Kosmion Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hey all I personally think it makes alot of sense to add skaven to the chaos GA, but what sort of morals/things does he represend? Khorne-violence/bloodshed Tzeentch-knowledge/timetravel/visions etc Nurgle-decay/survival Slaanesh-forbidden desires/pleasures TGHR-treachery/deciet? And is there a more universal name for him and his powers? Like "vermin" or just "skaven", or is he simply referred to as TGHR? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Progress! Rat things area always plotting and planning and creating the next big thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, Dez said: Progress! Rat things area always plotting and planning and creating the next big thing. but isn't tzeentch already the lord of that? progress = change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Skaven are better at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erasercrumbs Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 GHR seems primarily to be a god of delusion. Every Skaven thinks that he is the cleverest, most resourceful well of untapped potential ever spawned. From the lowliest slave to Thanquol himself, every Skaven believes himself to be the next Archaon, if only the bumbling universe will get out of the way. Unlike the ambition of Tzeentch, which isn't necessarily selfish, the kind of false confidence the GHR inspires is entirely self-serving. And unlike Tzeentch, the GHR delights in seeing the schemes of his underlings fail, because it reinforces how very much they need him. He is petty, vindictive, and ultimately self-destructive, and quite possibly the only Chaos god that is purely evil, which could be why Archaon scorned him in the first place. An aspect of the GHR that isn't touched upon enough in lore is that anyone who reveres him winds up being twisted into a Skaven. Like Nurgle, he converts his followers into an effigy of himself, but unlike Nurgle, the GHR sees these converts as useless toys whose only purpose is to fail as spectacularly as possible. That he enjoys tormenting his living avatars speaks to a kind of unrealized self-loathing unique to the GHR in the Warhammer setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Maybe not chaos, more like general disorder? Joking aside, I do struggle with skaven being in chaos. They feel like a mix of the themes of chaos and destruction to me. There are aspects of both but they don't easily sit in either and seem more like a faction mid way between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Cowardice and deceit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Praecautus said: Maybe not chaos, more like general disorder? Joking aside, I do struggle with skaven being in chaos. They feel like a mix of the themes of chaos and destruction to me. There are aspects of both but they don't easily sit in either and seem more like a faction mid way between the two. To be fair, I have felt like this regarding Beastmen since forever. In my mind, Skaven actually fits better into Chaos than Beastmen does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 rats . . .. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, Solaris said: To be fair, I have felt like this regarding Beastmen since forever. In my mind, Skaven actually fits better into Chaos than Beastmen does. Agreed, I think above all the GHR represents the status of the Race itself. The GHR is a Chaos God but not accepted, he strives to be the most powerful god but is not strong enough for a direct confrontation. So he plots and backstabs and throws thousands of Skaven into battle to become the most powerful god. So for me he is the embodiment of blind ambition without the strength or power to match. And that behaviour seeps down to the lowest levels of the Skaven race. So lot of ambition, a lot of frustration and everything is allowed to achieve his goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPT Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The GHR occupies the middle ground in the Nurgle-Tzeentch dichotomy, I think, combining elements of both but never reaching the extremes that make those two gods irreconcilable. It's like the Skaven represent the grubby reality of terrestrial life: they're not abstract psychic constructs in the Realm of Chaos, they're rats. Tzeentch represents pure hope, pure change - the GHR represents the flawed hopes of flawed creatures. Nurgle represents pure inertia, pure life - Skaven lives are gross and disease-ridden but also short and often inconsequential. It's been established that the Skaven can get into places that the other powers can't, and I suspect this is because the GHR is the god of not being a god. The rat-headed stepchild of the Chaos pantheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlack Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I would say definitely treachery. What I would like but is not necessarily the case would be also the results of treachery. So gaining power over others or failure too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 In all seriousness its difficult to pin. Its sated more directly in 40k and the old world but until prooven otherwise i think the same applies in AOS: The 4 chaos gods (original that is) represent facets of the main sentient emotions in the setting from the most prominant races in the setting (Humans, Dwarfs and Elves) while it can be assumed that any emotions that the skaven or any other race for that matter feel that fall inline with the gods nature will empower that particular god (Skaven kills something in a blood lust empowers khorne etc) They are a drop in the ocean compared to the combined psyche of the 3 "main" races responsible for the existence of the Dark gods. The great horned rat by comparision isent a dark reflection of Humans, Elves and Dwarfs but was given form (Or perhaps independence) by an entirely seperate race and instead emboided their entire psyche and not just a part of it. Its only since Skaven became so numerous and powerful (And Slaanash disappeared) that the horned rat "worship power" rivled that of the other 4. It dosent mean that he is empowered by a particular emotion or is even the narrow minded being that the chos gods are (Yes even tzeentch is narrow minded in his own way). So in conclusion i belive the great horned rat represents . . .Skaven. Everything that a skaven is he represents.Deciet, Cowerdice, cunning, etc. The other gods my gain some power from this charactersitcs in some form but ultimately the great horned rat gets his power from his chosen race and them alone as far as i can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb Daark Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 he's just a squatter, filling the space while the vacant landlord is nowhere to be found, lets face it the only reason he won his place a the table ws because one of the chairs was empty. So I'd agree with @KHHaunts where he isn't a chaos god in the truest sense of the word, or at least not a major power which embodies a dark embodiment of facets of a living being's psyche. As for beastmen, I think they were lost the minute it all went PC and they became their own race per se. I think they make more sense as they did originally in slaves to darkness days. I still think they should be able to carry a mark if they choose to, but with tzaangors out I fully expect them to be re-written into the new lore and in truth am quite looking forward to see how they're dealt with - because lets face it at the moment they're just chaos cannon fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 But i would say that skaven, or GHR is certainly reflected in a lot of other races: elves, dwarves (maybe not as much) and especially humans. he is, and his race is the true masters of treachery, deceit, greed and lies. probably the most stealthy race of them all aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 18 hours ago, Dez said: Skaven are better at it haha true that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eocosa Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I always views the Great Horned Rat, and Skaven in general as the most "pure" representation of the "evilness" of humanity, ramped up to 100. While all the other gods can be representative of things that can be evil, they inherently aren't always. Death and decay brings forth new life; change can be for the better or the worse (as well as magic); fighting can be straight murder yet without society (and even with it sometimes) we have to fight simply for survival; excess and pleasure can of course be very bad, but without pleasure there's is not much joy. Skaven, however, are purely selfish, greedy, deceitful. They covet something "green" (warpstone... like many humans do money), and would stab ANYONE in the back for some. They innovate without restraint and develop wilder and wilder weapons. They have no qualms breeding things into monsters. They can become fanatical to the point of blind religious furry. Obviously they assassinate and kill each other as well. Skaven have a "council" based system of government (at least on the old world), that would manipulate each other and do anything to get the slightest edge on one another regardless of how many "lessers" were killed. Of course there are many more examples of our likeness to them which, to me, the Great Horned Rat represents and is symbolic of, the very vileness in the human soul we have to contend with FAR more often then rage or excess. They ARE us if we simply allowed human nature to take over without morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 22 hours ago, Eocosa said: I always views the Great Horned Rat, and Skaven in general as the most "pure" representation of the "evilness" of humanity, ramped up to 100. While all the other gods can be representative of things that can be evil, they inherently aren't always. Death and decay brings forth new life; change can be for the better or the worse (as well as magic); fighting can be straight murder yet without society (and even with it sometimes) we have to fight simply for survival; excess and pleasure can of course be very bad, but without pleasure there's is not much joy. Skaven, however, are purely selfish, greedy, deceitful. They covet something "green" (warpstone... like many humans do money), and would stab ANYONE in the back for some. They innovate without restraint and develop wilder and wilder weapons. They have no qualms breeding things into monsters. They can become fanatical to the point of blind religious furry. Obviously they assassinate and kill each other as well. Skaven have a "council" based system of government (at least on the old world), that would manipulate each other and do anything to get the slightest edge on one another regardless of how many "lessers" were killed. Of course there are many more examples of our likeness to them which, to me, the Great Horned Rat represents and is symbolic of, the very vileness in the human soul we have to contend with FAR more often then rage or excess. They ARE us if we simply allowed human nature to take over without morality. Completely agree with this! And this is so cool, another genius strole from GW. They truly are a reflection of us simple humans, and their society is reflected aswell in some ammount to that of our own. Capitalism, corruption, scheemes and plans to get the upper hand, truly reminds me of out modern politicians, wich i find both scary yet fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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