The Shadespire News and Rumour Thread

[Double Misfire]

On 06/02/2018 at 10:00 AM, VJ Morph said:

Needs more Skaven!

Presto magico:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/07/warband-focus-spiteclaws-swarmgw-homepage-post-1/

[Requizen]

14 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Presto magico:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/07/warband-focus-spiteclaws-swarmgw-homepage-post-1/

These guys look completely different to any other Warband we've seen so far. There's no clear hard hitter, usually there's at least 1 or 2 models that are designed to punch out solid damage, in this one it's obviously supposed to be Skritch and Krrk, but neither has cleave and even Inspired they're nothing special. However, lots of Double Defense dice and fairly insane speed means they get to dictate engagements against pretty much everyone except Khorne. 

Whether they're good or not depends heavily on their Objectives. As the Neutral Objectives stand, they're not great at the fighty ones, so they'll likely take Objective cards, though their squishy statlines and lower numbers means they're not as good at it as Skeletons. When all the new Objectives hit we'll have a better idea, just not sure how they'll play at this point in time.

[Sim]

Just heard from local store the new warbands won't be stocked unless ordered. Doesn't bode well.

[Killax]

Mwehh Skaven don't look that exciting, will get them but I think my Shadespire adventure will be done after getting the Stormcast 2.0 and Blood Warriors.

[Gorthaur]

53 minutes ago, Sim said:

Just heard from local store the new warbands won't be stocked unless ordered. Doesn't bode well.

A GW store or a local independant one? Either way i'm not shocked most places are horrible at supporting GWs smaller games like Blood Bowl, even Necromunda.

[Sim]

7 minutes ago, Gorthaur said:

A GW store or a local independant one? Either way i'm not shocked most places are horrible at supporting GWs smaller games like Blood Bowl, even Necromunda.

GW. 

[Requizen]

That usually depends on size and shelf space. If it's one of those smaller strip mall sized ones, then they generally don't have room for stuff outside the two flagship games other than maybe a couple box sets (like the main Shadespire box). If it's a larger one with more wallspace, then I'd be a bit more concerned. 

For reference, I'm close to two GW stores. One is relatively small - only one table and just enough shelf space for the main line stuff, I think they only have the main Shadespire box and even that's under the table and not on the shelf. The other one is quite large, 3 full sized tables, and there's an entire display area for Shadespire including Orruks and Skeletons. 

Considering they just starting showing off Organized Play and Grand Clashes have been going well, I doubt they'll be decreasing coverage of the game.

[Sim]

Just now, Requizen said:

That usually depends on size and shelf space. If it's one of those smaller strip mall sized ones, then they generally don't have room for stuff outside the two flagship games other than maybe a couple box sets (like the main Shadespire box). If it's a larger one with more wallspace, then I'd be a bit more concerned. 

For reference, I'm close to two GW stores. One is relatively small - only one table and just enough shelf space for the main line stuff, I think they only have the main Shadespire box and even that's under the table and not on the shelf. The other one is quite large, 3 full sized tables, and there's an entire display area for Shadespire including Orruks and Skeletons. 

Considering they just starting showing off Organized Play and Grand Clashes have been going well, I doubt they'll be decreasing coverage of the game.

Mine sounds more similiar to the first one.

[Sleboda]

32 minutes ago, Sim said:

GW. 

Wow. That really would be a bad, bad sign if true. Damn.  I'm really enjoying this game and would hate to see it die.  ☹☹☹☹

[Sleboda]

FWIW - 

 

I just got off the phone with my local GW manager - a guy I've known for more than 15 years and I trust - and he said he has had no indication of Shadespire (or Necromunda) being non-stocked.

In fact, he gave me a number on his initial stock levels, and without getting into it, I can say the levels are strong.

 

[Biboune]

I saw some of the new ploys (skaven extension I think):

Rebound: reaction after a successful enemy attack , roll a dice: on a dodge or a critic, the enemy suffers the damages, he cannot be push.

Ready for action: reaction, after playing an upgrade on a fighter in the action phase, move or attack with this fighter.

Earthquake: puss all fighter 1 hex in the same direction, nothing happens to a fighter who cannot be pushed.

Curious inversion: for the next activation, switch hammer for sword, sword for hammer, dodge for shield, shield for dodge.

 

Those cards are very powerful, look design for skavens or bloodreavers: Rebound will hurt strong fighters like stormcast, Curious inversion is much better than Bloodrain (Karsus against orruks or stormcasts...) both offensive and defensive. Ready for action is a free attack (or hit and run, better than the orruk one when played on a 4 or 5 speed figther).

I fell there is going to be too many "auto-included" cards once the new extensions are released...

 

 

[Requizen]

11 hours ago, Biboune said:

 

I fell there is going to be too many "auto-included" cards once the new extensions are released...

 

 

My Skeleton deck already includes 6 Ploys and 7 Upgrades I would consider auto-include. The only one of these I might consider a must is Curious Inversion, but even then I'm not sure. 

The cards are super strong but I don't think it'll replace all the cards people have currently. 

[Changer]

All of these were shown of on the stream last night.  Some very interesting stuff here.

[Requizen]

Ready For Action is insane. Might be the strongest card shown so far. So many uses for that card.

Curious Inversion is very strong, but only against specific Warbands. If you're playing against Khorne/Skellies/Skaven, you're just making them harder to kill. While it's amazing in certain circumstances (Karsus vs Shield opponents, wow), it's not great in half the matchups, so I don't know if I'll include it. 

Can't tell if I prefer Demonic Weapon or Shadeglass Hammer. Orruks would prefer Demonic (for Inspire), and maybe Skellies too since you can just rez the guy with it, but sticking Shadeglass Hammer on one of the lesser Dwarves perhaps seems better. Maybe even for Karsus in specific situations.

[Changer]

16 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Ready For Action is insane. Might be the strongest card shown so far. So many uses for that card.

Curious Inversion is very strong, but only against specific Warbands. If you're playing against Khorne/Skellies/Skaven, you're just making them harder to kill. While it's amazing in certain circumstances (Karsus vs Shield opponents, wow), it's not great in half the matchups, so I don't know if I'll include it. 

Can't tell if I prefer Demonic Weapon or Shadeglass Hammer. Orruks would prefer Demonic (for Inspire), and maybe Skellies too since you can just rez the guy with it, but sticking Shadeglass Hammer on one of the lesser Dwarves perhaps seems better. Maybe even for Karsus in specific situations.

Don't forget you'd be able to use Curious Inversion in your action  phase before your opponents turn - it's (IMO) a better version of Blood Rain, but that can be used by all.

[Soulsmith]

Yeah, I can definitely see those cards making their way into my decks. Going to pick up the skaven, in all my years in the hobby I have never painted a rat-thing.

[Hesa_First]

Earthquake is extremely powerful. Played after the fourth activation it ruins the whole first turn of every objective-hold strategy. I mean really ruin it, like rendering the hole turn useless. If you play such a deck You need Earthquake on Your starting hand, just to counter Earthquake. Otherwise You will fall behind to such an extend, that the game is most likely over.

Strange design imo.

[Requizen]

Much like Distraction or other push cards, the Objective player can counter Earthquake with Sidestep or Shifting Shards to get back on. You could also potentially stop it with Forceful Denial, and we don't know what other cards will be added with the new expansions. 

But yes, Earthquake is a very strong card for aggressive decks fighting against defensive ones. It's another nail in the coffin of "sit back" decks, though it's not the end of the world for them. Objective based play will still be more consistent at gaining Glory overall, I bet.

[Hesa_First]

5 hours ago, Requizen said:

Much like Distraction or other push cards, the Objective player can counter Earthquake with Sidestep or Shifting Shards to get back on. You could also potentially stop it with Forceful Denial, and we don't know what other cards will be added with the new expansions. 

But yes, Earthquake is a very strong card for aggressive decks fighting against defensive ones. It's another nail in the coffin of "sit back" decks, though it's not the end of the world for them. Objective based play will still be more consistent at gaining Glory overall, I bet.

 

True, there will come many new cards and I do not think Earthquake will be overpowered. I just dislike the design of Earthquake, it is just too easy to spoil great plays and plans without the slightest efford. 

It seems unsatisfactory to dedicate Your whole turn grabbing that annoying objective in enemy territory under heavy losses to score supremacy, just to have this turn completely destroyed by one card. And some factions just don't have that much they can do about it, pushing three fighters back in place with plays only is close to impossible (save for Earthquake).

Maybe Earthquake is supposed to punish "sit back" decks or to make the first roll off less desicive. But it can ruin really great plays and can turn well executed turns into utter garbage without any finess to it. This needs no planning, no thinking at all, it is just playing a single ploy.

[Goblin-King]

3 hours ago, Hesa_First said:

True, there will come many new cards and I do not think Earthquake will be overpowered. I just dislike the design of Earthquake, it is just too easy to spoil great plays and plans without the slightest efford. 

It seems unsatisfactory to dedicate Your whole turn grabbing that annoying objective in enemy territory under heavy losses to score supremacy, just to have this turn completely destroyed by one card. And some factions just don't have that much they can do about it, pushing three fighters back in place with plays only is close to impossible (save for Earthquake).

Maybe Earthquake is supposed to punish "sit back" decks or to make the first roll off less desicive. But it can ruin really great plays and can turn well executed turns into utter garbage without any finess to it. This needs no planning, no thinking at all, it is just playing a single ploy.

So in other words, it's overpowered?

[Hesa_First]

7 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

So in other words, it's overpowered?

Maybe I didn't put it right. Earthquake might become a top tier card, who knows.  But thats not my point. It is a card that punishes good plays. It requires a lot of planning an thinking to get hold of key objectives to score Supremacy, Tactical Supremacys and what not and its extremely hard to pull of.  Earthquake is designed to destroy such a turn with minimal to no efford. Sure there are some niche uses, but that seems to be the intention behind Earthquake. And thats a very lacklustre design imo.

I hope that sums up my point a little better, as a non native speaker it is hard to phrase such concepts.

[Sleboda]

12 hours ago, Hesa_First said:

. I just dislike the design of Earthquake, it is just too easy to spoil great plays and plans without the slightest efford. 

This is the overall issue with Objective-holding strategies already  - you work hard to position your models to achieve them, setting up multiple triggers,  and then bam, with no planning or effort it gets yanked. Earthquake just cements the death of this style of play, especially at tournaments.

[Biboune]

I don't totally agree with you: supremacy for example is not very hard to score. It is the only 3 glory points objective card that can be scored round 1, without having to roll any dice. The Guard needs 2 activation get in position, and it also help to score March of the Dead, with lucky objective cards hand this band can score 5 or even 6 glory points round one without any fight. Not matter what objective cards the Guard player has at the beginning, he will put petitioners on his objectives without planning to score supremacy right away: Earthquake can be played in vain.

Other bands need more activation to get in position but it is not "hard" once you have the 3 objectives in your territory. 

Supremacy is just no longer a must have card. 

There are forceful Denial, mirror Earthquake, Side Step and Shifting shard to help Objective-holding decks against Earthquake. May be new cards will help too.

In other hand, there is cards that will help in the fight (Rebound, Curious inversion for the moment); Holding objective will be easier if Gurzag or any Stormcast punish themselves instead of smashing skelies. 

I want to underling that Illusory Fighter can ruin Denial and Contained, two others 3 glory points cards with are harder to trigger and are third round. Plus Illusory Fighter can be very useful in other situations. 

[Rintrah56]

On 30/01/2018 at 4:23 PM, Biboune said:

 

6 hours ago, Sleboda said:

This is the overall issue with Objective-holding strategies already  - you work hard to position your models to achieve them, setting up multiple triggers,  and then bam, with no planning or effort it gets yanked. Earthquake just cements the death of this style of play, especially at tournaments.

Which means less focus on ‘hold objective’ cards, which then means less use of Earthquake, which then means more use of ‘hold objective’ cards, and so on...

All of which is, for me, the beauty of the balance in the game. And which sets it apart from other systems where, it seems to me, there is often a ‘thing’ to beat, and sometimes it’s just very difficult to beat full stop no matter what you do. Rather than being a true self-regulating balance.

Still need to play more before I can make any proper conclusions about balance,  but I have no problem at all with Earthquake or anything else at this stage. All feels to me like it has clearly been built into the design from day one (with a staggered release) rather than new design on top of previous design...

 

 

[Red_Zeke]

49 minutes ago, Biboune said:

I don't totally agree with you: supremacy for example is not very hard to score. It is the only 3 glory points objective card that can be scored round 1, without having to roll any dice.

This.  Sometimes hold/tac supremacy/supremacy are tough work, but they can also really fall in your lap.  And if you're worried about Earthquake, you counter with Earthquake- same as you had to do with Distraction/Peal of Thunder/Terrifying Screams.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Red_Zeke