Dan.Ford Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 All Battalions points need revisiting and points changes need to be made where necessary. Any battalion at 200+ points must be game breaking to justify such points. That 100 points increase on all the majority of Battalions was not ideal . This stopped a lot of players looking at other builds for competitive games or some club games. Some high pointed Battalions were not used at 80 to 140 points before the increase last year, they certainly have not increase the appeal to use from the updated points. The majority of the new Armies books battalions appear to be of low or reasonable cost. I am sure there are some players who could look at their Alliances and post some over costed Battalions. Bloodthurder Stampede 180 Bloodbound Warband 220 Bloodbound Warhorde 220 Brass Stampede 180 Skulltake 200 Ruinbringer Warband 180 Blood Host of Khorne 220 From Ironjawz : Brawl 200 and Gorefist 220 points . Some Beastclaw Raiders Battalion in the 200++ are they Game breaking to be that high? Death: Deadwatch 210 points ,really . Is Ghoul Patrol worth 150 now? Even Sylvaneth Battalions some appear to be on the high side. If a new book is coming ….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said: All Battalions points need revisiting and points changes need to be made where necessary. Any battalion at 200+ points must be game breaking to justify such points. That 100 points increase on all the majority of Battalions was not ideal . This stopped a lot of players looking at other builds for competitive games or some club games. Some high pointed Battalions were not used at 80 to 140 points before the increase last year, they certainly have not increase the appeal to use from the updated points. The majority of the new Armies books battalions appear to be of low or reasonable cost. I am sure there are some players who could look at their Alliances and post some over costed Battalions. Bloodthurder Stampede 180 Bloodbound Warband 220 Bloodbound Warhorde 220 Brass Stampede 180 Skulltake 200 Ruinbringer Warband 180 Blood Host of Khorne 220 From Ironjawz : Brawl 200 and Gorefist 220 points . Some Beastclaw Raiders Battalion in the 200++ are they Game breaking to be that high? Death: Deadwatch 210 points ,really . Is Ghoul Patrol worth 150 now? Even Sylvaneth Battalions some appear to be on the high side. If a new book is coming ….. It will be. GHB18. Literally the point of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Battalions have some good uses which are maybe hard to see on the first look. .) you have less Drops .) get additional artefacts .) get various bonuses where it is to decide individually if the Points are better invested elsewhere Overall GW made a great move with higher Battalion costs in my oppinion and it is very likely that they will stay on that course. I do not see the reason for your thread and also not the question or discussion-starter in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 If battalions did not give you extra artifacts and did not influence the 1st turn via cutting down drops, then they could go down in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 For me the one issue I had was the seemingly arbitrary way the battalions increased which in cases made no sense. The example I'll give is that because The Goretide required a sub-battalion, you were hit with two +100 point increases for very little benefit. In essence you paid battalion tax twice for the one-drop +1 artefact bonus. The end result is that you're unlikely to see that battalion being run if you're playing a points based game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: For me the one issue I had was the seemingly arbitrary way the battalions increased which in cases made no sense. I think they tried a quick fix which they didn't get quite right. I suspect in the next Generals Handbook, the points will be better although I suspect we will see some of the available armies disappearing for matched play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Gaz Taylor said: I think they tried a quick fix which they didn't get quite right. I suspect in the next Generals Handbook, the points will be better although I suspect we will see some of the available armies disappearing for matched play. Going with what we've seen so far, I think you're completely right. I've actually been really impressed with the battalion points in Legions of Nagash - not sure what DoK looks like by comparison but would imagine it's more what we'd expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, RuneBrush said: Going with what we've seen so far, I think you're completely right. I've actually been really impressed with the battalion points in Legions of Nagash - not sure what DoK looks like by comparison but would imagine it's more what we'd expect DoK took a path that I think will be carried over to future tomes. There are only a few battalions and they are not powerful by previous battalion standards, nor do that require large unit or point investments (the most expensive is 120). As a result it is very difficult to bring the number of drops in a DoK army below 5, although it can be done with some sacrifices. To make up for this, DoK have what are called Temples. A player can say their army below to one of 4 temples and much in the way of KO skyports, the army game some bonus rules. In this way, GW has maintained the flavor and power of battalions while divorcing it from low drops and additional artifacts. I am quite happy with the implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kessler Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said: ...although I suspect we will see some of the available armies disappearing for matched play. Really? Which ones you mean? Only compendium or some of those that didn't get allegiance abilities in GHB2017? I'm worried about my ogors and greenskins . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Kessler said: Really? Which ones you mean? Only compendium or some of those that didn't get allegiance abilities in GHB2017? I'm worried about my ogors and greenskins . I think they will be okay but suspect some models will just move out of matched play such as Firebellies. They will still have rules and old points but I think they will move more towards trimming some of the ranges or bundling them into different groups. So guessing you can still play with them but if at an event it would be a no. Between you and friends it would be fine. This is a guess though and no evidence behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 In my personal dreamworld I look forward to battalions being phased out entirely. There's no need for them when, as mentioned above, you have other mechanisms such as a whole menu of different allegiance abilities to add flavour and tactical options to your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I agree with nearly everyone here. Lowering the power of battalion and their point cost is a good idea and is likely what we will see. Some battalion had to cost more (hammerstrike, for example), but other (like slaughterborn) were complete overkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebat Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Jamie the Jasper said: In my personal dreamworld I look forward to battalions being phased out entirely. There's no need for them when, as mentioned above, you have other mechanisms such as a whole menu of different allegiance abilities to add flavour and tactical options to your army. I really like battalions but the Tzeentch book in my mind shows the good and bad side. The Arcanite side gives some cool groupings of units that you can theme an army around and provide some nice structure to building an army as they're all built around 3 units so while they can get big if you max out the unit sizes there is a definite limit. The Daemon side on the other hand are all massive and can all encompass your entire army which as you say makes them a bit pointless and the same effect could be achieved by other means. I'd be happy seeing more like the arcanite side that are like small warbands making up a bigger army and losing the mega battalions unless they're the ones that are made up of the smaller battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 hours ago, firebat said: I really like battalions but the Tzeentch book in my mind shows the good and bad side. The Arcanite side gives some cool groupings of units that you can theme an army around and provide some nice structure to building an army as they're all built around 3 units so while they can get big if you max out the unit sizes there is a definite limit. The Daemon side on the other hand are all massive and can all encompass your entire army which as you say makes them a bit pointless and the same effect could be achieved by other means. I'd be happy seeing more like the arcanite side that are like small warbands making up a bigger army and losing the mega battalions unless they're the ones that are made up of the smaller battalions. That sounds pretty reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragequit Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Maybe it is my lack of gaming experience but the points of Legion of Nagash and Daughters of Khaine seem to be significant cheaper then compared to all existing Battalions Maggotkin missed out on the reduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOMUS Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 22 March 2018 at 2:46 PM, Kaleun said: Overall GW made a great move with higher Battalion costs in my oppinion and it is very likely that they will stay on that course. I do not see the reason for your thread and also not the question or discussion-starter in it. I think although it was a good move to increase the battalion costs as many others have stated it was a poor move to use an arbitrary amount for all. I think Dan is wanting a bit more nuanced approach to the points because as it stands a few battalions are auto include and most are discarded. In addition to the the battalions he mentions above, I think gore pilgrims could probably go up in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmanphill Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I want to use battalions to drive a narrative theme in my army. I hope this is an approach they more seriously consider in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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