Maps of Age of Sigmar

[Still-young]

I’m not sure I agree that those America place names are any more consistent than the AoS ones. 

[EccentricCircle]

I think that all of the realms have potential, and I really hope that between the new edition and the AoS RPG they are really expanded into a fleshed out setting. I like both high and low fantasy for different reasons, but as a professional space geographer I'll always opt for maps which have a grounding it reality. I know enough about landscape evolution and environmental processes that things seem jarring when they are "wrong".

I know some people feel differently, and that's fair enough. However I feel that magically influenced landscapes feel more epic and awe inspiring when their surroundings are grounded in reality. If you have a floating city inside a mile wide hurricane then that is wondrous and exiting. However if the entire world is made up of that, then it quickly becomes more of the same.
I think that the same can be said for culture and history. If you know how societies evolve, and how real world history worked then you can deviate from it in an interesting and effective manner. This is something which Warhammer has always done very well. By all accounts the people who designed the original setting had a lot of history degrees between them and it shows in their work.
I feel that when it comes to maps, and the worlds and societies they describe, AoS and WFB have the opposite problems.
The map design in the Old World wasn't very creative. I love that setting to bits, but at face value it is basically just a mashup of Renaissance Earth and Middle-Earth. However, once you scratch the surface and delve deeper into the lore it really comes into its own. The designers riff on real world elements to conjure and amusing and complex setting which definitely stands the test of time. It feels real and lived-in, in a way which many other fantasy worlds don't.
Age of Sigmar has the opposite problem. At face value the setting is much more imaginative,if I were to liken it to a D&D setting it would be Planescape. The scope of the setting is immense, but the way the realms are shaped by the winds of magic means that they remain thematically consistent. It gives you narrative space, while still giving you a solid theme to work with. However it feels like it is still early days with regards fleshing out the setting. At the moment the realms feel quite sparse and generic, because only a few places in each have really been explored in any detail.
I'm sure that greater depth will come, after all the game has been around for four years rather than forty.
I agree that some of the names don't do age of sigmar any favours. By trying to avoid generic terms they have come up with some really odd nomenclature, and I know i'm not alone in feeling that that makes it harder to relate to the setting, and ironically makes it feel more bland and generic. I wish they had been a little more inventive in renaming everything, and done so with a little more finesse.

For example, as a long time fan of the Lizardmen I kind of dislike the name "Seraphon". It doesn't really seem to fit with any of their established lore and names, doesn't really represent what they are etc. I wish they had named the faction Slann, since that race is in charge, directs the other forces, and has a long tradition as a part of the various warhammer settings. I think the same principle could have been applied to the Orcs and Goblins. I reckon they could have done something with the concept of the Waaagh! which would have been more inventive than Orruk.
I think that the same thing could be applied to geographical names, but will reserve judgement until i've read the new rulebook, and examined the new maps in detail. The AoS setting has near limitless potential, and I'm sure that in time places like Hammerhall which are getting a lot of attention will be as rich as Mordheim and Altdorf.

[Baron Klatz]

I find the names fine, personally.  Really add to the idea of a unique setting of it's own and when you get into a fluff conversation with them it's quite fun as you feel you're both on the level.

Seraphon works because it'd playing off of the angelic Seraph term as they are a anti-chaos force that comes from the heavens, having variants made of daemon destroying starlight is quite the boon as well. Orruks, Grots and Ogors is really simplistic and gives the indication that the Greenskins named themselves from what they could recall, which had forced approval on scholars as Gorkamorka was a respected part of the pantheon at the time.

 

Back to the topic. Absolutely love all the maps but it's the first realm of life map that showed floating fortresses, heavenly waterfalls and a golden palace surrounded by a glade that made me know that AoS was perfect for me and my love of all things medieval fantasy. It was the very fantastical and wartorn nature of Warhammer that drew me in and now having an official setting that completely relishes in that along with constantly pushing the envelope is a dream come true!

[Cèsar de Quart]

15 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

I think that all of the realms have potential, and I really hope that between the new edition and the AoS RPG they are really expanded into a fleshed out setting. I like both high and low fantasy for different reasons, but as a professional space geographer I'll always opt for maps which have a grounding it reality. I know enough about landscape evolution and environmental processes that things seem jarring when they are "wrong".

I know some people feel differently, and that's fair enough. However I feel that magically influenced landscapes feel more epic and awe inspiring when their surroundings are grounded in reality. If you have a floating city inside a mile wide hurricane then that is wondrous and exiting. However if the entire world is made up of that, then it quickly becomes more of the same.
I think that the same can be said for culture and history. If you know how societies evolve, and how real world history worked then you can deviate from it in an interesting and effective manner. This is something which Warhammer has always done very well. By all accounts the people who designed the original setting had a lot of history degrees between them and it shows in their work.
I feel that when it comes to maps, and the worlds and societies they describe, AoS and WFB have the opposite problems.
The map design in the Old World wasn't very creative. I love that setting to bits, but at face value it is basically just a mashup of Renaissance Earth and Middle-Earth. However, once you scratch the surface and delve deeper into the lore it really comes into its own. The designers riff on real world elements to conjure and amusing and complex setting which definitely stands the test of time. It feels real and lived-in, in a way which many other fantasy worlds don't.
Age of Sigmar has the opposite problem. At face value the setting is much more imaginative,if I were to liken it to a D&D setting it would be Planescape. The scope of the setting is immense, but the way the realms are shaped by the winds of magic means that they remain thematically consistent. It gives you narrative space, while still giving you a solid theme to work with. However it feels like it is still early days with regards fleshing out the setting. At the moment the realms feel quite sparse and generic, because only a few places in each have really been explored in any detail.
I'm sure that greater depth will come, after all the game has been around for four years rather than forty.
I agree that some of the names don't do age of sigmar any favours. By trying to avoid generic terms they have come up with some really odd nomenclature, and I know i'm not alone in feeling that that makes it harder to relate to the setting, and ironically makes it feel more bland and generic. I wish they had been a little more inventive in renaming everything, and done so with a little more finesse.

For example, as a long time fan of the Lizardmen I kind of dislike the name "Seraphon". It doesn't really seem to fit with any of their established lore and names, doesn't really represent what they are etc. I wish they had named the faction Slann, since that race is in charge, directs the other forces, and has a long tradition as a part of the various warhammer settings. I think the same principle could have been applied to the Orcs and Goblins. I reckon they could have done something with the concept of the Waaagh! which would have been more inventive than Orruk.
I think that the same thing could be applied to geographical names, but will reserve judgement until i've read the new rulebook, and examined the new maps in detail. The AoS setting has near limitless potential, and I'm sure that in time places like Hammerhall which are getting a lot of attention will be as rich as Mordheim and Altdorf.

I couldn't agree more.

In fact, I imagined the Mortal Realms as Earth-like places that become strange and more magically-influenced as one travels more in the realm's edge direction. Having the center of the realm as also an outlandish place of magic and danger feels... inconsistent. Odd.

I am loving the potential of AoS for imaginative situations, settings, retellings of traditional stories with a twist, it's really an interesting addition to the (already stale) Old World setting, so lived in, so storied, but also so immobile. The good thing is that if I want, I can just change the names into something I like. The bad thing is that I have to say "Flamescar Plateau" to other people. 

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Seraphon works because it'd playing off of the angelic Seraph term as they are a anti-chaos force that comes from the heavens, having variants made of daemon destroying starlight is quite the boon as well. 

It does evoke white-winged smooth angelic humanoid beings of lights (or pale babies with dove wings and little bows)

What it doesn't scream is AZTEC LIZARDMEN. SLANN seems a much more fitting option, or maybe TEOTL (although then they couldn't copyright it). But Seraphon... is it singular? Plural? What language is it? It's surely not the lizardmen's language, it looks nothing like it. They're pre-Columbian South American cultured lizards and dinosaurs. Not angels. Giving them a name associated with something they look nothing like is dissonant.

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Orruks, Grots and Ogors is really simplistic and gives the indication that the Greenskins named themselves from what they could recall, which had forced approval on scholars as Gorkamorka was a respected part of the pantheon at the time.

This is not how people or cultures do things. I doubt Gorkamorka cared much for policing scholarly publications or the Azyrite people's names on the Greenskins. Another small inconsistency.

It's those little deviations, contradictions and general neglect which takes one away from immersion.

But as you all said, the world of AoS has a lot of potential. Let's give them some more years and a couple good novels (Some Gileads or some Drachenfels)...

[HorticulusTGA]

@Cèsar de Quart I strongly encourage you to read the Core Book 200 pages of background, then ; it will have details on food, trade, people, etc. in the Mortal Realms. If you want to have characterization in this environment, "City of Secrets" and "The Old Way" do a great job of giving a sense of scale and details.

For the naming convention, it's absolutely no better than WFB ; you had to tell awkward  (by your standard) things to people in WFB too. I mean, how is "Flamescar" any worse than :

- "the mud flats of Albion"

- "the Doom Glades of Naggaroth" 

- "the Marshes of Madness (with its "Ruined tower") from the Badlands" 

- "the Black Fortress in the Dark lands"

- "the Dragon Isles in the Lizard sea". 

In fact, when you see a WFB name, even if it's "cringe worthy", it's immediately more acceptable because it refers you to an established world. For example, I've read again the Reamlgate Wars chapters set in Ghyran, and now that I know the wider context of the Everspring Swathe, it's already way more coherent. 

AOS is young. We'll surely see more details (like "in universe" maps) in the AOS RPG late 2018/2019. Remember how interesting and diversified WFB looked when it was a few years old ? Not!Earth seems way less interesting than the high fantasy Mortal Realms are right now. Anyway, while linked together, those two worlds are different ; you cannot expect the same tone in both.

 

[EccentricCircle]

11 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

I find the names fine, personally.  Really add to the idea of a unique setting of it's own and when you get into a fluff conversation with them it's quite fun as you feel you're both on the level.

Seraphon works because it'd playing off of the angelic Seraph term as they are a anti-chaos force that comes from the heavens, having variants made of daemon destroying starlight is quite the boon as well. Orruks, Grots and Ogors is really simplistic and gives the indication that the Greenskins named themselves from what they could recall, which had forced approval on scholars as Gorkamorka was a respected part of the pantheon at the time.

That's an interesting point, which I hadn't considered. In the thousands of years since the age of chaos you would expect linquistic shifts. This would particularly be true among races like the greenskins who have never been able to spell in the first place!

I guess I dislike Seraphon, because to me the Lizardmen seem like a really odd fit for angels. I like the idea of demons of Order, but would like them to create something new, maybe inspired by the weird, "eldritch abomination" look of mythological angels (rather than the guys with wings that are generally depicted...) It sort of feels as though they didn't quite know how to fit the Lizardmen into their new setting, and so opted to make them demons because they didn't look like humanoids.

I come from an RPG background, so am massively looking forward to seeing what light  the AoS RPG sheds on the setting. From what i've read about early warhammer it sounds as though the Old World we know today really came into its own with WFRP, and that then got reflected in the Wargame. It looks like they are in the middle of a concerted effort to flesh out the setting, so I have high hopes that it will soon be just as rich.

As to names on Maps, I agree that both worlds have always had a lot of "Generic Fantasy" type names, which arguably look just as ridiculous when you first see them. I think that the issue is possibly that the new setting is larger and more diverse, and so has less linguistic consistency. In the old world the Marshes of Madness and Black Fortress are interspersed with place names which are routed in the culture they embody. The Empire has a Germanic feel, Lustria an Aztec one, the fact that many of those names are really bad puns (Middenheim, Bordeleaux etc.) just adds to the quirkyness of the setting.

Other place names in the old world evoke different inspirations from the fantasy fiction of the day, or are references to myths and folklore. Naggaroth I suspect is drawn from Tolkien's Nagathrond, evoking the Silmarillion in the mind of the reader. Chrace seems to be drawn from Thrace in ancient Greece, while Albion is clearly lifted directly from the Matter of Britain. Cothique may well be a reference to the Zothique stories of Clark Ashton Smith. I'm sure there must be place names inspired by the Elric Books given how much of an influence that was on early warhammer, but I don't know that series well enough to recognise them.

The point being that many of the made up names would have seemed familiar to the reader, and evoked a sense of the world. I don't think that this is true to the same extent these days. Possibly because we have such a wealth of fantasy that fans of the genre no longer have the same reference pool. Ironically when it was more of a niche genre, everyone could be expected to have read the same things, and pick up on more obscure references.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

The point being that many of the made up names would have seemed familiar to the reader, and evoked a sense of the world. I don't think that this is true to the same extent these days. Possibly because we have such a wealth of fantasy that fans of the genre no longer have the same reference pool. Ironically when it was more of a niche genre, everyone could be expected to have read the same things, and pick up on more obscure references.
 

Familiarity is an important part of worldbuilding; either make something familiar, or make it immersive (both, if possible). That's where the Old World excelled: you didn't need to know anything besides the name and a couple of sentences to imagine what Bretonnia was like, and one look at the map of the Empire and one of their soldiers and you knew what to expect. Ninjas in Nippon, the Jade Emperor in Cathay, Nehekhara, Kislev, everything was easy to relate to. Not very original, but relatable. Familiar.

The Mortal Realms lack, as you say, linguistic or cultural consistency. It's eight realms of ruined empires upon ruined empires, I expect layer upon layer of cultural development. It doesn't have to be too complex; either pick from eixsting Earth cultures (obscure ones, if you like; Etruscan, Tocharian, Phoenician, Inwit, Mapuche...) or create a couple or three standard "Ancient Cultures" that are the basis for the Realms' nomenclature. Then, build on top of this.

For example, I loved the idea of the Infinity Gears, the giant cogwheel buried beneath the dust of millennia built by God knows who. Maybe I missed something, but did we ever get any other development on this? Who built them? Could it be that there was an ancient empire that built a vast expanse of machinery with unknown objective? There's the famous Lantic Empire and its different iterations. A sentence like "he caused the fall of the Sixth Lantic Empire" is already filled with questions. What is this empire? Why were there five others before it? How did they disappear? It reminds me of Schliemann's excavation of Troy and the eight or nine cities built on top of the ruins of each other (Troy VIIa being the favourite contender for Homeric Troy). This is good concept, but it needs a bit more work.

Either way, we all agree that there's a lot of potential.

[HorticulusTGA]

36 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

Familiarity is an important part of worldbuilding; either make something familiar, or make it immersive (both, if possible). That's where the Old World excelled: you didn't need to know anything besides the name and a couple of sentences to imagine what Bretonnia was like, and one look at the map of the Empire and one of their soldiers and you knew what to expect. Ninjas in Nippon, the Jade Emperor in Cathay, Nehekhara, Kislev, everything was easy to relate to. Not very original, but relatable. Familiar.

The Mortal Realms lack, as you say, linguistic or cultural consistency. It's eight realms of ruined empires upon ruined empires, I expect layer upon layer of cultural development. It doesn't have to be too complex; either pick from eixsting Earth cultures (obscure ones, if you like; Etruscan, Tocharian, Phoenician, Inwit, Mapuche...) or create a couple or three standard "Ancient Cultures" that are the basis for the Realms' nomenclature. Then, build on top of this.

For example, I loved the idea of the Infinity Gears, the giant cogwheel buried beneath the dust of millennia built by God knows who. Maybe I missed something, but did we ever get any other development on this? Who built them? Could it be that there was an ancient empire that built a vast expanse of machinery with unknown objective? There's the famous Lantic Empire and its different iterations. A sentence like "he caused the fall of the Sixth Lantic Empire" is already filled with questions. What is this empire? Why were there five others before it? How did they disappear? It reminds me of Schliemann's excavation of Troy and the eight or nine cities built on top of the ruins of each other (Troy VIIa being the favourite contender for Homeric Troy). This is good concept, but it needs a bit more work.

Either way, we all agree that there's a lot of potential.

Familiarity comes from established definitions. It took years to WFB to come with consistent definitions for all the (human) nations you've mentioned. What of the other races ? Is the name "Athel Loren" alone enough to be relatable ? Chaos was based on Conan and Moorcock, elfes and dwarfs on Tolkien ; quite established "IP", too. 

Indeed, Bretonnia and two description sentences wouldn't be enough to be familiar with it. You'll be familiar with the Arthurian mythos and chivalry, i.e. the original archetypes it is based upon, not with Bretonnia itself. Bretonnia was something else, something more. It took years to create its history and features. Idem for Nehekara, Cathay, the Empire, etc. 

After reading the Core Book, I hope you will be more familiar with the 4 regions of the Mortal Realms explored there (the Great Parch of Aqshy, the Spiral Crux of Chamon, the Innerlands Prime of Shyish and the Everspring Swathe of Ghyran). And that you'll be able to work with analogy for the other parts of the Realms. 

--

About the Lantic Empire : https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/path-to-glory-eshort.html 

The point of the Lantic Empire is precisely to be one of those mysterious, ruined empires from the past ; the hints scattered on the maps and in Battletomes are precisely there to represent the scattered ruins of fallen civilization. 

Also, if you read about Seraphon, you'll see there's a lot to speculate on the possible links between them and the Infinity Gears. (You need to have some Old Ones and Lizardmen knowledge too, for that).

TLDR : you cannot ask for familiarity the same way it existed in the 30yo WFB  for a very young world (the Core Book isn't even out yet), that is on the top of that more high fantasy than the World-that-was (.... or if you didn't read a lot about AOS' background ; then it's your job  ).

[EccentricCircle]

I absolutely agree that in years to come the new places and cultures will be more recognisable. The more you use made up names, the more familiar they become, until they do take on a meaning of their own.

However WFB kind of took a shortcut in creating that familiarity. They based their names and the design of their maps on established elements of real world geography, mythology and language, as well as references to fantasy.

The name "bretonnia" isn't made from whole cloth. It deliberately invokes Britain, Bretons, Brittany and other etymologically related terms. For an audience that is familiar with British legends, and the tales of the Round Table that name evokes a certain aesthetic. You can easily reinforce that with a couple of (Long) sentences and your job is essentially done. For example:
"Bretonnia is a land of questing  knights, where fair damsels watch from lofty spires, while chivalrous champions ride to war atop their chargers. However beneath the decadent heraldry and shining armour lies a land of vast inequality, where peasants toil amidst the muck and danger lurks in the woods."
You invoke the Arthurian mythos with the first sentence, and with the second imply that its grim and gritty (because warhammer). Sure there's a lot of nuance to Bretonnia which that doesn't capture, but it gets the gist of the setting across.

[Baron Klatz]

 

Quote

"It does evoke white-winged smooth angelic humanoid beings of lights (or pale babies with dove wings and l ittle bows)

What it doesn't scream is AZTEC LIZARDMEN. SLANN seems a much more fitting option, or maybe TEOTL (although then they couldn't copyright it). But Seraphon... is it singular? Plural? What language is it? It's surely not the lizardmen 's language, it looks nothing like it. They're pre-Colum bian South American cultured lizards and dinosau rs. Not angels. Giving them a name associated with so mething they look nothing like is dissonant."

 

Haha, depends on what angels you know of. The later representation that gained Greek influence and then winged humanoid forms(and thus the winged baby cherub origin), yeah.

The original angels that were eldritch beings of light that could be many forms like wheels with eyes...

That might fit a bit better with the Lovecraftian-vibe primordial nonhumans that were created by ancient beings to shape a world and resist chaos.

 

As for the name it likely was coined by the Azyrians who give everything names relating to their celestial realm and divine importance. The Slann probably couldn't care less as they never cared about being called Lizardmen which would be the equivalent of us being called Monkeybarbarians.

[Cèsar de Quart]

Familiarity is acquired with time, yes, but there are shortcuts, like evoking already familiar concepts.

Seraphim may be wheels with eyes in the Ezekiel prophecy, but come on, that's not what people have in mind when you say "seraph". I would be totally on board with a faction based on angels (but not traditional angels, mind you, angels as they have been portrayed through history, especially in the Middle Agers: the three pairs of wings with eyes, the lamb with seven eyes, the seven trumpets breaking the walls of Jericho and the broken seals before the End of Times, etc, etc. But again, that's not Aztec Lizardmen.

Probably the Slann call us their version of Monkey-barbarians for sure. In their language.

[Baron Klatz]

Meh, well I found very few people who had problems with that explanation but then they didn't like the change to Order daemons in the first place. Those who liked the new fluff were very positive when they figured out what Seraphon was referring to.

Besides that there's already a angel faction and that's Stormcast. The hinted at light aelves that Tyrion succeeded at may be angelic too but time will tell.

And yes in the Floren novel the Slann thought of the humans as shore monkeys.

[Cèsar de Quart]

People having no problem with something is not the point; you can always put more effort into something. The little things matter.

Anyway, I'm cool with the new setting, I just wish they had a more serious approach to basic worldbuilding, but I'm sure that time will make the Mortal Realms deep and interesting.

Not everyone is a toponymy and etymology geek, like some of us are, especially those who come from History degrees or similar fields of study.

[Kirjava13]

While we're talking about place names (and I agree that a lot of the AoS place names are just nouns picked from a fantasy dictionary and jumbled together), I always find it worthwhile remembering that the Warhammer world had a place called the Altar of Ultimate Darkness, which is simultaneously the best, the worst and the most Warhammer name in existence.

[Skyeline]

5 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

While we're talking about place names (and I agree that a lot of the AoS place names are just nouns picked from a fantasy dictionary and jumbled together), I always find it worthwhile remembering that the Warhammer world had a place called the Altar of Ultimate Darkness, which is simultaneously the best, the worst and the most Warhammer name in existence.

Naggaroth truly was home to some of the most storied and cherished places in all of WHFB.

How could we forget about places such as the Plain of Dogs! Which I can only assume wasn't suitably spooky sounding enough for some of the Druchii, so they named the land south of it the Plain of Spiders. Take that Plain of Dogs! 

Sorry Naggaroth, it's a little too easy to pick on your naming conventions.

[Yoshiya]

I think grounded maps are important just because of how throw away everything in sigmar has been so far. They very very rarely revisit locations meaning you never really build any sense of the world as as soon as you get introduced somewhere you're already off to the next place full of generic names. If they at least had more grounded maps that marked these locations you might get a sense of where they belong in the world and actually remember stuff about them.

[EccentricCircle]

They are starting to make some progress with Hammerhal at least. It seems to be being revised sited ever mire frequently.

[Bloodmaster]

18 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

However WFB kind of took a shortcut in creating that familiarity. They based their names and the design of their maps on established elements of real world geography, mythology and language, as well as references to fantasy.

This! WHFB, at least in the rule and army books hadn't much of good world building but more a lazy variant that did profit from a deeply grounded link to real places and history. While this may result in an easier understanding of the setting and allow some very funny and intersting parodies and jokes - Brets as over the top frogeating pesant exploiting franchmen with a not so subtile hint of Monty Python's holy Grail, Dark elves and thier Home land placed where North america would be, the Empire a steampunky dystopian version of the holy roman empire.... - it doesn't make for a very consistant and imaginative setting, although it can be establieshed over the years.
Come to think of, much of the Worldbuilding besides warriors and constant war was done through novels in WhFB. Stuff like every day life and foodproduction wasn'T explained in the coregame, besides being hard and gruesome for everyday folkes.

[Cèsar de Quart]

It was explained (I remember the Big Red Book devoting several pages to describing many of the places in the Old World, as if it was a 16th Century traveler's almanac. But even if it didn't, they wouldn't have needed it either. It worked much like in our world, because the same ground rules applied.

Besides, who didn't love Bertrand de Bergerac, Jean le Petit and the other Merry Men?

[sandlemad]

On 6/24/2018 at 5:29 PM, EccentricCircle said:

For example, as a long time fan of the Lizardmen I kind of dislike the name "Seraphon". It doesn't really seem to fit with any of their established lore and names, doesn't really represent what they are etc. I wish they had named the faction Slann, since that race is in charge, directs the other forces, and has a long tradition as a part of the various warhammer settings. I think the same principle could have been applied to the Orcs and Goblins. I reckon they could have done something with the concept of the Waaagh! which would have been more inventive than Orruk.

I second the dislike of Seraphon as a name. All the angelic anti-chaos connotations technically work, as folks have brought up, but don't feel appropriate - they're in isolation as the only esoteric distinctly religious element -  or even make for an interesting contrast with the rest of the background.

Bizarrely the name mentioned for lizardmen in the pre-launch AoS rumours was Exoatl, which feels to me like a much better name for the faction than either Seraphon or Lizardmen. Got that central american feel but also the sci-fi 'from the stars!' implication from the 'Ex'. It's surprising considering it was mentioned alongside such made-up nonsense as Nigmos. I can see why GW wouldn't use something like it though, might not be a great idea to choose a faction name that folks may find intimidating to pronounce.

[EccentricCircle]

2 hours ago, sandlemad said:

Bizarrely the name mentioned for lizardmen in the pre-launch AoS rumours was Exoatl, which feels to me like a much better name for the faction than either Seraphon or Lizardmen. Got that central american feel but also the sci-fi 'from the stars!' implication from the 'Ex'. It's surprising considering it was mentioned alongside such made-up nonsense as Nigmos. I can see why GW wouldn't use something like it though, might not be a great idea to choose a faction name that folks may find intimidating to pronounce.

I like Exoatl, that would have been great. Although of course, if it was an aztec word it would be pronounced more like "Eshoatel" (apologies to anyone who actually speaks Nahuatl, i'm sure i'm not getting that quite right!) so arguably the latin inspired route would be lost in translation.

[HorticulusTGA]

13 hours ago, Yoshiya said:

I think grounded maps are important just because of how throw away everything in sigmar has been so far. They very very rarely revisit locations meaning you never really build any sense of the world as as soon as you get introduced somewhere you're already off to the next place full of generic names. If they at least had more grounded maps that marked these locations you might get a sense of where they belong in the world and actually remember stuff about them.

That's pretty unfair ; there is lots of places revisited again since summer 2016 (when we got the first map of central Ghyran) ; 

For example, 1. Season of War : Seeds of Hope (summer 2016), 2. the (early 2017) Stormcast Eternals Battletome, 3. Path To Glory (the narrative part of the book, 2017), 4. Warhammer Quest : Shadow Over Hammerhal (2017), 5. Season of War : Firestorm (2017), 6. Malign Portents campaigns book and short stories (2018) ALL deal with the SAME places, in the central part of the Great Parch in Aqshy (see the attached map). 

The "Realmgate Wars" Ghyran locations (so those from the books between summer 2015 and 2016) are all referenced in the Seeds of Hope map (summer 2016), expanded in the Core Book's Everspring Swathe map (2018) and in various Black Library novels. 

The Malign Portents website map (the Innerland Marches) does reference almost all the locations discussed in the Malign Portents short stories and campaign books (2018), like for example some Idoneth Deepkin enclaves (it works for other Realms too ; the Fuehtan enclave (2018) is hidden under the Mordacious Sound sea, which was first introduced in 2015 (!) in the Main Book and expended in the Great Parch map of the Core Book. 

The Kharadron Overlords Battletome maps of Chamon (early 2017) are also expanded in the Core Book (summer 2018). 

Etc. etc. etc. etc. 

Really, it just seems that some people just don't really know the background... I said it again : it's your job, if the world doesn't look familiar to you then read on and get familiar with it !  

(I didn't do that myself, credit to the unknown editor!)

[EccentricCircle]

12 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Snip

That's some nice work georeferencing those disparate maps. The fact that they are matching up without distortion definitely shows that they've tried to be consistent in expanding on the established areas. Or alternatively that they've been working from a larger map, and cut out sections of it for use at various points!

[michu]

Don't forget Josh Reynold's books. He constantly use known places and characters to create coherent narrative e.g. Crawling City, Excelsis and Lord-Celestant Gardus. https://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/141145687263

[Cèsar de Quart]

Horticulus, you're right about the gradual exploration of already referenced places and the continuous drawing of maps. I'd like more in-universe maps, but maps are maps, and are always welcome. Although I have something to say about the way they're expanding the lore too: I don't have the time to read all the books or the money to buy them. GW has done a very bad job at promoting their new setting if I need to buy all of their books and read them to get a faint idea of how it all fits together. It's as if I wanted to learn some Chinese history and the core textbook only gave me some very sketchy and local maps, said a couple of lines for most provinces (not all), spoke about its history in hush tones and half broken references, and then I had to read other kinds of books for very small snippets that add to the knowledge I already have. It's... not great.

I havent' read the core rulebook yet, and I'm very much looking forward to a traveller's guide to the Realms and their people. But ever since AoS began, this has not been their core concert, that's obvious.

I remember when I first saw the map of the patch in Aqshy. I saw green-orange seas and ashen lands and I thought: "who the frak lives there, and how?". The maps are fine, I guess. It's the presentation, the conveying of information, which was off.

PS: Josh Reynolds talks about boundaries, and that's something that makes me wonder a bit about the nature of the Realms. For example, as I understand it the Realms are in disarray and many of them are greatly tainted by Chaos, if not outright conquered by it. Chaos probably has the same effect it had on the Old World (we all remember Praag and its nightmarish sequels to the Chaos invasion). Are there any remaining empires and realms of old, from before Sigmar's Tempest? Or have they all fallen to Chaos? Maybe only the important ones?

How long has it been since the start of the Tempest? How old is Hammerhal? That malign portents story about cogforts and Greywater prospectors talked about a Great War. What war is that?

Again, maybe this is all in a novel, but I don't really have the time to read all the novels. I've read a couple by Reynolds and I've liked them enough, although they have a tone that's very different from what you see in the army books, almost as if Reynolds still had one foot in Altdorf while the Phil Kelly and other GW writers are already far high in Flash Gordon land.