AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Brakkus]

@Hankster

Game went well, as I was able to pull out the victory, really, mainly because of the hag. I tried to cast cogs on turn 1 & 2 but my opponent had two models that auto unbind, so he used those right away. He was terrified of me getting any type of movement bonus, as he knows that's one of the big setbacks of IJ. She was able to get her signature spell debuff off once during the game and charged into that unit and was able to crush them in close combat as a result. -2 to hit and -1 to saves makes it tough for anything.

We played starstrike, and the first objective fell in the middle of the table, so I was able to park her there from turn 2 until the end of the game, so she scored the majority of my points. My opponent got her all the way down to 4 wounds remaining on turn 3 and I was able to regenerate her back up to 12 wounds by the end of the game, so that was frustrating for him. I unbound 2 spells with her throughout the course of the game and the second time I got the mortal wound ability to trigger and killed his caster that was on 1 wound remaining. She's 380 points and not listed in GH18, but you can find her warscroll and updated point value on the FW website. 

I really enjoy her and will be using her for the foreseeable future to truly get a better feel for her, as I think this was one of those games where a model/unit can do no wrong and it skews your view of their true effectiveness. My only real gripe about her is she can only cast 1 spell a turn, but it's not a big enough of a drawback for me to NOT play her; as I feel she's infinitely better than the weirdnob. Even though you can get 3 shaman's for the cost of 1 hag, I still feel like she's the better choice.

[Hankster]

@Brakkus

Thanks for the update. The regeneration of the Trolls looks great. I'm hoping that GW will eventually come out with a book that includes them so they can get allegiance benefits and battalions.

...but since the Grots don't even have a book yet that is probably going to be a while. Ahhhh well. As cool as the Ironjawz are, I kinda miss the old Greenskin armies with their mix of orks, goblins and trolls. 

 

 

[novakai]

I have a question, how does Prophet of the Waaagh! synergies with Aetherquartz Broach again? are you getting another chance of rolling for extra CP when your rerolling for Mighty Waaagh! 

[Skabnoze]

7 minutes ago, novakai said:

I have a question, how does Prophet of the Waaagh! synergies with Aetherquartz Broach again? are you getting another chance of rolling for extra CP when your rerolling for Mighty Waaagh! 

No, spending the command point is what triggers the ability for Aetherquartz Broach.  Prophet of the Waaagh! allows you to reroll the dice-check for units nearby after you have spent the command point.  The two abilities effectively trigger at different times and so they do not overlap.

[Hoseman]

Hi all. I'm going to use for first time my new ironjawz on a friendly 1k battle and I will go:

Megaboss (artefact Destroyer and Prophet of the waagh)

Shaman

Warchanter

10 Ardboys

3 gruntas

5 brutes.

Iron fist battalion.

I was thinking if is it ok to use the battalion on a small army... I know almost everyone uses that battalion and is great (and necessary) that plus on speed but I'm not a fan of battalions, I usually don't play with them (Stormcast, Idoneth and Undead are the other armys I play) so I was wondering if on 1k is better to get more ardboys or something because maybe on turn 2 we will not need that 1D6 "... I don't know but I feel like 180 points a bit wasted

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Hoseman

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

I have a question, how does Prophet of the Waaagh! synergies with Aetherquartz Broach again? are you getting another chance of rolling for extra CP when your rerolling for Mighty Waaagh! 

So basically the aetherquartz broach is used to stack multiple waaagh for the extra attacks.

Prophet of the Waaagh! Allows you to reroll any of the dice at the start of the combat phase.

The more Waaagh! You get off the broach the more dice to reroll fishing for 6s And the extra attack that comes with them. Both are maximising your extra attacks.

For example. Say you spend 3cps.

On average you will get 4 waaagh! Running from 3cps. At the start of the combat phase you roll 4 dice.

There's a 5/6 chance each dice won't roll a 6 (thus trigger 2 attacks not 1) on 4 dice is 48% with one 6 (5attacks) at 38% meaning you have about an 85% chance to get 5 or less attacks.

As prophet of the waaagh lets you reroll the dice then you can reroll any none 6s to try and get them.

This reduces the chance of getting no 6s to 23%. I'd do the 5 or 6 attack calculation but I'm under the weather atm and my brain isn't working.

Needless to say the more Waaagh! You have running the higher your chance of pulling at least one extra attack off prophet is.

Since we are focused around explosive turns, both high extra attacks plus smashing and bashing, maximising those explosive turns is very strong. This is especially true once you consider the low wounds a bloodtoofs puts on the board purely because we put 300 points into battalions.

That's the reasoning behind it at least.

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

Hi all. I'm going to use for first time my new ironjawz on a friendly 1k battle and I will go:

Megaboss (artefact Destroyer and Prophet of the waagh)

Shaman

Warchanter

10 Ardboys

3 gruntas

5 brutes.

Iron fist battalion.

I was thinking if is it ok to use the battalion on a small army... I know almost everyone uses that battalion and is great (and necessary) that plus on speed but I'm not a fan of battalions, I usually don't play with them (Stormcast, Idoneth and Undead are the other armys I play) so I was wondering if on 1k is better to get more ardboys or something because maybe on turn 2 we will not need that 1D6 "... I don't know but I feel like 180 points a bit wasted

 

No a battalion isn't worth it at 1k. We are quite an elite army and you will struggle to put wounds on the board with a battalion. 

As a comparison bloodtoofs at 2k is considered at the very top end of what you can put into battalions and that would only be 150 points at 1k.

The only battalion I would consider worth it is the ardfist, that's because your opponent is going to be lower on snipping abilities AND the artist functionally doubles how many wounds the ardboys have. 

Very few armies can go through 3x10 ardboys twice at 1k.

Edit:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)

Battalions
Ardfist (170)

Total: 970 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 92
 

For example puts 80 wounds of ardboys on the board then let's you bring them back. That's a potential 160wounds with a 4+ save, something which is hard to shift at 2k.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Malakree

[Hoseman]

Thanks @Malakree  that sounds great...

I thinned of:

Megaboss

Warchanter

Grit shaman

20 ardboys

Gruntas

Brutes

Chronomatic Cogs

 

I see the grot shaman is similar to our shaman but on 80 points... that's great.

The thing is I think I will need more speed because I feel like with 4" I will be 3 turns to get an objective 

[Malakree]

32 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

The thing is I think I will need more speed because I feel like with 4" I will be 3 turns to get an objective 

This is what running is for  

Srsly though if you want more speed add an extra unit of GG's.

[Hoseman]

Hi again... The megaboss can make his command ability twice a turn and give 2 or 4 additional attaks to all the units?

The heroes count as unit isn't it?

Thanks

[Malakree]

27 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

Hi again... The megaboss can make his command ability twice a turn and give 2 or 4 additional attaks to all the units?

The heroes count as unit isn't it?

Thanks

Yes to both questions. You will struggle to really abuse it at 1k but at 2k it can be super filthy.

My current record is +13 attacks with every weapon across my whole army.

[ajax_xaja]

Bit of an open-ended question, but are there any examples/resources out there of tournament winning Ironjawz lists, for AoS 2.0? Can't seem to find anything available.

 

How are people liking either of the big Forgeworld centerpiece models in their lists (Trog Hag, Rogue Idol). I'm looking to get one (or both!) of them, and I'm not really sure where they fit in for an army that's already as elite as ironjawz are.

[Imperial]

My list for today. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof 
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
20 x Moonclan Grots (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)

Battalions
Brute Fist (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Imperial

[broche]

12 hours ago, ajax_xaja said:

Bit of an open-ended question, but are there any examples/resources out there of tournament winning Ironjawz lists, for AoS 2.0? Can't seem to find anything available.

 

How are people liking either of the big Forgeworld centerpiece models in their lists (Trog Hag, Rogue Idol). I'm looking to get one (or both!) of them, and I'm not really sure where they fit in for an army that's already as elite as ironjawz are.

Not sure they have won a tournament yet. I guys posted earlier he finished quite high at a 30-man local tourney with bloodtooth (from top of my head he had MK, megaboss, fungoid, warchanger, 3 x 5 brutes, 2 x 3 gruntas bloothooth + COG)

Other than that most sucessful destruction list on the tournameent scene is Mixed Magma Dragon and a second place Bonesplitterz

[Hoseman]

So why are ironjawz not seen on tournaments? I cant see them as a bad army but seems like everybody feels like destruction and ironjawz arent worth playing it..

Is because of the need to use batalions? I see IJ like orc stormcast with 4" move... an army with all 4+ saves is very nice. Maybe it would be better to have healing or some distance units but Fyreslayers are supposed top tier and they are 4" move too but have some distance weapons... nurgle is making well too in tournaments and is a slow army, same as khorne.

 I cant see why an army with almost all units have rend -1 and save 4+ is not more "famous". Is for the mortal wounds?? Idoneth only has one unit that causes mortal wounds once per battle and is supposed to be a good army (ok, the tides rules are super cool plus the shipwreck)

I think if they did some scenohraphy idol or something and a unit of ardboys with crossbows would be so nice... 

[Malakree]

Low rend, low mw output, relatively expensive, relatively weak saves (compared to sequiturs at 4+ with RRs and defensive buffs in faction), no ranged potential, no defence against MW, very slow even with our battalions. Low bravery.

Ironjawz essentially suffer from being an un-updated wave 1 army. Compare this to something like DoK and it quickly becomes apparent where all our weaknesses are.

We are top of T1, that means we are strong and can place on top tables but need a lot of luck to do so. The T0 armies all have things which let them ignore some or a lot of the rules and our only example of this is SnB which can be broken by one gap in the daisy chain.

We play it because we love the army. Its not weak but it isn't going to be taking table 1 at a 100 person tournament without extreme levels of luck (20+ mw foot of Gork style)

[broche]

I think other army are more versatile. Fyreslayer is a good comparative to Ironjawz, as they are an old battletome too. They got new rule in GHB 2017, but probably lack option as well. But they are (a lot) more resistant, and have they have deepstrike option.

I don't think a Bloodtooth list is ever gonna win a major tournament. Gorefist might, but it's really difficult to win a tournament with Alphastrike army cause you'll eventually face a good players who know how to mitigate the strike and have enough left to win the game. However you should see couple of them hitting top 20-30 as it's the kind of list that will just destroy and average player field.

For me potential Ironjaw winning list are Weirdfist, or an heavy Ardboyz list (probably with Ardfist).  Weirdfist is the only list that have the potential to snipe important character, effectivly reducing an army effectiveness. The other can just take advantage of low cost per wound units and play a defensive objective game (if Ardfist is played RAW, it could be a nigthmare for army with weak shooting)

[Gdead909]

Assuming they dont snipe out your warchanter.

[Skabnoze]

7 minutes ago, Gdead909 said:

Assuming they dont snipe out your warchanter.

I think if you provide other prime targets you have a decent chance to keep him alive early in the game.  There is also the possibility of using something like the Palisade for protection.

The Ardfist is a one-use ability battalion, so it seems to me that the best strategy is to get as many ardboyz into combat and killed as quickly as you can - then use the battalion to bring them back.  It may be tough to snipe out a Warchanter if there is ton of Ardboyz in your face.  You smash as much as you can as early as you can in a suicide attack and then bring them back.  After that point your battalion warchanter is expendable.

[Vasshpit]

Does anyone actually get the Warchanter into combat or is he only ever kept back for the buff?

Ironjawz have a great to hit already so ive been wondering about foregoing him for a unit of Gruntas or a Gargant as alot of people run two chanters anyways.

Is he REALLY that necessary? 

Also, concerning Brutes, anyone ever run them with out the gore choppa and armed the leader with boss chappa. 

It looks like it would give a bit more consistent damage at the cost of less and better to hit.

Just running around ideas in head is all. 

[broche]

1 hour ago, Gdead909 said:

Assuming they dont snipe out your warchanter.

I think it's an acceptable risk. Look at it that way, there's not that much army that can snipe him effectively. Long range shooting has been nerf pretty hard in AOS 2.  If you keep him in cover, with look out sir it take something like 35 damages to take him out (withouth artifact, you can further protect him from mortal or shooting depending on what you expect in the meta). that 35 damage not on Maw Krusha or Brutes, i'll take that

I would start with something like this, and adapt to your taste. It will easily hit 160 wound at 4+ minimum, something lots of army just can't chew thru it. And army that actually can (idoneth, DoK) don't really have the shooting to take out the WC.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
Ardfist (170)

Total: 1610 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 8
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

 

 

[Superninja]

@Vasshpit

One of the things about the brute boss with boss klaw and brute smasha is that when you get extra attacks, it is with BOTH weapons. 

Second thing is that the brute smasha is a source of -2 rend, which we often need.

 

Warchanters are cheap way to get another leader to roll for rampaging destroyers, Frenzy of Violence can't be unbound because it isn't a spell, and when you add more attacks from a Waagh the +1 to hit goes a long way to helping those attacks land.   Also a cheap way to have more units around for a waagh to go off.

Ironjawz don't have a lot of reroll buffs.  The megaboss on foot has reroll 1's to hit on brutes only within 5 inches...not a huge distance.  The orruk warboss ally has I think a 16 inch reroll 1's to wound.  

So the warchanter, in a sense, is our reroll guy, except you just hit instead of rerolling. 

 

Not sure if he is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, but he is good and he helps us do what we like to do. (hit people more often). 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Superninja

[LewDog]

Hello got a question about the free d6 move with the ironfist battalion in the hero phase:if you roll high enough(obviously 3 or higher to break out of combat)is it treated as a retreat as it's happening in the hero phase and not the movement phase?

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, LewDog said:

Hello got a question about the free d6 move with the ironfist battalion in the hero phase:if you roll high enough(obviously 3 or higher to break out of combat)is it treated as a retreat as it's happening in the hero phase and not the movement phase?

No. It still counts as a retreat move. You can however make a charge with the Ironjawz Allegiance ability after retreating.

On topic. Personally I think that if we are going to create a top tier list it will be something like this.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
- Allies
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
- Allies

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 115

It's low on wounds but has good mobility. The weirdnob lets you put Mystic Shield on the MK, which is super important imo, and lets you throw out the occasional Foot of Gork to try and swing really horrific games (sometimes it just wins you games).

With the look out sir the amount of shooting armies has actually seriously declined which means people have stripped down their hate for it. Ironically this makes the Spear Chukkas probably one of the best sniping tools in the game at the moment. 

 

Against a 3+ save this is solid and the 36" range means that our opponents can't just sit back forcing us to come to them. There is also a bunch of armies at the moment which heavily rely on having key support heroes alive, the entire death list, for example, falls apart if it doesn't have deathless minions active. How many armies are packing a bunch of squishy wizards, and even if they don't have them it lets us chunk the big monsters before we need to fight them.

For the rest of the list, I think bloodtoofs is mandatory for me. It fixes the, frankly horrific, bravery issues we suffer while giving us the extra charge/run range, command points and artefact.

[Superninja]

@broche

How do you work out the 4 points for effective life thing?