Barkanaut Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, BlackthornMagus said: So the *absolute* minimum cost for a Phalanx is 4020 points. And the benefit is suddenly turning it to High Tide for a turn whenever it isn't. Is this worth it in competitive? Competitive matches are usually 2k so no lol. Its likely for larger scale casual games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 21/04/2018 at 1:52 PM, DantePQ said: Sure but my point wasn't about Morathi or Aspect of the Sea. I like Aspect of the Storm better then 6 Morssar as he can retreat and charge. My point was that even 6 Morssar aren't reliablr hammer unit, sure they can take out some lesser units/wounded models but they are usually one use only as they will die easily to melee and magic and then they aren't sure to take down any important target. They just suffer a lot from having only 2 attacks with rend and extra damage. Have you done the maths on Morsarr? They're pretty great in damage output actually, on the charge of course, and still good when not on the charge. Obviously they are less efficient against things that dont need the rend than against things with armour, but they are *only 160 points*. They have the equivalent of 4 3+ 3+ 1 damage attacks too. That's a lot of damage output right there. They move 14 inches, reroll charges, reroll battleshock, deal 5/6 of a mortal per model once per game too. They do *a lot of things* that makes them worthwhile for a very reasonable price. They're a great unit. I dont know what you qualify a "hammer unit" as but they're on par with most other 160pt 3 model units in terms of damage output, but they have the speed and utility to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ruin Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 15 hours ago, Luke1705 said: Polearm is just better always. What do you mean allegiance abilities? that the polearm likes it when the king charges. Due to the high movement of the king, plus Turn 2 run and charge (allegiance ability), and turn 4 retreat and charge(allegiance ability), you should be able to avoid being charged and get charges off. Thats all i meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ruin Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Cookiez said: My list is somewhere up, but, to summarize, i brought a King, Aspect of the Sea (range 12" spells are harsh, used them only once, for the wholle battle I was casting shield and bolt), 6 Morrsarr, 3 + 6 Ishlaen, 30 Thralls, Tidecaster and a Knight Venator in Fuethan enclave. And I got another game, with KO clown car, scheduled on thursday... I like your list. Do you think a leviadon or shark would have helped in anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 @ianob I've done math and units of 3 don't cut it, as they lose a lot of output when 1 is gone, you got to take 6 and if so I'd rather take 30 Thralls (math wise they are just much, much better then Morssar) Their damage output when not on charge is medicore, unlike Thralls they can't soak up almost any damage without losing damage output, they are more mobile that's all. I'm not saying that they are bad, they are average. I've been playing with similar unit 20 Lifetakers, even tough they have similar damage output, mobility etc and they got stuck in cobat very often and after charge did not generate enough damage. Morssar are terrbile when charged and lose 1-2 to magic/melee (and it's not that hard to kill 1-2) and they're toasted, lose 5-10 Thralls and I did not matter much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiez Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 @Knight of Ruin To be honest - no. I'd prefer Ishlaen Guard any time before the shark. The turtle is a different story. I missed the cover in 2 round especially (third was a breeze), but I cannot afford 380 point loss to do what? bite a unit here and there and give cover. Definitely not instead of Eidolon or King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ruin Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Im planning a similar list but without the venator and thralls. Im considering reavers for home objectives, but otherwise no namarti. What do you think about a generic king vs volt? What about fuethan? Did you find flood tide on turn 4 a drawback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiez Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Knight of Ruin said: Im planning a similar list but without the venator and thralls. Im considering reavers for home objectives, but otherwise no namarti. What do you think about a generic king vs volt? What about fuethan? Did you find flood tide on turn 4 a drawback? Hard to say, the Armour of the Cythai (which alone makes Putrid Blightkings useless for example) or the pearl are all amazing artifacts and the polearm is a better weapon imho. The rest, of course, favour the Volturnos. Spell defense is also huge. I put the regular one on the list because of the point limit right now, but i belive Volturnos has it's place Yeah, everything about Fuethan is great if you go Akhelian heavy list. I had one situation in which I wish I had the ebb tide to defend my objective and one, when the run + charge ensured the scorching of another objective. Hard to say, but I think for now that Ebb Tide on turn 4 is a little bit more useful. The funny thing about Fuethan. It actually makes switching the Tides with Tidecaster something to consider. Instead of starting with useless Ebb Tide turn 1, you get the Flood Tide, with which 1 turn charges are possible. So you charge. Even better, when you went second and won the initiative. Then you fight first in the 2 turn, so a turn faster - which is good. Of course it's not favourable against every army, but I see some cases where I'd benefit from this much better than from the normal Tide Table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Bob on War of Sigmar says the Akhelian Guard will be released on 19 May. I am not sure if that is preorder or actual release. Seems they are stretching the releases out quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 hours ago, DantePQ said: @ianob I've done math and units of 3 don't cut it, as they lose a lot of output when 1 is gone, you got to take 6 and if so I'd rather take 30 Thralls (math wise they are just much, much better then Morssar) Their damage output when not on charge is medicore, unlike Thralls they can't soak up almost any damage without losing damage output, they are more mobile that's all. I'm not saying that they are bad, they are average. I've been playing with similar unit 20 Lifetakers, even tough they have similar damage output, mobility etc and they got stuck in cobat very often and after charge did not generate enough damage. Morssar are terrbile when charged and lose 1-2 to magic/melee (and it's not that hard to kill 1-2) and they're toasted, lose 5-10 Thralls and I did not matter much. This is your problem; you're doing maths based on a unit of 30 models on 32mm bases that are much slower, dont reroll charges, cant get to rend 2, dont deal mortals, and dont fly. You're comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To1v1 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Anybody happy to give me any pointers on my idea for a 1000pt leading to 2000pt army, I've never played a game of aos before, and want to be semi competitive! I come from a 40k background, any help on what I'm doing wrong would be appreciated, Thanks! 1000 pt army Mor'Phann Leaders Lotann 100 Soul render 100 Battleline 30 Thralls 360 10 reavers 140 Other 3 Shield Eels 140 3 Spear Eels 160 2000pt army Leaders Lotann 100 Eidolon of the sea 440 Soulrender 100 Volturnos 280 30 Thralls 360 10 reavers 140 10 reavers 140 3 Shield Eels 140 3 Shield Eels 140 3 Spear eels 160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 My list Vulturnos Eidolon of the sea Tidecaster 30 Thralls 2x3 shield eals 9 spear eals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiriel Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 4/22/2018 at 8:10 AM, Circus of Paint said: Oh yeah didn’t catch that! Do you think originally it might of been 2-4 Thralls for the battalion before they bumped it up to 2-6? It doesn’t make sense to me for Mor’phann to have more Reavers since that is Briomnar’s enclave bonus. I would of thoaught they would of liked to make sure each battalion enclave bonus is different! Hopefully they meant Morphan could have up to 6 Soulreapers in the Namarti Corps. There's no reason I can see to take the Corps vs a second Reaper, in any enclave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Sorry if this has already been discussed (the thread is moving quickly!) But... can Volturnos be general in a Ionrach army? Given that he's not allowed a command trait, but in ionrach your general has to have to special trait? Or, is he allowed to be general, but without the trait (which would make Ionrach pointless)? Or is there some language that allows him to take this trait (don't have the book with me). Would be weird fluff wise if the High King wasn't allowed to lead his own enclave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 hour ago, ianob said: This is your problem; you're doing maths based on a unit of 30 models on 32mm bases that are much slower, dont reroll charges, cant get to rend 2, dont deal mortals, and dont fly. You're comparing apples and oranges. And you are doing math without taking loses and how they impact damage output into consideration. No its not apple and oranges as you want both units to fill similar role. @BillyOcean it should will like Morathi so you can use him as general in Ionarch enclave but can't use Ionarch extra command Trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiriel Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, BillyOcean said: Sorry if this has already been discussed (the thread is moving quickly!) But... can Volturnos be general in a Ionrach army? Given that he's not allowed a command trait, but in ionrach your general has to have to special trait? Or, is he allowed to be general, but without the trait (which would make Ionrach pointless)? Or is there some language that allows him to take this trait (don't have the book with me). Would be weird fluff wise if the High King wasn't allowed to lead his own enclave! You can take him, he just doesn't get the command trait. It's not pointless as Ionrach still is probably worth it for the magic buff alone in lots of builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, DantePQ said: No its not apple and oranges as you want both units to fill similar role. They both want to fill beater role, but they do it very differently (hammer vs. scalpel) and I think it just comes down to what you value more as a player. So everyone is right! Personally, I've given up on the idea of big blobs of infantry as a primary beater unit after watching them get stuck on layers of brimstones all game. I value the Morsarr's mobility to seek out key targets much higher than the raw offensive power of Thralls. But others will prefer the Thralls... meaning we will have lots of nice variance in builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Namiriel said: You can take him, he just doesn't get the command trait. It's not pointless as Ionrach still is probably worth it for the magic buff alone in lots of builds True, but I kind of see Ionrach as the go-to if you want to make the most of allies. The cast/unbind buff is nice, but I feel like not enough to rival what you get elsewhere. I can't imagine going Ionrach unless I'm taking allies, which means I also can't imagine going Ionrach with Volturnos as general. Which is fine, no problem game-wise, just strikes me as weird fluff-wise. Not a big deal tho, I just wanted to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiriel Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 So, in looking at what can be done for combos, how do people feel about Tidecaller Sharks? 2x2 sharks and a Tidecaller is 660 points, but you have a 92+% chance of one of the units getting a charge off on the first turn. Seems like it could be useful for dakka on support pieces or (probably) trading to to remove critical spellcasters vs Tzeentch or Death. Additionally, since they'd then be the closest models, that means everything else is immune to shooting until they die. A Tidecaller and 2x1 sharks is only 380 points, but unfortunately I think theyre weak enough that they may fail to wound via shooting, or to even kill off spellcasters assuming the likely scenario of only 1 shark making it in. I think like most people I'm disappointed they aren't a mobile fire platform with some melee, and directly compete with the much better spear eels, but seeing as they're the only unit to accompany a Tidecaller with additional charge bonuses, I'm trying to make what's written work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Namiriel said: but seeing as they're the only unit to accompany a Tidecaller with additional charge bonuses, I'm trying to make what's written work. Are you talking about the soulscryer rather than tidecaster? The character that allows deepstrike? Also, all of the eels can reroll charges if they have a musician, so I would still just take those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annarborhawk Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Entombet said: My list Vulturnos Eidolon of the sea Tidecaster 30 Thralls 2x3 shield eals 9 spear eals. That's what I came up with. EDIT: N/M I just went with 20 thralls and 18 eels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiriel Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Oh derp, just take eels then! 18 minutes ago, BillyOcean said: Also, all of the eels can reroll charges if they have a musician, so I would still just take those! Derp, just take either Eel then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus of Paint Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 56 minutes ago, Namiriel said: Hopefully they meant Morphan could have up to 6 Soulreapers in the Namarti Corps. There's no reason I can see to take the Corps vs a second Reaper, in any enclave. Each Soulrender could ressurect from one Namarti unit a turn. If you have more than one, there’s nothing to stop you (as far as I can see) from each Soulrender using his Lurelight on the same Namarti unit each turn! If so, that really should be FAQ’d! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiriel Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Circus of Paint said: Each Soulrender could ressurect from one Namarti unit a turn. If you have more than one, there’s nothing to stop you (as far as I can see) from each Soulrender using his Lurelight on the same Namarti unit each turn! If so, that really should be FAQ’d! Well, you can already do that with 2 Reapers and 1 Thrall unit. But I don't see why you'd pay 200 points for 3+x wounds from one reaper in the formation, when you could pay 200 points for 2d3+2x wounds for 2 reapers. Especially if you're planning on doing Thralls and Reaper spam, since then you're likely playing Morphan and why would you do 6+x wounds vs 2d3+6+2x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Hey guys, I'm a complete beginner to Age Of Sigmar, going with Idoneth as my first army. Just got the book and put together a rough 1000pt army list - I'm thinking: -Akhelian King -Tidecaster -10 Namarti Thralls -10 Namarti Reavers -3 Morsarr Guard -3 Ishlaen Guard -5 Khinerai Heartrenders My plan is for the Ishlaen to guard high value units such as the king against missile fire, so he and the Morsarr can charge in and cause havoc. Meanwhile the Namarti can take objectives or help out where needed. The Khinerai are there to swoop in and assassinate enemy heroes and support units. I included the Tidecaster mostly just on the assumption that all armies in this game should have a wizard if possible? And the Aspect Of The Sea seems too expensive to include in 1000pts. But not sure how vital that is. Thematically, in old Warhammer and 40k I always preferred having my own generic guys than using named special characters, which is why I've gone for an Akhelian King rather than Volturnos, but Mr V does seem flat better for not many more points. Should I just make room for him, or is a generic king ok? Haven't had a chance to properly read about all the command abilities, enclave abilities, etc yet so not sure about those. Seems like the Ionrach thing that grants allies Tides Of Death probably isn't worth it for one unit of Khinerai that'll probably be dead by then anyway? Open to any criticism or advice on this one, as I say I'm totally new and pretty clueless! My goal is just to put together a relatively flexible and simple force for now, while I learn the ropes, and more advanced tactics and tricks I can get to later, but I do want to make sure I haven't made some horrendous mistake with this list before I start ordering models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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