GH2017 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[Malakithe]

I just want Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz to be great lol

[svnvaldez]

56 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I just want Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz to be great lol

And BCR and Moonclan! Lift the stonehorn nerf!

The stonehorn is dead long live the stonehorn

[Malakithe]

Well that faction focus was just as terrible and disappointing as the Grots...

[Oreaper84]

Do you think the italicized reference to point drops at the end is in reference to the splitters or something else?

[Skabnoze]

Yeah I have to agree.  It spoiled and endless spell and had no good news about the army it was meant to cover.  I don't think this trend really bodes well for Destruction.  My expectation when these faction focus articles began was that Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz, and Beastclaw Raiders would see some attention at least in the GHB and anything beyond that (like more allegiance abilities) would just be happy extras but I was not going to hold my breath. 

I  was really looking forward to this faction focus because I feel that Bonesplitterz could use some attention to move the army back towards the horde of angry guys that hit people with rocks that it was obviously designed to be.  Honestly, cost adjustments could do most of that work.  Now, that is not to say that there are not any cost adjustments coming in the GHB 18 for Bonesplitterz, but it is indeed odd that GW did not call out any of that as they have with just about every army.

It feels at this point like they have sort of blown their load when it comes to teasers and now they are just going through the motions.  I hope that they can release the new edition before they fully run out of steam for their hype train.  But most likely they will have a 2 week pre-order period so even if they announce that this weekend then that means 2 weeks before anything releases.

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

Do you think the italicized reference to point drops at the end is in reference to the splitters or something else?

Quote

And, of course, you’ll be able to dedicate your Bonesplitterz army to a Mortal Realm to get access to some powerful artefacts, take advantage of some points drops and much more.

So, I totally missed that little blurb at the end about some points drops.  It is very curious to me that they tossed that in without drawing attention to it.  Isn't that the sort of thing you would want to make some noise about to the people playing the faction?

[amysrevenge]

I'm worried that we maybe missed the point of the Faction Focus articles? 

I would imagine that there are many (most?) factions where the only changes to them in the early days of the new edition will be points adjustments and access to the new spells and Realm artefacts and such.  Maybe (like Dispossessed) a single addition to the Battleline-if list.  So then the question is: once they reach the end of the game-wide new mechanics they wish to leak/tease, what do they do with these factions?  Not have Faction Focuses at all, or put up some nice fluffy pieces with a link to the store at the end?

[broche]

i was expecting they be more precise on point drop. basicaly just an interview with a bonesplitterz player, a new spell (that is nice).

i guess anyway we will know everything soon enough.

[Towenaar]

Yeah I was a bit let down by it, though the mention of points decreases at the end leaves me with a little hope.

[Skabnoze]

13 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I'm worried that we maybe missed the point of the Faction Focus articles? 

I would imagine that there are many (most?) factions where the only changes to them in the early days of the new edition will be points adjustments and access to the new spells and Realm artefacts and such.  Maybe (like Dispossessed) a single addition to the Battleline-if list.  So then the question is: once they reach the end of the game-wide new mechanics they wish to leak/tease, what do they do with these factions?  Not have Faction Focuses at all, or put up some nice fluffy pieces with a link to the store at the end?

Well, if that is the case then I think they missed a big opportunity really.  These are meant to get people hyped up about the new edition and drive sales.  Even a change in points or making something battleline can be exciting.  Why not write each of these to get existing players of that faction excited about the new edition and get others interested in playing that faction and buying some stuff.

Making some faction focus articles really exciting for a faction with new mechanics & adjustments announced and then making another one absurdly light on content with little to be excited about for that faction means you risk alienating the existing players for that faction.  None of the Destruction faction focus articles aside from the Ironjawz makes me more prone to go out and spend any money right now.  Ironjawz are getting cheaper Maw Crushers.  That is amazing and makes me want to go buy some.  The rest of the spoiled factions don't have much of that sort of thing announced.  So now I am more likely to simply bank my money for the new edition and wait until I get the GHB'18 and new Rulebook in hand before I purchase anything else. 

That seems like a marketing failure to me.  If they had simply said in the grot article that there was a price reduction for Moonclan Warbosses then I would have actually been excited.  It does not take much.  If the Bonesplitterz had said that Savage Orcs and Morboyz were going down in price (or maybe Big Stabbas) then I would again have been excited.  It seems like such an easy thing for them to do that it really feels like no effort went into the writing of these.

 

[bonzai]

Fingers still crossed that the battalions see some major point drops. To me that is the biggest thing we can get, barring new models.

The endless spells have possibilities. Extra mortal wounds, spell extenders, protection from sniping, possibly healing. I saw some mortal wound artifacts previewed too, so possibly some slight buffs there. Main thing is if we get enough point adjustments to be able to afford the new toys. 

[broche]

interesting note, it seem command ability might not be limited to once per turn:

"Using command abilities on your orruks is going to make for some really deadly combinations. The Wurrgog Prophet’s Prophet of da Waaagh! allows one of your units to pile in and attack again – using multiple Wurrgog Prophets, you could trigger this across several different units several times in a row."

However the wording suggest you can only use it once on a given unit.

 

[Sheriff]

4 minutes ago, broche said:

interesting note, it seem command ability might not be limited to once per turn:

"Using command abilities on your orruks is going to make for some really deadly combinations. The Wurrgog Prophet’s Prophet of da Waaagh! allows one of your units to pile in and attack again – using multiple Wurrgog Prophets, you could trigger this across several different units several times in a row."

However the wording suggest you can only use it once on a given unit.

 

Yeah all the teasers have suggested you can't stack the same ability on a particular unit. 

[PlasticCraic]

@Sheriff they did put one up on their FB page about the Wight King, saying you can "transform you chosen unit of Deathrattle into a veritable blender".

Note the singular, which is strongly implying you can spam it on the same unit.

So that does seem to be in conflict with the language used today...I'd tend to believe this latest one though personally.

[Malakithe]

Pretty sure abilities dont stack no matter what. Unless that is changing too. 

I hope there is more changes then just points reductions. Some warsctolls and items need to be reworded across the board.

As ive said in other sub forums all the faction focus themes are like 'blah blah your faction is primed to take advantage of the new edition blah blah' then all the talk about is a select wizard using the new flashy spells. As far as destruction is concerned so far there looks like points drops across the alliance. My guess is battalions for the entire game are dropping.

[Skabnoze]

That said, I am not sure how often I would really want to run multiple Wurrgog prophets in order to have access to this.  They are a pretty darn good caster but this is a faction with 3 of the 4 current heroes as wizards.  In addition, none of the current battalions really support 2 Wurrgog prophets since it seems like the idea behind the army is that it is led by a single Wurrgog prophet.  I guess it will depend on how the endless spells and realm spells turn out to be.

[broche]

But i  think the wight king combo was multiple heros on single units. I suspect you can't use same command on a given unit

[PlasticCraic]

@broche I think you are correct, it seems like you will need multiples of the same hero to use the same CA multiple times.

My reply was more in relation to your comment (and @Sheriff 's) that you can only use it once on a specific unit. 

That may turn out to be the case, but if so it contradicts the post on the FB page that seemed to be saying that multiple Wight Kings could make the same unit attack over and over.

Overall I guess more magic is more better, given that we're a magical army. 

Although given that we are by far the weakest magical army in terms of access to bonuses to cast and unbind, if you see more of the armies with significantly better bonuses (e.g.  Tzeentch and Death), and more unbind artefacts being taken by other armies to counter them, we could be caught in the cross fire and have our magic phase completely shut down.  Which doesn't bode too well for steering us away from Arrow Boy spam.

Our casters in general are chronically overcosted compared to what other GAs have access to, so hopefully a drop in points for them would mean we can at least spam them, and get 5 or 6 casting attempts per turn, to draw out the unbinds.

I'd actually like to see an Erratum to our Allegiance Abilities that says a cast on a double cannot be unbound in any way.  A pretty simple and thematic change, and at least then we'd have a slim chance of getting casts through against the likes of Nagash armies.

[PlasticCraic]

I'm still crossing everything for a decent points drop on Big Stabbas.  I really think that they are key to making this a viable melee 'n' magic army.  Maniaks have the volume of attacks, but you also need that punch, and they are the only unit to bring it. 

100 points for 4 attacks hitting on 4s is rather dicey to say the least, especially when they have a 6+ save and are an obvious and easy target to get shot off the board.

If they were 80 points, and coupled with a realignment of the points for Heroes and Batallions, you would realistically be able to run enough units to get some into combat consistently...and then it's party time! 

[bonzai]

1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

 

Although given that we are by far the weakest magical army in terms of access to bonuses to cast and unbind, if you see more of the armies with significantly better bonuses (e.g.  Tzeentch and Death), and more unbind artefacts being taken by other armies to counter them, we could be caught in the cross fire and have our magic phase completely shut down.  Which doesn't bode too well for steering us away from Arrow Boy spam.

I would actually say that we are without question the best casters destruction has to offer, and no slouches when it comes to casting/unbinding bonuses. It is an investment though.  

Kopp Rukk can give a +2 to cast. Draw backs are that it is only for wardokks in the Battalion, which costs a lot, and requires a critical mass of Moreboys.

Wardokks can provide plus one to cast and unbind. It even stacks with its self. Only drawback is that it is a one in 3 chance to roll it.

Mork's Boney Bits gives +1 to cast if an enemy monster is within 24. Could be good with the realm of ghur ability to put random monsters on the board. Will help Moreboys too.

Mystic Waaagh Paint also gives +1 to unbind.

Outside our army we get access to balewind (+1 to casting and unbinding), and a Rogue Idol (+1 to cast). 

I have been trying to get an incarnate elemental of beasts for over 2 years now, as the 11 to summon doesn't scare me when you start stacking bonuses. We can get or even surpass other armies casting bonuses, but its not handed to us.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah that's the thing, they are all either super expensive (Kopp Rukk and Rogue Idol) and / or outside of your control (Wardokk dance and Boney Bits). And I wouldn't count the Balewind cos literally every army has access to that, for now at least! 

I must admit I've never tried the Boney Bits because I've always seen it as way too situational, but I've used all the others with varying success. For example you need multiple Wardokks to have a reliable chance of getting (let alone stacking) their +1s, at which point you're approaching the points cost of a Lord of Change. 

Kopp Rukk (and the Morr Boys) needs a steep points drop imo - but could be the core of some really interesting builds if it gets it.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I still think Big Stabba units were a bit of a error forced by the need to have more units overall. I can’t help thinking they’d have been better employed as special weapon upgrade a la Gore Choppas for Savavge Orruks and Morboyz. Would have given them much more bite. Alas that one has sailed and Big Stabbas are a great unit anyway. 

I think I’d like to see a general points drop across all battalions I feel the problem with the Kunning in Rukk is more to do with the Arrow Boyz than the Battalion itself maybe it’s they that should be dealt with. Rather than all battalions getting a spank. It’s pretty good for combat units but it’s just that for shooting it’s much much better.  

[Towenaar]

I think Arrow boyz are going to be less useful in the new edition. Now they'll be hitting on sixes most of the time when targeting characters, +1 to hit with our spell is going to be a bit easier to unbind, plus they'll be quite easy to engage in combat with such a large unit, limiting their target options.

I think they'll still have a place in the army, but I'm not sure armies full of just Arrow boyz will be as common.

[amysrevenge]

15 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Pretty sure abilities dont stack no matter what. Unless that is changing too.

Some do and some don't, depending on how they are worded.  You have to read each ability to know if it stacks.  Many events or clubs or local metas institute a blanket no-stacking house-rule.

An obvious example: without the Matched Play rules of one, you could cast Mystic Shield (the current version) on the same unit multiple times and it would stack.

[Skabnoze]

My feeling is that the army really needs a decent rework with a new Battletome.  It has some of the right pieces, and the theme they built into the force is absolutely great, but it still seems to suffer from the fact that they stretched 2 box sets really far when making the units and they did not add any new models to the force.  They had 4 hero models and 2 plastic box sets and they tried to stretch that out into an entire faction.  They also seemed to be very conservative with the stats that they gave to the units.

Having 2 wounds across the board is nice, but most of the infantry is really lacking in volume of attacks.  Savage Orcs have historically been a high-volume of attack unit of frenzied lunatics.  They are described in the background as still being a savage frenzied force of destruction - but their rules don't really reflect that.  The various spells and command abilities do reflect that, but the units themselves do not.  Oddly, the only unit that has rules to multiply attacks are the Arrow Boyz - which is absolutely the wrong unit for that.  Savage Orcs should ideally sit in a sort of middle-ground between units like Vulkite Berzerkers (defensive berzerkers) and Witch Elves (pure offensive frenzied berzerkers).  It says something to me that the standard Orc unit in the Greenskinz allegiance gains extra attacks for bigger units - which leads to a higher volume of attacks than Savage Orruks even if they are armed similarly.  It also puts regular Orcs on about the same footing as Morboyz.  This really should not be the case.  Savage Orcs (of all types) really should be tossing more attacks than they do. 

I feel like they could really use an adjustment to warscrolls and the addition of some non-shaman heroes such as Totem bearers.  But, that won't likely happen for quite a while so I think the best we can hope for at the moment is some effective cost adjustments.