DanielFM Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, chord said: Knight Venator. Highly Mobile, elevated so easy to see over objectives. Do you really value the KV? It's one of the first "buy for coolness" units I dropped from my army. Outside of the turn of awesomeness (if it doesn't miss, not wound, get saved or roll poorly for damage) it shoots worse than a unit of Javelin Prosecutors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Just now, DanielFM said: Do you really value the KV? It's one of the first "buy for coolness" units I dropped from my army. Outside of the turn of awesomeness (if it doesn't miss, not wound, get saved or roll poorly for damage) it shoots worse than a unit of Javelin Prosecutors. I do value it a lot. 30" shooting range plus its high move value means almost nothing is safe from it. It flys so terrain is never an issue and we play with LOS so seeing over units is important. The bow hits on 2+ wounds on 3+ and with a -1 rend is great for 3 attacks. The eagle has no rend unless it gets a 6+ then it has -3. And that eagle bonus also works in melee (which you should avoid with him). A unit of prosecutors is 3 ranged attack at a shorter distance (2 of which have no rend) and they have a worse save. Sure the star fated arrow rarely goes off on its own, but the luckstone helps or a loremaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I think the venator looks very good this edition with the command points change and a few other things. May start taking mine (and azyros) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Veyne Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I have to say I really rate the Venator. His range and the star fated arrow can easily scare you opponent into deploying badly. He might not do that much damage (I've always been lucky with the SFA) but the perceived threat can do more damage. I do wonder if with look out sir he might suffer a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 After multiple failed atempts to kill enemy heroes with Venators SFA I just started to do double SFA with bless weapons to scythe through enemy hordes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I think examining the Venator just for the star fated arrow can be a trap. I tend to not consider that when bringing him. For me its threat range plus 6 shooting attacks. I agree look out sir will really hurt him the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Kugane said: Personally I find that we are mostly playing at 2000 points, and with 1 box of Soul Wars there is no way we are reaching 2k points anyways. I believe these boxes were designed to buy in multiples and split and are then supplemented with easy to build kits. Also, I see no reason why anyone cannot just kitbash/convert some models to fit their needs. They always Are nothing is meant to be a 2000 point army off 80 bucks if you split. Also for death who wants just 1 20 man chain rasp horde? Both sides to have a big army need 2 or 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, chord said: A unit of prosecutors is 3 ranged attack at a shorter distance (2 of which have no rend) and they have a worse save. Nope, it's 4 attacks. Remember the prime shoots twice. 2 of them rend -1, two rend 0. And all of them damage 2 if shot from 9 away. I will run the numbers and see how they fare against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, DanielFM said: Nope, it's 4 attacks. Remember the prime shoots twice. 2 of them rend -1, two rend 0. And all of them damage 2 if shot from 9 away. I will run the numbers and see how they fare against each other. Ah good point I forgot about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, chord said: Ah good point I forgot about that. I was right. Knight Venator does on average 1,86 wounds to a 4+ save unit, while Javelin Prosecutors do 2,06. For 100 points, the only thing they lose is range. They aren't even all that less armoured, as they reroll ones. I'm not really sold on the Venator. Outside SFA, he is incredibly underwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, DanielFM said: I was right. Knight Venator does on average 1,86 wounds to a 4+ save unit, while Javelin Prosecutors do 2,06. For 100 points, the only thing they lose is range. They aren't even all that less armoured, as they reroll ones. I'm not really sold on the Venator. Outside SFA, he is incredibly underwhelming. are those from outside 9"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikosan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Has anyone been toying around with lists given the new points we've seen? I am having a hard time leaving any points for spells or command points, let alone battalions. I can never seem to fit enough bodies and now possibly having to cover not only objectives but grave sites and gnarl maws to block summoning I think we will be stretched even thinner. Any suggestions for this conundrum besides allies of 40 skinks, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 53 minutes ago, chord said: are those from outside 9"? Yep. Calculated with damage 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Just now, DanielFM said: Yep. Calculated with damage 2 Can you run the numbers for outside 9"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, Mikosan said: Has anyone been toying around with lists given the new points we've seen? I am having a hard time leaving any points for spells or command points, let alone battalions. I can never seem to fit enough bodies and now possibly having to cover not only objectives but grave sites and gnarl maws to block summoning I think we will be stretched even thinner. Any suggestions for this conundrum besides allies of 40 skinks, lol. I'm really leaning toward MSU. The Ballista at 100 points makes it possible attractive as an objective sitter, likewise Castigators at 80. I'm not doing any list building until I see the warscrolls for the remaining models though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitloze Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 What do you guys think pure Vanguard will be like in 2.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, chord said: Can you run the numbers for outside 9"? I don't understand. You are asking me the same I did. I calculated outside 9 (with damage two). Within 9, Prosecutors would do exactly half that wounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 4 hours ago, DanielFM said: I don't understand. You are asking me the same I did. I calculated outside 9 (with damage two). Within 9, Prosecutors would do exactly half that wounds OK, my bad I misunderstood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synidus Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 That's a damned shame because i really wanted to add 2 Venators in my list to supplement my hybrid vanguard list. I thought 2 Venators would be able to provide long range fire support (6 shots each). Your calculation was done with units of 3 Prosecutors? More importantly - Is there a place for Venators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, Synidus said: That's a damned shame because i really wanted to add 2 Venators in my list to supplement my hybrid vanguard list. I thought 2 Venators would be able to provide long range fire support (6 shots each). Your calculation was done with units of 3 Prosecutors? Yeah, three Prosecutors with Prime and trident. Default configuration. I think you would be better with a pair of Celestar Ballista, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomParry84 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Hello everyone, I've been looking for a Stormcast whatsapp for a while but couldn't find one, so set this one up instead: https://chat.whatsapp.com/Es67oVXW0UI6hJwE8q3bvH Feel free to join! Only the faithful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The >9" restriction on Prosecutor javelins is actually significant now that you can't shoot out of melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Synidus said: That's a damned shame because i really wanted to add 2 Venators in my list to supplement my hybrid vanguard list. I thought 2 Venators would be able to provide long range fire support (6 shots each). Your calculation was done with units of 3 Prosecutors? More importantly - Is there a place for Venators? Well a 42" range for senators is massively bigger than the 30" for Prosecutors. I run prosecutors on occasion, but I do think Venators will have a place in some lists in 2.0, especially when run in conjunction with a Ballista and other shooting units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Synidus said: That's a damned shame because i really wanted to add 2 Venators in my list to supplement my hybrid vanguard list. I thought 2 Venators would be able to provide long range fire support (6 shots each). Your calculation was done with units of 3 Prosecutors? More importantly - Is there a place for Venators? The venator still have a better threat range, and because of that, better mobility. Prosecutors need to be 18" from the ennemy to be able to participate in the fight. The prosecutor can stay far away, shoot while being where he want (for example, in cover) He is very good to grab a backfield or faraway objective, because he will be able to do so while still firing from across the board. His 3+ save also mean he is 2+ in cover, which can make him infuriating to kill if the opponent doesn't have mortal wounds. I lost the count of all the time i sent my venator holding someone in melee, risking pretty much nothing with his save, while sniping opponents far away. Another thing to note : if your prosecutor unit take 4 wound, it's two dead guys, and less attacks. If the venator loose 4 wounds... well, he is still firing at full potential. The best way to use his arrow is not to immediatly use it. Keep it for turn 2, or 3 if you can afford it. The Venator is a excellent DISTRACTION CARNIFEX, and your opponent will consistently have him in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, Richelieu said: Well a 42" range for senators is massively bigger than the 30" for Prosecutors. I run prosecutors on occasion, but I do think Venators will have a place in some lists in 2.0, especially when run in conjunction with a Ballista and other shooting units. True and as a hero they can be used to trigger some of the generic command abilities on nearby non-hero units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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