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JayJay11

Mighty Skullcrushers or Chaos Knights

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Hello All!

I have a question.  Yesterday I finally got my Khorne Lord on Juggernaut. I love this Model. But I have a question. I think only the Lord should have a Juggernaut (I Love themed armies, I like them more than maxed lists).

After looking on the warscrolls I'm wondering if the Skullcrushers are better than the Chaos Knigts with Khorne mark. Knights are faster and push out I would say the on average the same amount of attacks plus the save against mortal wounds. So whats your thought? At the Moment I would pick the Knights over the Skullcrushers, which fits to my first thought about the Juggernaut only for the mighty Lord.

Thank you in Advance!

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I've not played with Skullcrushers (wrong god for me), but I've not been massively impressed with the knights. They do a great job of getting into combat and picking their fights, but they've tended to win by grinding out their opponents rather than breaking them on the charge. You might also benefit from taking the skullcrushers just so that the Lord isn't lagging behind the rest of the force. 

That said, rule of cool trumps all. If you like the idea of only your boss getting the cool steed, then go that route (and don't forget to post some pictures!)

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I'd go for the models you prefer. I think both are cool and serve a little bit of a different combat purpose but the difference isn't too large. What's much more important for every unit to consider is their cost vs the unit they are charging. Especially for Knights this is a deal maker. Large and more expensive units just thake the Skullcrusher or Knights hit. 

Between the two neither is really 'better' they are both good for different situations. If you can boost the movement of the Knights through Bloodstokers your more guaranteed to get that charge and that first strike in. For them this type of bonus is very helpful. On the other side Skullcrushers have a great resilience against magic which versus Tzeentch for example is much more important.

As I am a massive Khorne fan my advice would be to start out with the Skullcrushers. Also for hobby purposes because then you can upgrade the Knights to be more Khorne looking with some spare heads and shields from the Skullcrusher box. Getting them both is cool to, the Knights halberds are more impressive as the Khorne spears.

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My experience is that Skullcrushers are better as a mobile speedbump, while Knights are a little more offensive, at least if you can get the charge.  I'm working on the assumption here that you're looking at Khorne mark, which means both units benefit from Khorne buffs, which means more numbers =  more impact.  

I generally take both.  Skullcrushers are for jamming in the face of stuff and holding it up so that the rest of my army gets the shot in.  Knights, especially buffed knights, are for killing things.

FMB

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skullcrushers, the mortal wounds impact hits do almost as much damage as the entire knights attack damage output..

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How does a 50/50 shot at d3 mortal wounds equal the knights?  Knights with glaives, unbuffed, get 10 attacks (not factoring in the leader).  5 hit, 10/3 wound.  On the charge (which is a reasonable comparison, given that's when the SCs get their chance at mortal wounds), that's 3.3 wounds at -1 for two damage each.  Call it 2.3 get through on a 5+ save, 4.6 damage, not counting horses.  The mortal wounds are 50/50 on an average of 2 wounds = 1 mortal wound.  Knight output is 4x the MW output.

FMB

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Then what ? Their damage is gone the rend is gone, and they've a worse to hit than swords.

If you run swords it's a better long term damage.

At their most lethal they maybe do 5 damage. 

Well, the skullcrushers charge alone does 1 minimum 1 mortal wound if it triggers. Then their combat. Which is more consistant over longer periods

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50/50 to go off is a lot of if.  Could be local meta, maybe?  I find skullcrushers underwhelming when it comes to killing stuff, but my knights do work on a regular basis.

FMB

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27 minutes ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

 

50/50 to go off is a lot of if.  Could be local meta, maybe?  I find skullcrushers underwhelming when it comes to killing stuff, but my knights do work on a regular basis.

FMB

Yeah, anything 1 wound with a 5+save never happens near me. It's either 2/3+ or 3+wounds

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I guess GW must think the Chaos Knights are a bit better at least, considering they come in 20 points more than the Skullcrushers.

And I guess the fact that the mortal wounds are unreliable is part of that. If you don't get your mortal wounds off, then the Skullcrushers just end up with less attacks than the Chaos Knights even if they do have a bit of rend. The shield bonus for the Knights is better than the Crushers as well.

 

But overall, take whatever you feel fits your army. Personally feel that unless you're cyclcing through armies like no tomorrow, the difference between the two is likely gonna be unnoticeable. They're not worlds apart in power level.

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For what it's worth, I take a unit of both almost every game.  They both have a role to play.  At a bare minimum, they're durable, and relatively fast for our army.

FMB

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How many skullcrushers were you thinking about getting? If you were planning on getting 3 or more units then the brass stampede battalion would make the skullcrushers much better than the knights. However, if you just want one or two units then you might as well go with knights because they are cost less money and it sounds like it fits your theme better.

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Knights have a cool Battalion too. But as with Chaos Warriors vs Blood Warriors the differences just arnt that large.

I love the Khornate asthethic, I would vote Skullreavers.

If JayJay loves the Chaos Warrior vibe Id vote Knights.

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I've been taking 10 Chaos Knights and 9 Skullcrushers in my lists lately. The Knights look so badass with Khorne helmets, shields and glaives I can't leave them at home...

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2 hours ago, Roark said:

I've been taking 10 Chaos Knights and 9 Skullcrushers in my lists lately. The Knights look so badass with Khorne helmets, shields and glaives I can't leave them at home...

Thats my feeling as well. 

I also want to add the Knights are quicker and make better use of the (3) Blood tithe option. 

What I have been doing recently is flanking them, having them hit up support heros, and then in my opponent's hero phase using blood tieth to pull them back and screen other units.  

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Haha, I've been doing something similar using Blood Sacrifice!

Another thing to note is that Knights can be Sayled across the battlefield. I haven't been doing that much though, because I'm a little bit addicted to giving them and their mounts 4 attacks each. Usually this is via Bloodmarked Warband, because the poor little Aspiring Deathbringer can't usually waddle fast enough to buff them properly without using weird unit formations.

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On 1/12/2018 at 7:38 AM, Fireymonkeyboy said:

My experience is that Skullcrushers are better as a mobile speedbump, while Knights are a little more offensive, at least if you can get the charge.  I'm working on the assumption here that you're looking at Khorne mark, which means both units benefit from Khorne buffs, which means more numbers =  more impact.  

I generally take both.  Skullcrushers are for jamming in the face of stuff and holding it up so that the rest of my army gets the shot in.  Knights, especially buffed knights, are for killing things.

FMB

This is super true and super bizzare when you think about it. The Skullcrushers are on ****** RHINOS. How could they end up being less killy than a guy on a horse.... but that's how the cookie crumbles.

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1 hour ago, phizzco said:

This is super true and super bizzare when you think about it. The Skullcrushers are on ****** RHINOS. How could they end up being less killy than a guy on a horse.... but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Essentially this boils down to: the riders are worse overall on Skullcrushers. It's not the fault of the Juggernaughts (Which do of course, have a better profile than the Horses) but the riders of the Chaos Knights are just a ton better on the charge.

Skullcrushers might get the rend -1 all the time, but Knights get that on the charge plus 3 more attacks (With the leader hitting on 3's) plus damage 2 weapons. And while the Skullcrushers get D3 mortal wounds half the time, it doesn't scale with buffs at all.

You also can't Sayl Skullcrushers near the enemy, nor can they be used outside Khorne (I'm kinda thinking that Nurgle Knights could potentially be quite scary).

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Love my chaos knights and can usually find a place for at least a unit of 5 in most lists. You do need to pick your targets as they aren't great when tar pitted. When moving round the flanks to threaten heroes/war machines they are awesome. I have 3 x Bloodcrushers and don't rate them at all. Skullcrushers appear to be the better option for Juggernaught Riders but I prefer good old knights overall.

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1 hour ago, someone2040 said:

Essentially this boils down to: the riders are worse overall on Skullcrushers. It's not the fault of the Juggernaughts (Which do of course, have a better profile than the Horses) but the riders of the Chaos Knights are just a ton better on the charge.

Skullcrushers might get the rend -1 all the time, but Knights get that on the charge plus 3 more attacks (With the leader hitting on 3's) plus damage 2 weapons. And while the Skullcrushers get D3 mortal wounds half the time, it doesn't scale with buffs at all.

You also can't Sayl Skullcrushers near the enemy, nor can they be used outside Khorne (I'm kinda thinking that Nurgle Knights could potentially be quite scary).

So far I've been able to avoid buying "older" models outside of the KLoJ and some chaos knights. While I do they they look like some of the coolest models from the past style, I feel like if I'm patient more, cooler looking new models will come out. Maybe I'm being a prude lol. 

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If you have two units of the skullcrushers, you can charge with one unit and roll for the deadly wounds. In the second turn you retreat them and charge with the second unit to roll for deadly wounds again. This way, you can keep the opponents unit busy and get the charge bonus every round to grind the opponent away;)

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