Furious Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 The new Bonesplittaz warscrolls are awesome. They really managed to diversify a faction that really only had two non-character units, and made the Savage Orcs great on the battlefield. However, I find that this has kind of shifted the Greenskinz faction to being a clearly poorer choice. Generally, the new Savage Orcs hit better, more often and - the big thing - have two wounds a piece. Seems like a huge advantage over a rerollable 5+ save and a possible -1 rend, the only advantages orruks classic have over these new scrolls. The real kicker here is that the General handbook has valued them similarly as well. Anyone else notice and take issue with this? I prefer a medival orc - somewhere between the giant armour clad Iron Jaws and the naked and dangerous Bone Spittas. But it seems like Greenskinz, all around, are objectively the worse choice. Anyone have thoughts on this? I think I might just go converting some Savage Orcs to fit the visual theme of my army... (any suggestions on that, too?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhsellwood Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Two quick thoughts: Orruks gain a bigger benefit at 20+ models than the Savage's (+1 attack versus re-roll hits). Also, in a mixed Destruction force Savage's are not as strong with only a 6+ save and missing out on their Monster Hunters ability, so more of a decision to make in a mixed army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 They're definitely pretty bland now. I was surprised they got a start collecting in that first wave. I don't personally like the Greenskinz aesthetic all that much. I don't think they look right in AoS. That said, the new way they're doing battletomes can really breathe new life in lines that looked dusty. I think when they get around to goblins, the gitmob are going to suffer a bit of the same fate, being the bland "average" version. This is also true for some of the remaining humans, elves and dwarves. All non-specialized and non-individualized factions look like models from another era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I suspect that the Greenskin and Gitmob factions will get an upgraded theme when it's viable to produce new miniatures to drive sales. Gitmob Grots are likely to retain their emphasis on ranged attacks, and it'd be nice to see a plastic kit for the artillery options Greenskins are harder to pick out, but a refresh built around a solid horde option with rules where leaders help boost the units that they're with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_rex Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I think we'll probably get a new Greenskinz battletomb along side new kits for regular Boyz, a Boar Chariot (please pretty please), a Shaman and a Warboss, all to fit the newer aesthetic of the Boar Boyz. Gitmob will likely be a separate battletomb as will Moonclan and Spiderfang. I wouldn't expect any more greenskinz any time soon though as with the Iornjawz and the Bonesplittas we've had lots of stuff already where there's loads of other factions that have yet to receive any love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 All good points. The Greenskinz would be competitive against the new Savages if they matched them in wounds - they've always been two sides of the same coin: beefier units or killy-er units? Now, the Savages are both the beefier and the killy-er choice. Heck, right now even Greenskinz Boarboys are still a decent alternate choice to the Savage ones, and the Warboss command ability and banner buffs all orruks still, making them a worthy choice for any mixed-orruk army. I expect that if the Greenskinz do get an update that all their units will get the extra wound that the Savages now enjoy, but for now it's a bit of a bummer to have glaringly inferior troops, stalled during the arms creep that is Age of Sigmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 But if the Savages are both the beefier and killy-er choice doesn't that make them more elite, meaning fewer models? So Greenskinz can still stand out as a Waagh-some horde! Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the General's Handbook points for either faction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstimpson38 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I think they're great in mixed Destruction Orruk forces. The Bannerboss General is a huge force multiplier for Orruks of any kind, and Boarboys are really great. I wish normal Boyz cost a little less (re: 8ppm instead of 10ppm) because they're made to be ran in units of 20+ and next to a Boss. At the current cost that's 800 points in a 2k list with 80 of them (4 units of 20), and 1200 points with 4 units of 30 (imo the optimal unit size is 30 boyz to meet the 20+ req, while also having a 10 man buffer). That would drop to 960 for 4 units of 30 with the 8ppm change. I'm not sure how that stacks up against other large mob units. I'll still be using them because I run what I like thematically, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited see what GW does with them in their BT. I just hope they don't remove the Boss's "All Orruks" command ability in favor of a "Greenskinz Only" command ability. That's something I don't like about these new battletomes and a major reason I'm not a fan of Warchanters (outside of an Ardfist), all the new Bonesplitterz warscrolls, and the Ironjawz Megaboss. But that's a rant for another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poddy Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 How do you find normal boyz up against high armoured units like stormcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I agree, currently the banner is quite the boon as you can mix forces with no worries. I plan on sitting mine with ardboyz or morboyz. Personally I would like to see them getting an update to be competitive, and an faq on destruction in general. Making them lots of tiny factions sucks - order has entire army ranges per faction. Mixed destruction should be just as strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Ork have recently received two updates, can ogres steal some AoS limelight before we get on with the remaining two (gobbos and orks) please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Emicus said: Ork have recently received two updates, can ogres steal some AoS limelight before we get on with the remaining two (gobbos and orks) please? Next tome coming is the Beastclaw raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I think that a lot of the 'generic' factions from the old world suffer this kind of issue. Greenskinz and Gitmob just moreso because they're the faceless no-name regular Orruks and Grots that just litter the world as generic baddies. Personally I have a more pessimistic view on the future of Greenskinz and Gitmob. I don't think they're going to land any real mentions in the fluff other than potentially being generic punching bags (A tribe of Orruks were wiped out, etc). They don't really have what it takes to get an interesting theme going for them. I mean, regular Orruks armed in leathers and chainmail? What interesting spin are you going to put on them? AoS doesn't seem to have much of a place for factions which you can't give some kind of interesting back story. I have tossed up taking my half painted Orcs and <some> Goblins army from 8th ed and bring it into AoS. But every time I think about it, I just think the idea of regular old Orcs and Goblins won't be made more interesting in the future with new models/new ideas and the like. I guess they'll only come into play if needed for Battleline units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstimpson38 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I almost see Greenskinz as just being Ironjawz "in training". Unless they do something drastic like mix them with Gitmobs and focus on siege/terrain destruction/mobs I'm not sure how they'll make them stand out. Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 On 18/07/2016 at 6:23 PM, Soulsmith said: Next tome coming is the Beastclaw raiders. you got some hard and fast details for me to bite into there mate? I know we speculate but I'll mercenary a whole army for ya' for a whisper.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 you got some hard and fast details for me to bite into there mate? I know we speculate but I'll mercenary a whole army for ya' for a whisper.. I'm afraid not. The rumour came the same time as the bonesplitterz so it's hopefully solid, but it depends whether they hold it off til after the big war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 @Emicus@Soulsmith It's (as good as) confirmed on the back of the next WD. I don't think we'll be seeing any new models though. As per Flesh-eaters, Bonesplitterz and the like, just repacks and updated fluff etc in the Battletome to fit them within the AoS mythos. Thankfully as a newer Battletome we can expect to see traits, artefacts and spells (if they have a caster?). As for Greenskinz and Gitmob, I can't see them getting revisited in AoS personally. As touched on above, there are too generic and not thematic enough for the direction in which AoS seems to be going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I wonder what they could do with Greenskins to make them interesting. I mean Savage Orks has a bit of a spin with running naked, drowning the enemy in bodies, hauling down monsters and utilising a lot of ghur magic/gorkamorka waagh magic. Ironjaws are 'the elite' orks What does that leave greenskins, and also the poor gobbos? Having two more horde aspects of the 'same' army as savage seems pretty redundant, and going elite would step on Ironjaws territory. Is there a good place in the midle? Perhaps with more 'ork tables' where good/bad things happen because of their unruliness, similar to what has been done before? As for gobbos, they're about as nuthouse as skaven so cranking on more warmachinery wouldn't be totally amiss, and that's the one aspect that's missing from savage and ironjaws too. Then you combine them all and... b00m! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 I don't think common gobs are in the same position as Greenskinz - they've got the really good artillery, and the nasty skulks are pretty interesting. They're the most rounded-out faction in destruction: fast units, shooty units, mortal wounds, magic, decent scaling battleline. They only thing they're missing is tanky stuff. Honestly, I don't know what could be done with Greenskinz aesthetically to make them stand out, or not be bland. I make mine into punk rock hooligans - they already look enough like that anyways - but they probably need to be more than just a midway point between Savage and Ironjaws. They work really well as a horde army still, and are moreso than the Savage right now anyways. They probably would be best used as filler within destruction - a chariot here, or cavalry there, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I was playing total war today when I realised the grots may well see a shift if GW decide to focus them into the forest goblins instead. They already have two really good sculpts. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstimpson38 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 They probably would be best used as filler within destruction - a chariot here, or cavalry there, etc. That could be the niche their sub-faction battletome focuses on. Where Ironjawz are tanky, and Bonesplitterz are large numbers, Greenskins could focus on their speed. All characters have mounts, and boarboys and chariots are there. I think there's enough to work with if that's the route they choose to go down. Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 5 hours ago, mrstimpson38 said: All characters have mounts, and boarboys and chariots are there. I think there's enough to work with if that's the route they choose to go down. You can almost go that route with Bonesplitterz, minus the Chariots. Certainly be interesting to see what happens in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstimpson38 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 You can almost go that route with Bonesplitterz, minus the Chariots. Certainly be interesting to see what happens in the future. Agreed. Ironjawz too, with Ironfist/Gorefist/Destruction allegiance ability. Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I was reading back through this thread...I'd really like to see a Spiderfang focused Start Collecting box. The Greenskinz one is pretty weak, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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