Gwendar
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@flamingwalnut True, but including both the Archmage and Luminark together would be tough unless I drop some artillery, which is kind of the point of this list Not sure if losing 1 ballista is worth an Archmages shield. I can't think of anything that could screen better at their point cost, plus I have a nice conversion in mind for the Guard anyway. Like I said, definitely more of a fluff list and I don't expect to win anything from it other than an opponents eyes gleaming at all the artillery + magic carts. Thinking on it I don't think there is much I could really do to make it more competitive without losing more of the fluff I want. May just proxy some models and see how it goes.
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New ideas, especially now that I really like the idea of a Hurricanum. Unsure of realm artifacts to give out. Allegiance: Greywater FastnessCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)Archmage (100)Lord-Ordinator (140)20 x Freeguild Guard (160)- Swords and Shields20 x Freeguild Guard (160)- Swords and Shields10 x Freeguild Guard (80)- Swords and ShieldsCelestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Steam Tank (260)Steam Tank (260)Balewind Vortex (40)Soulsnare Shackles (20)Total: 2000 / 2000 This gives me +1 to hit from both the Ordinator and the Hurricanum, and plan to have everything within 18" range if possible. Archmage provides some defensive buffs with Elemental Shield to everything within 18" as well, which is increased with the BW. Again, meant to be a fluff list, but if it could be made a little more competitive I'm all ears. I realize this is mostly an ultra-turtle list and objective capture will not be in my favor. The other option I considered was adding a Luminark and dropping 10 more Guard, Archmage, and endless spells. Thoughts?
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@Tropical Ghost General Good idea, hadn't thought of that. True, I guess after the investment I made into NH a few months before the drop, I just didn't want to add more to my collection. Not to mention I have no desire to run another horde/semi horde army. I may consider proxying 2x20 reapers to see how they do. As for the Mourngul, I realize a Black Coach would be a better investment, especially when you consider the healing it can put out, but frankly I didn't care for the model..far too obnoxious/too much going on for me with the over-extension past the base. Hoping the Mourngul does well enough as a 300 point distraction at the very least.
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Anyone been having any luck with a Spirit Host heavy list? I've got a 1500pt game on saturday and am considering running 3x6 SH's, a Mourngul, Olynder and a GoS. Leaves me with 100 left for something, not interested in endless spells however. I know the flying blenders that are the Reapers are probably best, but I decided to try for the tarpit route + heavy healing (@2k I have a ST and Vampire Lord as well). I figure with Olynders command ability (unsure if that is better over Ruler of the Spirit Hosts) and the guardian healing with Beacon It could be reasonably survivable.
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Sounds about right. It can be a hard matchup as we lack the same level of CC effectiveness. DoK lists with an aggressive player behind them are usually pretty nasty, I lucked out in that my matchups against them were a little less so and I could sit back and shoot/MW away to whittle them down. It took getting my ass handed to me by Tom Lyons to see the huge errors I had in my Skryre list so it's always a great learning experience to get destroyed by a tournament player.
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I see what you're saying, and 20 Clanrats could do that for at least a turn against a reasonable deepstrike against your cannons. I just believe that 40 monks should be treated strictly as a combat unit and with the threat of a unit of them and the grinderfists popping up somewhere, it should make your opponent cautious. Just keep in mind almost all objectives can be moved off of once they are capped on your turn, allowing you to counter charge before they can touch it with the right turn priority. Oh, and I have a lot of love for the palisade in every army of mine, especially with my Ironjawz. Like I've said, the best thing you can do is take a few different lists like you've shown and just experiment. We all have different playstyles and everyone's local meta is different, so what works well for me may not for you and vice-versa. I think everything you've suggested has been great under a certain scenario, so just go give them all a shot and be sure to write up a battle report so we can see how it worked out!
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@RaritanAnon If you want bodies for objective control I would advise you to use 40 Clanrats over Monks. Monks are less resilient but more punchy than clanrats (especially outside of pestilence buffs), hence why they are great for tunneling and charging a unit. Plus you save 40 points by going with 40 clanrats, who are still great to tunnel in should you decide to go that route, and what would be better for taking some damage. Outside of that, I've never been a fan of using a mix of Warpfire+Grinderfists as you have to tunnel up more than 9" away, meaning your Warpfire stormfiends will not be able to hit anything the turn they pop up. At that point it's just better to have ratling guns (don't) or a melee unit to get a 9" charge in.
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I agree, while it's no gaunt summoner, the spell is still good at knocking a few notches off a horde unit, which we lack power in doing unless you bring a few mortars. I've stopped using them as of 2.0 as they were never really reliable anyway. I'd rather have more unbinds from another wizard. All in all I think you should just experiment a bit with what works with you local meta. I would say regardless you should keep the tunneling unit of 40 monks, outside of that a Grey seer or 20 clanrats as you suggested could be nice additions. Just don't expect those clanrats to last more than a turn or so at screening anything.
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Looking back at previous conversations, I've redone the list a bit. Perhaps this is more attractive/competitive: Allegiance: Greywater FastnessFreeguild General (100)- General- Stately War Banner- Trait: Inspiring - Artefact: Phoenix StoneLord-Ordinator (140)Excelsior Warpriest (80)20 x Freeguild Guard (160)- Swords and Shields20 x Freeguild Guard (160)- Swords and Shields20 x Freeguild Guard (160)- Swords and Shields10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Steam Tank (260)Steam Tank (260)Total: 2000 / 2000 An unbind+heals from the warpriest, and bit more CC punch from the greatswords. I started to feel like handgunners weren't really needed with the emphasis on artillery, and hopefully 20 guard can hold an objective decently after artillery soften things up. My other idea was to drop a ballista and get in an Archmage for the Elemental shield spell, further improving the guards defense. And that would be an additional unbind. The second option is dump the ballistas, priest and Greatsword units for 4 rocket batteries. I've no experience with the ballista or rocket batteries, but the 4 rocket battery averages seem good when combined with the Ordinator and that's not counting Greywater allegiance. Not sure how 4 ballistas compare to 4 rocket batteries. Thoughts?
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@RaritanAnon I would honestly leave out the jezzails. Unless you're taking them in units of 9-12 (with or without the battalion) they are simply not that great anymore from my personal experience. It would probably be better to just save those 140 points for another wizard considering magic being heavier this edition. A case could possibly be said for 1x3 of them plinking at something and getting lucky, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. I had a unit of 9 last tournament with the battalion, and even against witch aelves it managed only 4-8 wounds on average per turn, and again, that was with nine of them shooting twice per turn. Granted I rolled horribly most of that game, but the entire time I wished I had just brought a second cannon or more bodies. I like going with a 3 wizard minimum in most of my armies since my local meta kind of forces those unbinds. @deumosd There are plenty of ways, a lot of that was covered back in the old thread. Most of us use plague monk bodies or blood-bowl team bodies and then various throwing arms/backpacks. Personally, I went with plague monk bodies, electro-priest arms and skitarii ranger backpacks and I would just hit up ebay for 40k backpacks and see what you can get that you think looks good. For the orb, I just used a plastic airsoft BB. But there are many more options, I just found that was the quickest/easiest way without needing to greenstuff anything. If you really want gas-mask style heads, you can also look into veer-myn heads from another game, but I wouldn't recommend doing this if you want to use them at a GW store (unless they allow 3rd party bits).
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@RaritanAnon Shock Gauntlets and Grinderfists for sure. I run 1x3 each of Grinders, Warpfire and Shock Gauntlets to much success so far. 3 Grinders works far better than my previous use of 2 ratling + 1 grinder. I would honestly keep the warp-grinder so you can tunnel up the Monks. I don't think another warpfire thrower and some defensive spells will compare to having a blob of 40 Monks popping up anywhere and getting a charge in. Also, I'm not sure you will have much success with a single warpfire thrower and no screen. I would consider dropping it and just get another packmaster or some more endless spells/CP. Lone warpfire throwers really want to be screened by a bigger blob of units, and since you cannot take 2 units with you with the grinder, it would be quickly sniped off the table before it got in range.
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I've played against them twice before against a 60 witch aelf + 10 Khinerai list with pure Skryre, but the player was a little more passive/defensive than he should've been I think. I did well just shooting the hell out of the witch aelves to knock each unit of 20 down a few notches so by the time it got to me, it didn't hit as hard (of course, 7 of them still managed to do around 13-17 wounds before saves) and then I could finish them off with Stormfiend units. I would honestly stick as many warpfire throwers inside of/behind your blocks of monks/clanrats and get some MW spellcasting/good shooting (so, not the plagueclaw) to hit everything a bit. The cauldron of blood and Morathi will be things you want to get wounds on as well, but I believe whittling down the witch aelves with MW's or shooting is the better way to go unless you think you can kill the cauldron in one go. Always try to get the 3 wounds on morathi each turn however. If they are using a melusai list, the same type of rules apply, but probably better to just focus fire units.
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Sure, I thought of that and just replacing the crew with freeguild guys to make it not look so...stormcast. I'm not exactly tied to the idea of the rocket batteries, and I can easily see the ballistas would be better and save some points. But no matter what, I want at least 2 tanks, so I would be a little forced into GA Order, which is fine since I would want to run Greywater with that much artillery/tanks. The latest question was more or less; Do I want to do 3x10 handgunners, or 1x30? To be honest, I'm starting to think about dropping the handgunners altogether, going 3x20 Guard, 2x10 Greatswords and 4 ballistas along with 2 tanks, an Ordinator and General. That may be a little more solid as I should have enough ranged punch from the ballistas and tanks to not really need the handgunners. Leaves me with 80 points for something as well.
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I thought not. I think he is really just looking for value, and he already bought a SC box. Overall he wants a list of big dino's that can do decently, so Thunderquake seemed to fit the bill. I guess I really only looked at the Engine in terms of it's summoning ability, not so much everything else it can potentially do. Granted he could buy 2 boxes and have some left over models to summon in. How about running something more like this then? (I didn't realize that thunderquake needed only 1 Kroxigor unit OR 1 salamander/razordon + handlers, so I took those out): Allegiance: SeraphonSlann Starmaster (260)- General- Trait: Great Rememberer - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)- War Spear- Artefact: Blade of Realities Engine of the Gods (220)- Artefact: Coronal Shield 5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Lances3 x Kroxigor (160)- 1x MoonhammersBastiladon (280)Stegadon (220)Firelance Starhost (150)Thunderquake Starhost (120)Dracothion's Tail (80)Total: 2000 / 2000 Or hey, maybe he just give up that battalions and just fit in as many big dino's as possible, but then the cost will start to go up. This is more or less meant to be the most competitive/cost effective way of getting 2k. With 2 SC boxes, he will have warriors and various other things to summon in as needed.
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How about a Firelance+Thunderquake? I have someone just getting into AoS and we came up with this. He doesn't want a horde army nor has much interest in summoning a bunch of models in that he doesn't have: Allegiance: SeraphonLeadersSlann Starmaster (260)- General- Trait: Great Rememberer - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)- War Spear- Artefact: Blade of Realities Battleline5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (90)- LancesUnits3 x Skink Handlers (40)1 x Razordons (40)3 x Kroxigor (160)BehemothsTroglodon (160)Bastiladon (280)Bastiladon (280)BattalionsFirelance Starhost (150)Thunderquake Starhost (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2
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True, ever thought of trying it out without a battalion? I posted a list suggestion above and I've been really curious to run it and continually move out of range of things to whittle it down with the high body/shooting count.
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No more pure shooting lists then eh? I've thought of adding in eternal guard but..I don't know if I really want another "gunline" style army utilizing them + sotw. The EQ always seem to do their job nicely from what I've seen.
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Hmm, lots of debate about not running ironfist or ironfist+bloodtoofs. I may have to try a few games without them and bring along a bit more units, but I really enjoy that movement increase for getting to objectives quickly and taking cover from shooting since the allegiance is unreliable. Not to mention the 1 drop, extra CP and artefacts. I swore off of using Ardboys, but I have recently begun changing my mind. If only taking 20, are they best used as 1x20 or 2x10 for coverage and using as many shields as possible+dual choppas? The rest of the list is pretty standard, 2x5 brutes and 1 unit of gruntas. 20 wounds per 10 seem like more than enough to hold something up for the small brute units to smash into, but I haven't been playing around with IJ as of late so I'm a little rusty on their tactics...hence why I bring both battalions and suicide bomb the cabbage into combat before anything else is even close. Are cogs still pretty much an auto-include regardless of playing with Ironfist or not?
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Yeah...got a little carried away. To get back on track, I am really looking forward to start into these guys at some point. Brayherd was what I initially planned to get into until I heard they were much older and not doing so hot. Luckily, I really prefer elite armies so now being able to easily combine Thunderscorn and Warherd makes me pretty excited to get started on them eventually. Then again I have 2-3 others I wanted to get started on as well and not enough paychecks.
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True, they do prefer to be in 30's, but even in 10's, not moving + general buff they are still at 3's and 2's and I now have 3 Long Rifles instead of 1. I mean if I wanted, I could just take out the guard altogether and go completely into shooting, but I'm already doing that with my Wanderers army and not sure I want that again. I'm really looking for a "Hold the line" style army. Free People allegiance would be best for that thanks to Great Companies, but again, I then miss out on 3-4 pieces of artillery and 2 tanks, so. I may just get everything needed and play around with 3x10 or 1x30 along with 60 guard and see how it works out. I think the main idea here is really just to park guard on an obj with handgunners behind, with artillery in range of everything to whittle away at units going towards said obj's (not hard with 36" range) and tanks as well...tanks. I'm also justifying potentially running one side lighter than the rest (so one side of the board heavy with guard and 1x30 handgunners while the other is just a tank+guard unit?) So many possibilities.
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I see what you are saying, and we definitely need the unifying tome before anything else, from there I am fine with branching off but only if we get a little bit of something at first from that. I know Skaven are a unique and popular enough IP that they wouldn't get squatted, I think we're all just a little impatient at this point for something. I could easily see a bigger expansion on Eshin more than anything, or even Skurvy to create something "new".
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There's no need for chaos marks, and lore-wise I don't think it would make too much sense. They really just need to be put together to mix and match (along with updated rules/models for some things) in a "Children of the Horned Rat" type of deal, exactly like what they are doing with "Beasts of Chaos", like you were saying. It's either that or they get separate tomes, which won't happen.
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I mean, it worked for the Germans for awhile, so it will surely work with their Empire cousins, right? I'll definitely see what happens with 2 tanks, especially since the griffon general is less useful for his buffs and the whole point is to go shooting heavy anyway. This is more of a fun list that will surprise me if I win, but not disappoint me when I take a loss. I think I am just stuck on the battleline. There's a few ideas I'm tossing around with competitiveness in mind, either: 2x20 Guard & 3x10 Handgunners 2x20 Guard & 1x30 Handgunners Drop a ballista, 3x20 Guard and 3x10 Handgunners I'm gravitating towards the last one in order to provide myself with 3 solid lines for each section of the board/objectives with the general being in range of at least one of these group to support and having 1 less ballista for a more solid core seems like a good tradeoff. I face similar defensive armies/players locally and my heavy shooting Skryre lists have done decently up until recently (shoot away until they get close and finish them off with your average CC output), but even this has a little more push to it than those do so this should work out better.
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@GM_Monkey I see all of these points from you and Origin, I guess that's where I'm stuck. When it comes to a pure shooting army (I'm not overly worried about winning every game, I have other armies for competitive play, but definitely want to do decently with Wanderers and not get absolutely ran through every game) is it just better at this point to run something more like this without the battalion? Having the 1 drop is valuable, but anyone with have a brain can box you out since the deployment radius from the table edge is so restrictive. I view the battalion mostly as beneficial for the Princes ability but maybe I'm just overselling it? Allegiance: WanderersWaywatcher (120)- General- Trait: Stalker of the Hidden Paths/Eagle Eye/WhateverWaywatcher (120)Waywatcher (120)Nomad Prince (80)Spellweaver (100)- Heartwood Staff- Artefact: Viridescent Shawl 30 x Glade Guard (360)20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)Total: 1980 / 2000 Otherwise with the battalion I have pretty much the same setup Adreal has been using posted previously, maximizing on SotW.
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I've seen quite a few people suggesting lately that the battalion isn't worth it due to the ease of the nomad prince being killed (and its 12" activation right doesn't help) and realm wanderers only allowing 1 unit to move per turn after the initial setup of the entire army, possibly putting the whole army in a strange position since everything needs to fit within the table edges and preferably also in range of the princes targeted unit. Could it possibly be worth it to toss out the unnecessary units and battalion to add in more shooting and just use the standard realm wanderers to teleport a shooting unit around per turn? I still see the benefits, especially when it comes to 1 dropping the army, but I was curious as to everyone else's opinions on the pros/cons.
