Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[kuroyume]

1 hour ago, DanielFM said:

But Starsoul maces will be weak. That's almost a fact.

Agree, the entire appeal of the Starsoul Mace is the fact that it's autohit.  If it loses that, the basic retributor hammer is probably better, especially if you park a LCoF nearby. Good thing I saved the hammer heads when I put together my starsoul maces.

[silentdeathz]

2 hours ago, DanielFM said:

That's all fine and dandy, but run the numbers and tell me what's better: a simple Lightning Hammer or a Starsoul mace hitting on 3+. 

I'm not really sure what your point is? I specifically made an example of how there will be winners and losers with any major shift in game design. 

You replied by telling me to 'run the numbers' and come to the conclusion I already stated. 

You can't hamstring an entire game system and the overall design ethos you want going forward just because it might temporarily make a unit weaker. 

Sooner or later paladins will get a rework, or stat adjustments if they end up requiring it. 

As it currently stands, we don't even have the full picture of what the 'current' situation will be. 

It's akin to complaining that magic shouldn't receive the rework it's getting simply because khorne won't be positively affected due to lack of spellcasting, and lamenting gw for being out of touch; despite them already having addressed how there will have to be some short term winners and losers. 

[BlooDeck]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/15/15th-may-faction-focus-stormcast-eternalsgw-homepage-post-3/

Between this and the Nighthaunt announcement I think we might just have the starter set. 22 Stormcast in total seems a nice rounded force to start around. 

[kuroyume]

1 minute ago, BlooDeck said:

Between this and the Nighthaunt announcement I think we might just have the starter set. 22 Stormcast in total seems a nice rounded force to start around. 

Yeah, makes sense, since the Starter is likely to be the first release, that they would be previewing those units first.

[chord]

"Having overseen the Anvil of Apotheosis – where the souls of dead Stormcast Eternals are reforged to life, the Lord-Arcanums heal their fellow warriors and return them to battle nigh-instantly."

Stormcast summoning?

 

[PJetski]

Maybe resurrection, but probably not summoning

[Nin Win]

I'm hoping a Lord-Arcanum muses about reforging in a novel or something.  I've liked how the reforging process is different for everyone that goes through it and hope to hear from a character who has been there for a lot of it.

I've decided to sell my magic cards and set the money aside for these new stormcast.  I like every model.  The Sequitors are especially cool as it lets me get more shield and weapon type stormcast without duplicating on liberators any more.  I know some people love having 90+ of the same model like big hordes of skellingtons or skaven or whatever, but I find after about 10-20 I'm done with a particular unit.  So the Sequitors are perfect for me.

[generalchaos34]

25 minutes ago, Nin Win said:

I'm hoping a Lord-Arcanum muses about reforging in a novel or something.  I've liked how the reforging process is different for everyone that goes through it and hope to hear from a character who has been there for a lot of it.

I've decided to sell my magic cards and set the money aside for these new stormcast.  I like every model.  The Sequitors are especially cool as it lets me get more shield and weapon type stormcast without duplicating on liberators any more.  I know some people love having 90+ of the same model like big hordes of skellingtons or skaven or whatever, but I find after about 10-20 I'm done with a particular unit.  So the Sequitors are perfect for me.

Split the box! Thats what i'm doing. 

 

And if you check the malign portents site they just had a short story about a SCE resisting his reforging and the Knight Veritant (?) who held the door to keep him from escaping. 

[DanielFM]

4 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said:

Split the box! Thats what i'm doing. 

 

And if you check the malign portents site they just had a short story about a SCE resisting his reforging and the Knight Veritant (?) who held the door to keep him from escaping. 

I'm pretty sure the Stormcast holding the door is one of the new Sacrosanct units.

[Kako]

6 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

I'm pretty sure the Stormcast holding the door is one of the new Sacrosanct units.

Definitely. Named Kavastus Seven-sense. One of my favorite short stories. Hope to see him again in the books.

[Nin Win]

It will depend what's in the box.  If it's like Dark Imperium with a big book inside then I'm probably more likely to trade the death stuff for more stormcast with someone else who buys the starter so we can both have the book and twice the miniatures.

[PJetski]

Based on what we've been shown I think it's likely that the stormcast will have monopose models and limited weapon options, similar to the first starter box.

Personally I'm going to get 1 of the starter boxes and fill out the rest with the actual kits

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I guess we know what unit was on the cover of Soul Wars now.

[Nin Win]

45 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Based on what we've been shown I think it's likely that the stormcast will have monopose models and limited weapon options, similar to the first starter box.

Personally I'm going to get 1 of the starter boxes and fill out the rest with the actual kits

That makes sense.  For me the only thing that was missing from the first starter was a special weapon guy or two.  It's possible that the Sequitors in the starter will come with at least one armed with a two handed weapon.

I get the desire for more weapon options though-- the liberators with swords look great and the grand weapons in the box are amazing.  And there's really no comparison between the starter prosecutors with 2 out of 3 being identical and the full kit with all its options.

If the 40k Deathguard and Primaris releases are any indication, I really don't know if they'll make the new kits for Stormcast in the same way as last time.  It could be that there will be way less weapon options in the full kits and slightly more in the easy to build ones-- I don't mean weapon options for a given model, but one model having the weapon option like how the plague marines 3 pack comes with one guy with a power fist and another with a heavy plague weapon.

[Aelfric]

Are the new basic units in eights because there are eight winds of magic, do you think?

[BURF1]

 

I like that the new wizard has a self destruct button.

[Richelieu]

11 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

 

I like that the new wizard has a self destruct button.

I am underwhelmed by her.  I think that without a bonus to cast the unique spell is too expensive.  And the self destruct button is at a range that you never want your wizards to be at (granted she has a stupid good save for a wizard).  The once per game auto unbind is good but I bet she'll be 120 points which is too much for the situational things she can do.  If she is 100 she could be OK.  

Honestly though...I think that slightly underwhelming is exactly where most models should be.  I want the choice of what to include in my army to be difficult.  Auto-includes make list building boring and formulaic.

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Based on what we've been shown I think it's likely that the stormcast will have monopose models and limited weapon options, similar to the first starter box.

Personally I'm going to get 1 of the starter boxes and fill out the rest with the actual kits

Not to mention the inclusion of female stormcast grunts so I'd assume arms may have some compatibility issues.

 

The middle crossbow appears female. Not only is the torso smaller, the shoulder armor seems smaller as well. They could also do what they have done with Necromunda and have arms that normally should be used with a specific torso.

 

[BURF1]

Just now, Richelieu said:

I am underwhelmed by her.  I think that without a bonus to cast the unique spell is too expensive.  And the self destruct button is at a range that you never want your wizards to be at (granted she has a stupid good save for a wizard).  The once per game auto unbind is good but I bet she'll be 120 points which is too much for the situational things she can do.  If she is 100 she could be OK.  

Honestly though...I think that slightly underwhelming is exactly where most models should be.  I want the choice of what to include in my army to be difficult.  Auto-includes make list building boring and formulaic.

How good the wizards are is going to largely depend on how the relics/command traits/command abilties/spell lores shake out. Model's great and the self destruct button will make her fun to use in casual games as a goof, so that should be fine for now.

[PJetski]

I really hope all the new models are compatible with the stormcast upgrade sprues...

[BURF1]

I wanna know what the mounted characters do more than anything else. How good those guys are will be huge on the simple basis of how it affects mixed order. Imagine a double pheonix list with a 2 spell 7 wound character with a 3+ save and a 12" move. Those lists are already brutal, adding a perfectly synergistic wizard would be crazy.

[Richelieu]

1 minute ago, BURF1 said:

I wanna know what the mounted characters do more than anything else. How good those guys are will be huge on the simple basis of how it affects mixed order. Imagine a double pheonix list with a 2 spell 7 wound character with a 3+ save and a 12" move. Those lists are already brutal, adding a perfectly synergistic wizard would be crazy.

I would be highly surprised if the phoenixes don't get a point increase.  The preponderance of mixed order lists that have only the phoenixes and a big monster in common indicate they are well underpriced.  I mean compare them to a celestant prime... Faster, more wounds, invulnerable save, a debuff, similar total melee dmg output but lacking only a deep strike which is unnecessary with a 16" move and a mortal shooting attack... For 100 points less. Bonkers.

[BURF1]

Just now, Richelieu said:

I would be highly surprised if the phoenixes don't get a point increase.  The preponderance of mixed order lists that have only the phoenixes and a big monster in common indicate they are well underpriced.  I mean compare them to a celestant prime... Faster, more wounds, invulnerable save, a debuff, similar total melee dmg output but lacking only a deep strike which is unnecessary with a 16" move and a mortal shooting attack... For 100 points less. Bonkers.

Agreed. As it stands, even allying one into a sacrosanct list seems like a no brainer considering how little support a pheonix needs when there's a decent number spells inside its radius.

[PJetski]

Phoenixes are not very good though. They can be hard to kill but they do virtually no damage and all the defensive support gets tied into 1-2 units so you're free to eliminate the rest of the army behind them.

I'm always shocked to find out people are struggling to deal with those mixed order lists.

[ledha]

I totally see the Starsoul Mace working like the Lunar Blade of the pallador prime, making D3 mortal wound on a 2+, without being a dice roll.

The new caster is very good, it would be stupid to make it less than 110/120 pts