AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Jabbuk]

Little detail about ardboys that I spotted during the review and haven't seen posted yet is that they will be battleline in IJ allegiance or big Waaagh! Only if they're taken in units of 10. So it means you can actually choose to bring a group of 5 to fill up some points but they're only battleline if you build them in 10s. So it doesn't really change the current setup I was trying to do I guess. I just have too many shield-equiped models 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Jabbuk
Typos

[Malakithe]

I didnt jump into IJ to play with ****** Ardboys models and spamming them seems to be what this is leaning towards. Bonespitterz made out waaaay better. Going back to Troggs/squigs or until Mawtribes release.

[Scurvydog]

13 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Anyone else feel like Ardboyz just completely overshadow GGs and especially Brutes?  I'm starting to feel less excited about this update.

At 90 pts for 5 it evens out. 15 ardboyz for 270 and 10 brutes for 280, same wound count, ardboyz get some shield guys for just a tiny bit of survivability. The brutes will dish out more damage per pt while the ardboyz will have some more bravery if close to something and +2 charge from drums.

It is far closer, too close even to matter much, choose what you like basically. So brutes and ardboyz being almost interchangeable and filling the same roles, we have almost no variation in our model lineup as I feared.

This book is much much worse than for example fyreslayers, who with a wide range of lodges came up with different mechanics to make each interesting, while Ironjawz still have nearly no diversity.

[broche]

6 hours ago, Malakree said:

Also you missed the key one, Big G has add 1 to the attacks of Smasha AND Kunnin.

Yeah I had saw it, it's clearly very good. If opposing army don't handle him there is good chance he'll stay all game. But he suffer from same problem as before he can't take trait/artefact to protect himself. We will see is cost too it might increase.

I think overall Maw Krusha are much better just for the fact that with SfV you end up gaining a life each turn, and it's descale is much less brutal than before (loosing just half efficiency at max damage) compare to like 80% before.

[Malakithe]

App is updated for warscrolls

[Wazzuli]

Not sure if it got posted, but just in case, The warscrolls are up on the NZ gw page. If so sorry for the double post! Lol

[Scurvydog]

If running with a Mawkrusha general you'd be crazy to not use Ironclad, that alone is so good a command trait it can overshadow the Ironjawz allegiance Warclans forced traits. At least it says add one to saves, so does not worth with etheral amulet which ignores modifiers, positive and negative, so keeps that cheese away, also unable to combo it with the reduce rend by 1 from ironsunz as they have a forced 1 CP trait (meh).

A Mawkrusha with ironclad 2+ save, metalrippas claw on choppa/hacka combo for 8 attacks with rend 3 and the big un for +1 damage to fist and tails will be a terror to behold. Use a warchanter for more buffs and possibly the healing warbeat for laughs.

 

[Malakree]

21 minutes ago, broche said:

Yeah I had saw it, it's clearly very good. If opposing army don't handle him there is good chance he'll stay all game. But he suffer from same problem as before he can't take trait/artefact to protect himself. We will see is cost too it might increase.

I think overall Maw Krusha are much better just for the fact that with SfV you end up gaining a life each turn, and it's descale is much less brutal than before (loosing just half efficiency at max damage) compare to like 80% before.

Big G is 540 points while the cabbage has gone up to 460. So there's only 80 points difference now and his CA is way better.

Also 

4 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

If running with a Mawkrusha general you'd be crazy to not use Ironclad, that alone is so good a command trait it can overshadow the Ironjawz allegiance Warclans forced traits. At least it says add one to saves, so does not worth with etheral amulet which ignores modifiers, positive and negative, so keeps that cheese away, also unable to combo it with the reduce rend by 1 from ironsunz as they have a forced 1 CP trait (meh).

A Mawkrusha with ironclad 2+ save, metalrippas claw on choppa/hacka combo for 8 attacks with rend 3 and the big un for +1 damage to fist and tails will be a terror to behold. Use a warchanter for more buffs and possibly the healing warbeat for laughs.

 

IMO the only base trait worth it is 24" WAAAGH!

The bloodtoofs and random extra allegiance are also really good choices which fix your trait.

We're really leaning into the warchanter and once per game waaagh! Ability.

The third allegiance let's your warchanters buff 3 units with the +1 damage instead of 1. So 2 warchanters are putting up 6 buffs across the army.

In all honesty though I think the Big WAAAGH! Is going to be better than ironjawz even without any BS units.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Malakree

[broche]

6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Big G is 540 points while the cabbage has gone up to 460. So there's only 80 points difference now and his CA is way better.

Yeah 540 is less than I expected for Big G! But the trait for Krusha seem really good also. It will be tough call (or you can play both for 1000 pts)  

But in all honesty Ironclad + etheral amulet + mystic shield is almost auto pick. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by broche

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

I feel we are the first army that got overall worse after getting a tome.

[broche]

2 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

I feel we are the first army that got overall worse after getting a tome.

Well, your feeling is wrong

[Scurvydog]

9 minutes ago, Malakree said:

IMO the only base trait worth it is 24" WAAAGH!

The Ironjawz Whaagh is so incredibly poor, roll 11+ with a d6+units within range 18 or 24 with that trait, a 2k Ironjawz army running MSU will not have more than 10 units in most cases, so you need them ALL in range and alive to even get a Whaagh working. Getting that command trait for such an unreliable and underwhelming command ability you can use ONCE per battle is not something I quite follow. In the Great Whaagh it is not once, but most likely removes or takes a huge hit on all your essential buffs, no thanks.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Scurvydog

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

3 minutes ago, broche said:

Well, your feeling is wrong

It may be hyperbole but the sensation is not one that fades easily. We got stuff but got taken a ton of it too, specially brutes.

[Scurvydog]

Checking the official warscroll builder for stormcasts and all their named heroes can not choose artifacts or traits as expected but they can choose mount traits. It seems the keyword is the important part (gasp), so going by presedence and Gordrakks mount also saying "Mawkrusha, Big Teef" and having the Mawkrusha keyword, it is exactly the same as the stormcast named characters and their named mounts.

RAW there is nothing preventing Gordrakkfrom taking a mount trait, so I learned something today. This definitely brings him up a notch taking +1 dmg to his mount trait. 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

That or maybe picking the +4 ignores trait.

[broche]

19 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

It may be hyperbole but the sensation is not one that fades easily. We got stuff but got taken a ton of it too, specially brutes.

Basically we went from an army with on built (take a MK an aetherquartz brooch and waaagh as much as you can) to ton of new ability, mount trait and free bonus. The lose of brutes boss is irrelevant to what we get in exchange. Warchanter can even heal now!

[PlayerJ]

Don't think I saw if anyone has said it, but if you take a ironjawz sub-faction, your general must take that sub-factions command trait

[umpac]

59 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

In the Great Whaagh it is not once, but most likely removes or takes a huge hit on all your essential buffs, no thanks.

Is there a Cap om waaagh pts? Assuming there isn't you will easily generate 44+ waaagh pts by turn 3-4 and have waaaghs that doesn't drain your points below 20..

[Scurvydog]

3 minutes ago, umpac said:

Is there a Cap om waaagh pts? Assuming there isn't you will easily generate 44+ waaagh pts by turn 3-4 and have waaaghs that doesn't drain your points below 20..

well on a 2-5 you halve your points. 1 resets to 0 and 6 keep all points. Having so many points you still risk losing all, and you will only get so high with Gordrakk and at least 2 warchanters (and keeping them all alive). Gordrakk will be a MAGNET for every single ability the enemy can throw at him, especially when they figure out he is the main source that generates your buffs.

[umpac]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

AAAGH!

The Ironjawz Whaagh is so incredibly poor, roll 11+ with a d6+units within range 18 or 24 with that trait, a 2k Ironjawz army running MSU will not have more than 10 units in most cases, so you need them ALL in range and alive to even get a Whaagh working

Just watched the review, didn't he read that a roll up to 11 is +1 A and 12+ is +2 A? That means it can't fail, or what am I missing?

Edit: Yeah keeping Gordrakk alive will be impossible vs certain armies for sure, but I remember reading you also generate it with the savage casters and doing "orcy" stuff (assuming it's combat related). Guess we'll see how well it works in-game.

Edited September 28, 2019 by umpac

[Scurvydog]

1 minute ago, umpac said:

Just watched the review, didn't he read that a roll up to 11 is +1 A and 12+ is +2 A? That means it can't fail, or what am I missing?

Just rewatched it, he goes over it rather quick, but you are right, still it is only 1 time per game, so while better, I still would not use my command trait to extend the range from 18" to 24", then I would just go with one of the clans.

[broche]

Da Choppa seem really good: 3 target for warchanter. But i think Ironsunz is the best. -1 to hit first round and the worsen rend 1 with Ironclad + mystic shield is nuts. There's also seem to be a mount trait that give -1 to hit. 

I just realized you can't use Etheral amulet with Ironclad, but Da shinny armour should do the job.

Edit: It seem you can't take Ironclad with Ironsunz artefact cause it replace your General command trait. Sad... but it's better like this

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

I feel we are the first army that got overall worse after getting a tome.

Have you seen the Blades of Khorne topic? I think at one point the mods had to step in because there was a lot of negativity at the launch of their new book.

1 hour ago, PlayerJ said:

Don't think I saw if anyone has said it, but if you take a ironjawz sub-faction, your general must take that sub-factions command trait

That has been the standard for subfactions. Your first item must also be the subfaction item. It's a "tax" to get the benefits of the extra army wide ability and command ability.

Edited September 28, 2019 by kenshin620

[Kasper]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I didnt jump into IJ to play with ****** Ardboys models and spamming them seems to be what this is leaning towards. Bonespitterz made out waaaay better. Going back to Troggs/squigs or until Mawtribes release.

So you worry about minmaxing your units but then want to go back to Squigs? Dude what the actual ****** 😂 Just use whatever you fancy man

[Kizkull]

Hi! How cost the weirdnoob shaman?