge, is a Bloodtooth necessary ? 

These points could be use for a megaboss on foot for example.

It's personal preference, as I said I hate Bravery 6 with a passion. There's also the third artefact, the +1 to charge(/run) and the 2nd command point, not to mention having the 1 drop option.

Equally I actually don't like the Footboss, I find him unwieldy and kinda mediocre. The only time he's good is with the Sword of Judgement which for me is a completely different list anyway.

Oh and you can also use the realmgate placement to mess with your opponents deployment etc. I've used it to stop sylvaneth woods going down in the obvious place for example.

[Backbreaker]

But you mostly have low size unit and your ardboyz alreary have a bravery buff... with the boss skewer or golden tooth...

If you don't like the megaboss, you coulg go for an Orruk Warboss with Waaaagh banner !!! Rerolling 1 to wound, and a whaaagh-like hability.

I agree with the other, if you can throw away your MK on a juicy target, you add something to your options in game. Right now, your MK is reeeeally important, you can't risk loosing him because you have no backup waaaagh plan...

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

If you don't like the megaboss, you coulg go for an Orruk Warboss with Waaaagh banner !!! Rerolling 1 to wound, and a whaaagh-like hability

If I had one that's what I'd do. Got something coming, I think, which I'm going to use for it. Its on the to do list.

And yeah I really miss my 30 strong ardboy unit. Again if I had the models I'd be running 90 ardboys and an artist, the thought of painting 60 more and the huge backlog I already have is stopping me.

The other thing is when I get my 2nd cabbage painted, so likely Feb or March, I'll try a 2 cabbage bloodtoofs list.

EDIT: As a side note, if I was going to switch off the bloodtoofs I'd like to run one of these two lists.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Gildenbane 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Artefact: Rune Blade 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Gorefist (190)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- 15x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 15x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas

Battalions
Ardfist (170)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 166

I can see the first being hillarious for a couple of games while the second would be a nightmare for your opponent.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Malakree

[Andrew G]

19 hours ago, Malakree said:

Wishful thinking from the destruction community.

So I've got a small tournament later this month and I'm taking this list. If it goes well I'm going to take it to blood and glory aswell.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

What do people think?

Edit: Are there any other hysh relics instead the boss skewer?

First impressions is you're spending too many points on non-wound models in a list that can't effectively alpha strike. In a lot of matchups (Idoneth eels, stormcast deepstrike lists, DoK w/ cogs, LoN/NH grimgasts, etc.) your opponent is going to be picking the engagements and you don't have enough wounds to absorb the punch and counterpunch yourself. 

I don't think the shamans are going to be able to do enough work in the first few turns to justify a 380 point buy-in to spells. It's also very unlikely you keep the +2 cast for more than a turn w/ this list, which you absolutely need to maintain to justify taking that many endless spells IMO. 

I would either lean into a high/bodies wound approach backed by the shamans/endless spells, or just commit to the alphastrike and go gorefist or bloodtoofs/ cogs with mostly gruntas. 

 

[Rock Lobster]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

If I had one that's what I'd do. Got something coming, I think, which I'm going to use for it. Its on the to do list.

And yeah I really miss my 30 strong ardboy unit. Again if I had the models I'd be running 90 ardboys and an artist, the thought of painting 60 more and the huge backlog I already have is stopping me.

The other thing is when I get my 2nd cabbage painted, so likely Feb or March, I'll try a 2 cabbage bloodtoofs list.

EDIT: As a side note, if I was going to switch off the bloodtoofs I'd like to run one of these two lists.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Gildenbane 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Artefact: Rune Blade 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Gorefist (190)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- 15x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 15x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 3x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 7x Big Choppas

Battalions
Ardfist (170)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 166

I can see the first being hillarious for a couple of games while the second would be a nightmare for your opponent.

 

I like the 3 mawkrusha list, would be very fun. Something very similar was run by a guy at the capital city bloodbath who came 2nd best destruction after myself. I think he actually decided to forgo the battalion though for a boss on wyvern so was rocking a real monster mash, personally I think the battalion is better though.

 

[Rock Lobster]

Taking a fresh look at Ardboyz they are potentially really solid with the multiple Waaaghs.

If I had the models for a grind it out kind of army I would look at:

Realm - Uglu

Warchanter General (prophet of the Waaagh!) (sword of justice)

Megaboss (-3 rend sword)

Warchanter

Fungoid shaman with cogs

Ardfist with:

Warchanter

20 x ardboyz (big choppas)

20 x ardboyz (big choppas)

20 x ardboyz (big choppas)

20 x ardboyz (big choppas)

This list could just as easily be Hysh for multiple Waaghs. The reason for Uglu in this case is to make the Megaboss and warchanter general very upsetting to potentially face and hence a target, the important part being they must be a higher priority than the ardfist warchanter. You lose the ardfist warchanter and you have 2 hero slaying people to deal with and all the waaghs, slay the megaboss and you still have a hero slayer and ardboyz coming back from the dead etc. The idea being if you lose 2 out of 3 early you still have a strong army to fight with, especially if you keep the ardfist guy.

Aside from that, 80 ardboyz move up and engage suicidally with the enemy. With 2 waaghs each and a warchanter buff (for 3 of 4 units), each unit can push out 80 or more attacks at 3+ 3+ rend-1. The numbers in the unit give you plus 1 bravery after suffering casualties, but you dont care too much about casualties as you hope to replace the unit.

Even without the ironfist they are not slow. If cogs go off they are movement 6 and plus 5 to charge, meaning an enemy 17" away is likely to get whacked over 60% of the time.

Some armies would find this tough to deal with. Imagine the gorefist alpha strike. You get smashed turn one and lose a boat load of ardboyz when they use all of their command points etc, then with their chamber empty - you bring all the ardboyz back in, waaagh them up and shove them back in his now neutered army.

[broche]

testing the ardfist for first time tonight:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
Ardfist (170)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 150

[broche]

Played against Sunclaw Starhost (2 x 40 saurus, 1 x 10 saurus, a slaan, an engine, a bastilladon, 2 salamander) on scorched earth. He had 6 drop to my 7 so he choose to let me go first. I hit a free move and choose to move the Maw Krusha. I burn the mushroom and cast Sword and Mystic Shield on MK. Mk hit 8 mortal on destructive bulk, and kill 22 warrior total, but take 5 damages in counter attack. His turn he move a bit, shoot some stuff and MK end up at 10 damages.

I won the roll and having the MK in bad shape i burn my 3 CP for +3 attack (no 6) and charge with 2 x 10 ardboys and the pig. Made a small mistake puttin a warchanter on MK instead of 10 ardboys. I miss mystic shield as well. I gamble that the arboys will finish the 16 saurus, but roll below average so no smash and bash. MK die, but Ardboys and Pig almost kill the last 40 saurus blob (he only had 1 CP for battleshock), and i'm able to burn an objective for 3 pts. 

So bottom of 2, he is a little in bad shape. MK is dead, but he have no model left and my 3 objectives are well defended (by brutes and ardboys). He could summon but cause of restriction it's not that usefull. He teleport Bastilladon to try to kill the brutes, but brutes roll good and he roll below average on his save and bastilladon die. He's just able to score 1. 

I won the priority on 3 and that was game.

Learning:

1. Not sure if ardfits is good. Didn't add a chance to use it. I'm not sure being aggressive with MK was a good option, but it end up turning good in the end.

2. I  really missed the retreat and charge from fungoid. I think no command trait come close to that ability.

Picture end of round 1:

[brankignole]

I'm thinking about this 1k list :

Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Aqshy
LEADERS
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Prophet of the Waaagh!
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
UNITS
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- 20 x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 10 x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
TOTAL: 990/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 102

The main points :

-Big blob of 30 ardboys with 10 of them equiped with shields,  Pretty durable, good to occupy space on the table.

- 5 Brutes as an elite force and 3 GGs for speedy unit.

- No megaboss !!! I struggle at 1000 pts with him because he is pretty slow so every time i had the possibility to move a unit during hero phase, he never catch up. Moreover, i don't have many units so the waaagh can become risky (i can't have everything packed on scenarios whith objectives)

- Warboss on banner on boar. 9" move so it's easy to place him where i need. A waaagh like command skill that is 12" range and can't fail. A passive that gives reroll 1 to wound to everything at 16". But he doesnt pack the same punch as the megaboss.

- Warchanter for the +1 hit. Prophet of the waaagh so that i can always try to waaagh if he has a good position or if the warboss dies. And the artefact that gives him 4+ Mortal wound protection to avoid magic snipes.

I tried the same set up but with megaboss instead of warboss and i could waaagh very few times but the megaboss cleaned some stuff. I really wonder what's better : a hero that can do good dmg, sometimes waagh and make brutes reroll 1 to hit or a faster hero that can reliably waaagh and gives rerolls 1 to wound to everyone.

What do you guys think ?

[Zambo]

I had my 1st game of AoS 2 last weekend it was a friendly game against Skaven list led by Thranquil (big dude with flame throwers) 30 stormvermin, storm fiends, weapon tens and lots of clan rats 

I ran MBMK, 2x5 brutes 1 x 20 ardboyz 2x3 pigs, warboss on wyvern, warchanter, Weirdnob, Grot Shaman on Wolf, cogs and swords 

had a blast against a great opponent and got a nice victory, mainly coz I deployed 1st and won priority for a double turn 2 but in a nutshell ardboyz and pigs tied up centre and left flank and Brutes, MBMK, wyvern, gobo n warchanter went tearing into the right got a luckyT1 charge with 1x5 brutes but stormvermin (bloody on both sides but goldtooth saved brute boss) 

T2 priority for me gobo cast swords on warboss killed him outright +5 against chaos for 20 pts is awesome, stormvermin no longer buffed MBMK + Wyvern tag team them into rat heaven also got foot off for a 2 stomp 7 wound on giant rat flame thrower (very gratifying) 

his reply ardboyz cut in half 2d6 mw from big guy hurts, MBMK down to 4 wounds n stranded out of position 

T3 priority again (gork was smiling on me) brutes charge Tranquil wyvern supports and he is kaput, storm fiends finish off ardboyz my opponent calls it as I have burnt 2 of his objectives and all of mine are intact 

My first impression of IJ in v2 

pigs- fairly gutless apart from a meat shield 2 turns n killed about 10 clan rats 

ardboyz- loved them +5 charge with cogs will catch people out they can dish it out and take it in return 

brutes- they dish out a massive amount of damage however without gold tooth both units would have run 

Wyvern- awesome support for MBMK fast and punchy and fairly survivable used his Waagh over generals as no rolling and I kept my brutes close 

gobo on wolf- worth taking as he is rapid can get exactly where u need him and that swords moment was A+

MBMK- a tank nuff said 

Weirdnob- my 1st successful foot ? 

Warchanter- a must support character 

Like I said the dice gods smiled on me but Zambo’s rampage has got off to a successful start 

 

 

[Backbreaker]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:51 PM, Andrew G said:

First impressions is you're spending too many points on non-wound models in a list that can't effectively alpha strike. In a lot of matchups (Idoneth eels, stormcast deepstrike lists, DoK w/ cogs, LoN/NH grimgasts, etc.) your opponent is going to be picking the engagements and you don't have enough wounds to absorb the punch and counterpunch yourself. 

I'm not sure we have to go all or nothing with IJ.

I find that we have a resilient army, our models can take a lot of damage and still fight back. For example, on last Brute Boss under some waaaghs (+3)  can hurt a LOT ! I think that instead of going for alpha or infinite ardboyz, a balanced list based on an ironfist/bloodtooth (without cogs to have a maximum of brutes/gruntas) can be really good.

For me the real question is if we can play without putting points into a weirdnob or a grot shaman, forgetting about magic and shooting, and just waaagh the ennemy to death ?

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

For me the real question is if we can play without putting points into a weirdnob or a grot shaman, forgetting about magic and shooting, and just waaagh the ennemy to death ?

Personally I think the weirdnob is mandatory. Even without endless spells it gives you access to mystic shield and MW output.

I also think that the +spell cast is super important for a bunch of reasons and keeping the one drop is a big reason to play Bloodtoofs.

[Backbreaker]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

keeping the one drop is a big reason to play Bloodtoofs

But that means no Gordrakk ! ?

[Andrew G]

1 hour ago, Backbreaker said:

I'm not sure we have to go all or nothing with IJ.

I find that we have a resilient army, our models can take a lot of damage and still fight back. For example, on last Brute Boss under some waaaghs (+3)  can hurt a LOT ! I think that instead of going for alpha or infinite ardboyz, a balanced list based on an ironfist/bloodtooth (without cogs to have a maximum of brutes/gruntas) can be really good.

For me the real question is if we can play without putting points into a weirdnob or a grot shaman, forgetting about magic and shooting, and just waaagh the ennemy to death ?

When I mentioned leaning into the bodies/wounds approach it doesn't necessarily need to default to 'ardfist. You can build some pretty meaty ironfists/bloodtoofs lists that can absorb alphastrikes.

Like I said though, 380 point buy-in to spell casting on top of 300 points on the battalions is going to leave you too thin to absorb a punch against the armies I listed. If you are going to go that thin on troops you need to be the army that's picking engagements and leveraging Smashing and Bashing to avoid getting hit. The only way to guarantee that happens is leaning more into more speed and lowerdrop counts  (gorefist/ bloodtoofs-cogs).

Going entirely in the other direction. I actually like the dual shamans, I just think they're better placed is meatier list that actually can maintain the +2 to cast and can grind long enough to actually get some solid value out of the those endless spells.