Hinterland or AoS Skirmish?

[someone2040]

9 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

the reasons might be balancing issues. Ase being said, from my experience the Knight Venator is way overpowered in a skirmish game. So are several other units.

@Nevvermore

I think GW stopped Hinterlands by law-force. GW doesnt accept competition around their products. You see the same happening with fan-supported Necromunda and Blood Bowl.

Both of those are completely wrong.

As much as you go on about the Venator... you know that model is in Skirmish as well right? It has nothing to do with balance. The reasoning GW gave for not supporting a ton of other models is they only wanted to support plastic kits you could buy off the shelf in store. A bit of a cop out, considering many models you can't buy in store anyway, but that was the reasoning they gave for not supporting the finecast/metal models.

 

As for the latter. The creator decided to take it down after Skirmish product came out.  There is nothing illegal about creating your own rules to go alongside Age of Sigmar and publishing them on the internet. It's not like you are publishing GW's own rules that are locked behind payment.

I don't remember the exact quote or anything, but I believe it's because he originally wanted to re-release Hinterlands as an add-on to Skirmish but later decided not to for some reason. The creator also now works for Games Workshop.

[Kaleun]

yeah. Hinterlands grew into Skrimish then. It is pretty old now, but nevertheless Hinterlands was not accepted besindes Skirmish. That the creator is now part of the company is a good thing! It was a great rulesset.

[Redmanphill]

I’ve played through both of these and I’ve found them lacking. I’d really love to see GW invest some effort into this system and make something more akin to Mordheim with it.

[Sharkbelly]

There's some fan-made Mordheim stuff already too.

[Chikout]

The guy who wrote Hinterlands was Sam (Bottle) Person. He works for GW now as a rules writer. That may be he took the rules down. I really hope GW let him go to town on an updated and deepened version of skirmish, like they seem to be doing for kill team. 

[DinoTitanedition]

Honestly....I think Skirmish is just fine as it is right now. Yeah, you cannot take evrything, but that is what actually makes it pretty good. There is less overpowered units. I even think some stuff could be replaced with less strong warscrolls.  The limitation also creates a couple of quite nice narratives.

[Swooper]

3 hours ago, DinoTitanedition said:

Honestly....I think Skirmish is just fine as it is right now. Yeah, you cannot take evrything, but that is what actually makes it pretty good. There is less overpowered units. I even think some stuff could be replaced with less strong warscrolls.  The limitation also creates a couple of quite nice narratives.

That might be true, if the limitation were base on which units make sense in Skirmish as opposed to just being based on which models are available in plastic.

[DinoTitanedition]

40 minutes ago, Swooper said:

That might be true, if the limitation were base on which units make sense in Skirmish as opposed to just being based on which models are available in plastic.

Where is that information from @Swooper? Or is it just an assumption?

[Swooper]

2 minutes ago, DinoTitanedition said:

Where is that information from @Swooper? Or is it just an assumption?

Saw someone point it out somewhere (maybe on the Full Points List thread?), but it fits. Look at the Skirmish roster, as far as I know there's not a single non-plastic model on it. It's a bit fiddly around e.g. Skaven because some models were available in plastic in Spire of Dawn (packmaster, warlock engineer etc) and plague priests can be built in plastic from the Plague Furnace/Screaming Bell kit, but as far as I can tell all resin-exclusive models are missing from the list.

Examples of missing units:

• Beastlords
• Tuskgor chariots
• Masque of Slaanesh
• Curseling

Similar units are available to other factions, and everything points to resin being the cause. Of course, some other stuff is missing too, but that's mostly behemoths and big bulky heroes like the Ogroid Thaumaturge. So yeah, assumption I guess, but plenty of evidence to support it. Feel free to disprove it, if you can!

 

[DinoTitanedition]

9 hours ago, Swooper said:

Saw someone point it out somewhere (maybe on the Full Points List thread?), but it fits. Look at the Skirmish roster, as far as I know there's not a single non-plastic model on it. It's a bit fiddly around e.g. Skaven because some models were available in plastic in Spire of Dawn (packmaster, warlock engineer etc) and plague priests can be built in plastic from the Plague Furnace/Screaming Bell kit, but as far as I can tell all resin-exclusive models are missing from the list.

Examples of missing units:

• Beastlords
• Tuskgor chariots
• Masque of Slaanesh
• Curseling

Similar units are available to other factions, and everything points to resin being the cause. Of course, some other stuff is missing too, but that's mostly behemoths and big bulky heroes like the Ogroid Thaumaturge. So yeah, assumption I guess, but plenty of evidence to support it. Feel free to disprove it, if you can!

 

As far as I`ve seen, only the Aspiring Deathbringer and the Exalted Deathbringer with Bloodbite Axe isn`t available from plastic. I still find this hardly an argument, as some of the ranges, like Fyreslayers or Ironjawz (sort of all the "original" AoS factions) don`even have minis made of other material. Plus, we shouldn`t forget, that GW is actually thriving to manufacture it`s miniatures purely in plastic.

 

What I think can be said is, that some of the units don`t seem to fit leaderwise for a warband from a fluffside of perspective. I`ve seen a video on YouTube where it was stated, that some selections seem odd at that point. Other than that I feel it`s right not to have everything there for a selection.

[flemingmma]

11 minutes ago, DinoTitanedition said:

As far as I`ve seen, only the Aspiring Deathbringer and the Exalted Deathbringer with Bloodbite Axe isn`t available from plastic. I still find this hardly an argument, as some of the ranges, like Fyreslayers or Ironjawz (sort of all the "original" AoS factions) don`even have minis made of other material. Plus, we shouldn`t forget, that GW is actually thriving to manufacture it`s miniatures purely in plastic.

 

What I think can be said is, that some of the units don`t seem to fit leaderwise for a warband from a fluffside of perspective. I`ve seen a video on YouTube where it was stated, that some selections seem odd at that point. Other than that I feel it`s right not to have everything there for a selection.

The exalted deathbringer with bloodbite axe is on the same warscroll as the new plastic one so you can take him along

[someone2040]

On 4/8/2018 at 10:02 AM, DinoTitanedition said:

Where is that information from @Swooper? Or is it just an assumption?

It's been mentioned by GW before as well. They wanted to do only plastic miniatures because it meant 'people could walk into store and pick it up straight off the shelf' so they could jump right into Skirmish - which of course is rubbish since a lot of plastic stuff won't be on the shelves anyway and would require purchase through the web terminal.

But basically, it's very easy to tell how things got a renown value. They had to:

A) Be plastic

B) Translate to less than 30 renown (Based on whatever interim version of the points they had at the time. Most are based off their GHB2017 points).

The only weird omisssion to this is the Orruk Warboss who is plastic yet somehow not in the book.

 

Not a single resin or metal model was given official renown, no matter how suitable they would be for Skirmish. I mean, there's no way you can argue that Witch Hunters or Gutter Runners and the like wouldn't fit into Skirmish. If they had picked and chose what units were suitable for Skirmish, then at least some of the resin/metal range would've been included.

[Binabik15]

I'm starting this with my brother soon. I think we'll do a mix if both rulesets.

 

But a quick question: is the gryph-hound you can place ibcluded in the Lord-Veritant's skirmish points or not? Right now I'm calculating with the gryph-hound bought on top.

[someone2040]

No, you need to purchase the Gryph Hound as an extra just like in Matched Play.

[EMMachine]

On 10.4.2018 at 2:57 AM, someone2040 said:

It's been mentioned by GW before as well. They wanted to do only plastic miniatures because it meant 'people could walk into store and pick it up straight off the shelf' so they could jump right into Skirmish - which of course is rubbish since a lot of plastic stuff won't be on the shelves anyway and would require purchase through the web terminal.

But basically, it's very easy to tell how things got a renown value. They had to:

A) Be plastic

B) Translate to less than 30 renown (Based on whatever interim version of the points they had at the time. Most are based off their GHB2017 points).

The only weird omisssion to this is the Orruk Warboss who is plastic yet somehow not in the book.

It's also sad, that GW didn't made an warscroll (besides compendium) for a swifthawk Agents Seawarden. I mean, you can build him if you buy the Skycutter and build the skycutter instead of the Skywarden (herhaps because there wasn't a warscroll for Spireguard when Grand Alliance Order came out). So in skirmish we now have the problem, that they have no hero that really belongs to them (High Warden and Sky Warden are to expensive. The only models that could be used is perhaps a Dragon Noble (after he can have a bow and a Enchanted Polearm (as a Spear) or Polearm + Shield). But it's not the same after his abilites only buff Order Draconis Models

[someone2040]

4 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

It's also sad, that GW didn't made an warscroll (besides compendium) for a swifthawk Agents Seawarden. I mean, you can build him if you buy the Skycutter and build the skycutter instead of the Skywarden (herhaps because there wasn't a warscroll for Spireguard when Grand Alliance Order came out). So in skirmish we now have the problem, that they have no hero that really belongs to them (High Warden and Sky Warden are to expensive. The only models that could be used is perhaps a Dragon Noble (after he can have a bow and a Enchanted Polearm (as a Spear) or Polearm + Shield). But it's not the same after his abilites only buff Order Draconis Models

I think you're spot on on why the Sky Warden is in the compendium.

When Games Workshop initially published the Swifthawk Agents in the Grand Alliance : Order book, the Seaguard, Reavers and High Warden were not part of the faction because Island of Blood/Spire of Dawn was not being produced at that time.

Hence I guess, they didn't want the foot version (Sea Warden) in the Swifthawk Agents faction because it didn't fit in.

Later on they reintroduced those models, but I guess for whatever reason didn't want to introduce another model that wasn't in the Grand Alliance Order book.

 

It's a very sad and strange situation for the poor Sea Warden. But you know, my opinion on the Swifthawk Agents as a whole is it's a mess of a faction that is confused in what it's identity is.

[EMMachine]

39 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

I think you're spot on on why the Sky Warden is in the compendium.

Seawarden not Skywarden. The Skywarden is the guy on a Skycutter and is part of the Grand Alliance Book.

 

39 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

It's a very sad and strange situation for the poor Sea Warden. But you know, my opinion on the Swifthawk Agents as a whole is it's a mess of a faction that is confused in what it's identity is.

Yeah I know. This Faction has 3 Themes.

Seaguard Theme (Skywarden, Spireguard, Skycutters) like Scourge Privateers. A Seawarden would simply fit because of the Spireguard.

Cavalry Theme (Highwarden, Reavers and Chariots)

And the Shadow Warriors, which would better fit with the Shadowblades.

 

I really hope GW would do something about this Faction, but don't think, this could really happen. So we have problems with some of those factions. In regular AoS as well as Skirmish. Only time will tell us, so we are stuck with the abomination, called Dragon Noble, who has some equipment options that don't fit with order Draconis ("Phoenixbanner", the furcoat whats more Lion Ranger).

[DynamicCalories]

This seems like the most likely place to ask this - I didn't want to start a new thread.

I am going to an event in three weeks time where a bunch of new players are meeting up to play 40k, AoS, Skirmish, Shadespire at WHW

One of the 40k players has come up with a cool escalation style mini-narrative for our games. I want to do something similar for Skirmish, as there are a few people there that only have Skirmish level armies/Shadespire and will want to play.

Does anyone have any links to some good resources for building a fun, short campaign that escalates ever so slightly from, say, 50 renown to 75/100? I want to couch it in the Malign Portents time frame as we have a lot of Death/Order factions.

Specifically if anyone has a battleplan where a strong hero/monster is present as a rogue element, that would be cool too, as I want a Knight of Shrouds to be a centrepiece for at least one battle.

Cheers in advance!

[someone2040]

11 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

This seems like the most likely place to ask this - I didn't want to start a new thread.

I am going to an event in three weeks time where a bunch of new players are meeting up to play 40k, AoS, Skirmish, Shadespire at WHW

One of the 40k players has come up with a cool escalation style mini-narrative for our games. I want to do something similar for Skirmish, as there are a few people there that only have Skirmish level armies/Shadespire and will want to play.

Does anyone have any links to some good resources for building a fun, short campaign that escalates ever so slightly from, say, 50 renown to 75/100? I want to couch it in the Malign Portents time frame as we have a lot of Death/Order factions.

Specifically if anyone has a battleplan where a strong hero/monster is present as a rogue element, that would be cool too, as I want a Knight of Shrouds to be a centrepiece for at least one battle.

Cheers in advance!

So to be honest, any of the battleplans for Skirmish will likely deal well in the 50 to 100 renown range. Perhaps if you want to tie it into Malign Portents, you can look at the Skirmish section from the Malign Portents book (Which from what I recall, has alternative artefacts/traits/rewards and a few extra battleplans).

Otherwise, not sure if there's been too much material released specifically for Skirmish in terms of battleplans and the like. You could be on your own if you want to develop your own specific battleplans, and in that case I'd suggest making sure you at least run through your own battleplans once or twice with other opponents just to make sure they play the way you foresee. Players will always play your scenarios in unexpected ways, so it's good to get a bit of feedback ahead of time.

[hellalugosi]

On 4/15/2018 at 5:42 AM, DynamicCalories said:

This seems like the most likely place to ask this - I didn't want to start a new thread.

I am going to an event in three weeks time where a bunch of new players are meeting up to play 40k, AoS, Skirmish, Shadespire at WHW

One of the 40k players has come up with a cool escalation style mini-narrative for our games. I want to do something similar for Skirmish, as there are a few people there that only have Skirmish level armies/Shadespire and will want to play.

Does anyone have any links to some good resources for building a fun, short campaign that escalates ever so slightly from, say, 50 renown to 75/100? I want to couch it in the Malign Portents time frame as we have a lot of Death/Order factions.

Specifically if anyone has a battleplan where a strong hero/monster is present as a rogue element, that would be cool too, as I want a Knight of Shrouds to be a centrepiece for at least one battle.

Cheers in advance!

i would suggest trying out the supplement ive made called heroic play. its very hard focused on delivering short campaign narratives such as youve stated. as for battleplans with a character rogue element, i would absolutely reccomend the beast lair battleplan from path to glory as the basis for a scenario.

heroic play is linked in my signature, hope it helps!