Kyriakin

I miss the style of the Old School Grave Guard. Wish they were rediesigned in this style...

Two points about the Undead discussion...: - Normal skellies aren't going anywhere, as Black Knights are kit-tied to Hexwraiths (which aren't going anywhere) - If this does end up being the Castlevania army (i.e. skellies, zombies, vampires, etc.), we can probably rule out that Tomb Kings were removed for being "too generic". Thus, maybe the door is still ajar for desert-themed mummies in the future.

Banners are obviously incredible (duh...) On the dudes, while the colour fades are well executed, I just feel the creep too far into an almost creamy or greenish-yellow at the bottom, which detracts from the intended "firey phoenix " feeling a bit. Maybe you didn't want the overal miniature to be too overwhelmingly bright, but I feel bright yellow would sell the feeling of heat more. Then maybe directly to a tiny bit of white if you want to cap it off with "white hot" at the very bottom edge. No white/yellow mixtures... Note: When I look at my laptop screen from below, it looks much brighter. So , if it's just a photo/screen issue, feel free to ignore the above. Or just ignore it anyway!

These scultures are awesome! https://www.iloboyou.com/haunting-contemporary-sculptures-philip-jackson/

Based on the size of their threads here on TGA and the general anecdotal things you hear (or don't hear) about the army, they are the second-least successful thing starting with "Fyre", after the Fyre Festival. If Chaos Dwarfs are gone, Forgeworld should just give Kdaai FIreborn to the Fyreslayers. They would make the army look more themetically interesting.

It's mostly cirumstantial and/or anecdotal - but that's the only evidence we ever have access to - but it seems pretty clear that The Phoenicium is the red-headed stepchild least popular of the Cities of Sigmar subfactions. Their thread is, perhaps somewhat inevitably, just three three pages long, so I thought about kicking around some ideas about why this city is so lacking in popularity and how it can be salvaged before GW decide to have a god from another faction bulldoze it and call it their own. The first issue is theme. A thematically-tight city should be describable to a non-player in a single sentence, and that person should have a fairly strong grasp of what that city is. However, The Phoenicium awkwardly combines the two cool, but somewhat unrelated, themes of amber and phoenixes/birds. I feel you could make a cool army that leans into one of these themes, but not so much both together. For example, phoenixes with some old hawk-riding Wood Elves (gyrobombers?), skycutter charots (counts as Scourgerunner Chariot, etc.) and using the Corvus Cabal as crazy, bird-worshipping counts-as Flagellants (since you want units to die for bonuses) would be pretty cool. Conversely, leaning into the other theme with autumn-colored Wood Elves and pools of amber on the bases or embedded within tree stumps could work too. Finally, the city is in the Realm of Fire and I guess this is the closest thing with have to a generic "Fire City" in the way that The Living City is clearly the generic "Life CIty". You can pretty much make anything fire-themed, so this is always a doable, if not quite accurate to the lore, solution. Edit: Wow, I always thought it was Realm of Fire. Oh well, Realm of Life leans more into the autumn/amber theme above. Another issue is the timing. The natural player base for a High Elf legacy faction got their shiny new toys announced pretty soon after Cities of Sigmar was released. While the reaction to some models in the LRL release was mixed, most with a High Elf affinity would clearly rather make that faction work (i.e. with conversions, counts as, etc.) than taking The Phoenicium. Furthermore, the kinds of hot and/or brownish colors that the above bird/amber/fire themes tend to neccicitate are the complete opposite of those that the WHFB High Elves had (i.e. white, ice blue, silver, etc.), so this might have required an army to be built from scratch - something many would be unwilling to do with LRL on the horizon. Unless, of course, you don't care about the theme, and would just use white/blue/silver High Elves with Phoenicium rules, but, such players would likely just use these WHFB models as LRL anyway. This brings us to the rules. I'm not a particularly prolific or competative player, but it was immediately realised in CoS book reviews that, yet again, this sub-faction pulled you in two directions. Some of the most unkillable models/rules in the game, but requiring things to die for your main bonuses. Some briefly tried to make lists to straddle the divide (i.e. half and army of tough stuff and the other half comprised of things that explode), others went all-in with one dynamic (i.e. either everything lives or everything dies), while others just went for more genericly strong CoS lists that took advantage of toughness where it happened to occur and advantage of the death bonuses when they occurred. However, with the lattergroup of players simply avoiding the city's overall theme altogether, it meant that other cities - such as The Living City - ended up being preferable for these lists anyway. Either way, the schizophrenic rules were another reason why this city was just seen as "odd". So, is there any hope of this city being crushed by the future narrative? If so, how would you salvage it?

As far as I can recall, I believe some amongst the TW history crowd were initially bitter that CA had "sold out" for making a fantasy-based game, rather than concentrating on their historical-based titles. Following the success of TW:Warhammer, I think the return shots were what pro wrestlers call "a receipt". That said, I hope "30 Years of Total War" one day happens. I really want a pike-and-shot era TW game

Hypotehetical situation. Let's say that tomorrow GW suddenly released a press release saying that AoS is cancelled, with a view to returning to the Old World and square bases. The Mortal Realms were just a dream of Karl Franz, or whatever... It was stated that AoS models would still be usable - albeit not ideal - on round bases, and they would remain within the rules for the next few years until Old World replacements were rolled out to replace them, and this eventually came to pass. You don't think there would be small enclaves of embittered AoS players, who's lovingly collected, built, converted and painted Stormcast Eternal (Last Chance to Buy - as they don't belong in the Old World) armies are suddenly borderline unusable and the world they loved destroyed? Especially with the gleeful gloats of an occasional WHFB player ringing in their ears ("AoS was trash, so GW cancelled it, lol", etc.). No doubt one of these scorned AoS players would do something stupid, such as, I don't know... burn their army. This would then provide perfect ammunition for WHFB players to say "See?! AoS players are all crazy and toxic!" In situations like this, there are always bad actors on both sides. For the the side that are winning, these tend to take the form of smug, gloating gravedancers who can't stop reminding you that your Tomb Kings (etc.) sucked and nobody bought them, while the worst members of the losing side tend to bitterly lash out in a manner that is both disproportionate and sometimes not even towards the correct target (e.g. players of the new game, who don't even ever bad-mouth the one it replaced). Aside from the issue of GW's resources being something of a zero-sum-game (i.e. any resources spent on your Game X is not being spent on my Game Y), the bitterness all just tribal BS.

Then don't say anything until you are much closer than that. I am sure there are AoS armies that are 2-3 years out that we know nothing about, so why can't the same policy apply here?

As Vince Venturella often points out, being vague means that everyone is free to project their own specific hopes and desires into the project. Thus, it could never reach any of those expectations.

It's cause and effect, though. Models getting squatted due to recast buyers, or people buying recasts due to squattings? It seems that trust has broken down in both directions. I have never (knowingly) bought a recast myself, but many of those who spent a fortune on expensive genuine Myrworms, Preytons, Skin Wolves, Carmine Dragons, Dreadmaws, Fimir Warriors, Wolf Rats, (etc.) from ForgeWorld are probably regretting supporting the company now. Very few want to pay for Forgeworld, as they now have a history of not supporting their models (i.e. no correct KEYWORDS, current state of LoA, etc.) and then suddenly squatting them. Hell, even Legion of Azgorh players are telling newcomers to not buy a Legion of Azgorh army on their thread in the Chaos section here. Since such projects rely on strong sales numbers for continued support/releases, this self-sabotaging shows how little faith their own customers have in the company's future. They've been sold a pup (unless they are old WHFB players or 9th Age players, who already get/got some value out of the army), and are trying to prevent others from falling into the same trap.

I started around 1994 or 1995, with the old 3rd Edition models. Those skinny metal hunting hounds (with the handler, and his two outward-ponting blades) and, of course, the "Saturday Night Fever" and "Free Hugs Here" metal treemen. This was not long before the big 5th Edition release (i.e. Waywatchers, etc.) that made my old models look immediately obsolete.

Isabella Von Carstein's "Blood Chalice of Bathori" GW were never subtle, lol

I have never done so much mental gymnastics in list-building, and had so little reward for it, lol. At least if we keep talking, this thread will get long and city will seem really popular. Then GW might give it some love. It is almost more popular than The Phoenicium already, lol

Oh, awesome. Vince Venturella is usually pretty on the ball, but maybe slipped up there.

Oh, OK. I don't have access to the book yet (currently in China), so am relying on the 4dChan wording for Shadowstrike. If a hero can indeed Shadowstrike himself, the situation becomes slightly less awkward. I guess a final option could be SoBD to run out into the action, and slingshot deepstrikers into the enemy. She improves the Darkling Coven ratio too.

You only have two heroes, so it can only be the Sorceress or DLoBD (4dChan says "friendly", but does the book specify this?). Because you made her a Shadowlord, I assumed the Sorceress was the primary slingshot for something (the dragon, I guess) to Shadowstrike off for an easy charge, which means she would need to be in the thick of it near the enemy. However, because she is a Darkling Coven, she cannot herself be deepstruck and would instead have to foot-slog to the required position to be used as a slingshot. If you used the dragon as the slingshot, the issue is that he himself remains at 9 inches and unlikely to make the charge (unless heroes can Shadowstrike themselves, lol) How about grabbing a Lokhir Fellheart from eBay, and making him an in-theme Assassin general? Not only does the Assassin unlock Shadow Warriors as Battleline, but he is a Shadowblade and can therefore be Deepstruck directly into the thick of it, and then immediately used as a slingshot for other stuff that is also being deepstruck alongside him (i.e. the dragon, knights, etc.). Because he is cheap, it doesn't matter that he probably won't then make the 9-inch charge himself. Keep the foot Sorceress too, though. Word of Pain is good, and Misthavn players are going to need as many Darkling Coven units deployed as possible.

Making the Shadowlord a slow and fragile foot Sorceress means that it might be difficult for her to get in a good position for shadowstriking the Dragon/chariots nearby. Also, the chariots are all about the shooting and have a 30-inch threat range for that, so deepstriking and moving them D6 for the charge isn't going to get much done. Maybe say they are Drakespawn Chariots instead? Or maybe you were only planning to Shadowstrike with the dragon, and just using basic Underhanded Tactics for the Scourgerunner Chariots. The best use of the Shadowstrike that I can see is ten Drakespawn Knights coming in with the DLoBD, and making the 8-D6 charge (with muscican, obviously). if you plan to do it many times (i.e. multiple waves of Knights) make him a Shadowlord, and if you plan to do it just once take the extra Command Point instead for his buffing Command Ability on that Drakespawn Knight charge. Then he can have the 6+ shrug instead. It's all very "meh" though. Shadowstrikng 40 Crossbow Corsairs or 40 Cutlass Corsairs (with Fleetmaster) could have been fun, but oh well... PS: Warhammer Weekly said that Misthavn didn't get basic CoS traits. Do we have a definitive answer on this? I don't have the book yet. (He says it around 2:24:55)

Why are your dates out of order on regular calendars? According to my laptop, today is 12/02/2020 I keep thinking its February, and I have to Groundhog Day through 2020 again...

The old Wildwood (I will use this spelling to refer to the old wood kit, to avoid confusion) seems to be about the size of three of the new Citadel Woods (i.e. the minimum size for an Awakened Wyldwood), but you can make an Awakened Wyldwood that is six of the new Citadel Woods. That seems like it would be quite a big circumference for outside-edge shooting. Or, alternatively, you dump an Awakened Wyldwood near to a flying enemy, and just shoot with the whole unit of Shadow Warriors. Most armies have something decent that flies... (I wish we had that Blisterskin flying spell)

To be honest, I am more annoyed about losing the generic Cities abilities. I mean, why? Was this city going to be destroying everyone if retinues, adjutants and maxed-out Endless Spells were retained? The unique abilities are so restricted that I think this would still be almost the worst city if generic CoS abilities and there was a Anvilgard-type spell lore.

The rules for the two new cities make Anvilgard look both interesting and strong in comparison.

A typo is a bug. What kind of poor QC would lead to a million pound company printing a book with an entire spell lore missing? I think they ran out of space, and were like "****** it"

But a single Wyldwood could be up to 6 individual woods - thats quite a big cicumference. How many 25mm dudes could you line around the enemy-facing outer edge of a wood of that maximum size, while retaining coherency (etc.)? Anyway, I changed it to one TLA with one max-sized wood...: Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar - Mortal Realm: Ghyran - City: Living City LEADERS Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320) - Tough, mobile Cage of Thorns or Emerald Lifeswarm vehicle that debuffs enemy wound rolls. Fits my planned winter theme (sorry Flamespyre Phoenix) - General - Command Trait: Druid of the Everspring - Cage of Thorns Treelord Ancient (260) - Pump out a max-sized (i.e. six woods) Wyldwood, and then Lifesurge vehicle. - Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge Branchwych (80) - Unshootable in the forest with Deepmire Cloak (and unaffected by scenery rules), while pumping out Dryads - Artefact: Deepmire Cloak - Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin - City Role: General's Adjutant (the only time she will be within three inches of the phoenix is when they are both on the dead-pile...) UNITS 30 x Shadow Warriors (330) - Mirkwood Rangers dumped on an objective (or onto terrain near to an objective). 30 x Shadow Warriors (330) - Mirkwood Rangers dumped on Wyldwood, shoot (as many shots as the rules allow), move and 3" charge. 10 x Shadow Warriors (110) - Mirkwood Rangers wait to see where Phoenix flies off to, and then deepstrike as close as possible to be its retinue. - City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models) 10 x Phoenix Guard (160) - Forced Battleline. Probably won't keep up with Phoenix, but could try hidden paths. Head-swapped Eternal Guard. 10 x Phoenix Guard (160) - Forced Battleline. Probably won't keep up with Phoenix, but could try hidden paths. Head-swapped Eternal Guard. 10 x Darkshards (100) - Wanted some Glade Guard for old times sake. 3 x Aetherwings (40) - Nowt else I can afford, and fits the frost phoenix's theme, I guess. ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Extra Command Point (50) - Don't actually need this with deep-striking only one unit. Could remove with Aetherwings for ten more Darkshards Glade Guard, but Command Points are quicker and easier to paint. Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

How many of the ten are the full executioner hood guy (i.e. with the main hood down)? He looks badass... Edit: Found him...