Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Killax]

@Mikeymajq hey! I think the list looks like a ton of fun but Id love to know if you want to spice up the list or just want to use it for casual games  If the latter is the case, leave it as is, you'll have a blast. Otherwise I'd consider dropping the Bloodcrushers for double Bloodstoker (this way Skarbrand goes fast).

I think that if you love Gore Pilgrims/Slaughterpriest it's the best way to go with that Battalion. At the same time if you want to swarm opponents with Bloodletters obviously Murderhost is essential  Having said that, for Skarbrand in particular you'll like that additional range on the Bloodsecrator! So go Gore Pilgrims for that.

The Bloodsecrator's effect indeed allows you to ignore Morale tests for Bloodletters. Mind you you can make them but the result of a 'failure' will lead to more models being lost. So yeah if anything it's a bit of anti-synergy there but at the same time you add attacks to Bloodletters so all is good. 

As Bloodletters can have two banners I never see a reason to not include both  This way you release the effects of the both of them when a Bloodsecrator goes down. Which is something cunning opponents will aim for.

[Mikeymajq]

It's for fun, but it could use some fine tuning. ^^

Probably gonna make room for another 10 blood warriors down the road. I definitely want a blood stoker and maybe a third slaughterpriest. 

In todays game Skarbrand dropped dead pretty fast due to mortal wounds and the paladins that excel against monsters (glaives anf starmaces...).

But we rolled his attacks to see what he could do and he would have wiped out that unit with Carnage alone. :0

He definitely could have used a screen and something puttingpreassure elswhere and distract a bit from him

[MunchkinX2000]

19 hours ago, Killax said:

The Bloodsecrator's effect indeed allows you to ignore Morale tests for Bloodletters. Mind you you can make them but the result of a 'failure' will lead to more models being lost. So yeah if anything it's a bit of anti-synergy there but at the same time you add attacks to Bloodletters so all is good. 
 

I dont think you get to choose to take the battleshock anymore with the FAQ:

Page 137 – Bloodsecrator, Portal of Skulls, Rage 
of Khorne
Change to:
‘Rage of Khorne: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic for 
melee weapons used by friendly Khorne units while 
they are within 18" of any models with this ability. In 
addition, do not take battleshock tests for friendly 
Khorne units while they are within 18" of any models 
with this ability.’

[Killax]

2 hours ago, MunchkinX2000 said:

I dont think you get to choose to take the battleshock anymore with the FAQ:

Page 137 – Bloodsecrator, Portal of Skulls, Rage 
of Khorne
Change to:
‘Rage of Khorne: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic for 
melee weapons used by friendly Khorne units while 
they are within 18" of any models with this ability. In 
addition, do not take battleshock tests for friendly 
Khorne units while they are within 18" of any models 
with this ability.’

Hey thanks for the heads up! In that case the awnser is indeed a no. Then again, I will say I usually didn't unless the Bloodsecrator was dead anyway.

Changes to make Bloodletters return are slim as is but their output remains massive anyway as long as a Bloodsecrator sticks. 

15 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

It's for fun, but it could use some fine tuning. ^^

Probably gonna make room for another 10 blood warriors down the road. I definitely want a blood stoker and maybe a third slaughterpriest. 

In todays game Skarbrand dropped dead pretty fast due to mortal wounds and the paladins that excel against monsters (glaives anf starmaces...).

But we rolled his attacks to see what he could do and he would have wiped out that unit with Carnage alone. :0

He definitely could have used a screen and something puttingpreassure elswhere and distract a bit from him

The new plans all sound great.

Yeah one of the issues with Skarbrand is the massive target on it's head and the wound/save profile of a regular Bloodthirster. It's not a massive issue offcourse but it also means he isn't immortal  

In terms of screening you might want to consider some Fleshhounds, Marauder Horsemen or Warhounds. These all have some pro's and cons.
If you really want to ensure his arrival a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster general and Bloodstoker can secure that too  

[Drheroism]

@Render - Just order

[Fireymonkeyboy]

 

Hey,

Can we get a conversation going about bloodreavers?  I've run the starter unit of 20 since I started my army, primarily because of their flexibility.  They're cheap bodies for objective holding, do decently as a tarpit (if you can make them immune to BS), and with bloodsecrator support, throw out a metric crapton of attacks.  What's not to like, amirite?

Except they, probably more than any other unit we've got, depend on buff support, particularly the bloodsecrator.  Lose him, and the utility of the 'reavers plummets immediately.  I like the models, I REALLY want to run a big unit with the -1 rend axe, and I really like the idea of multiple big units.  I even like painting them.  I'm leery of running an army built around them when the loss of a single support piece has such a huge impact on unit effectiveness.

Any experiences / thoughts on this?

FMB

[NemoVonUtopia]

I have not had many problems protecting my bloodsecrator since I mostly play against destruction or death armies and the times I have played against more ranged armies I have been able to hide him in terrain.

Large numbers of Bloodreavers have been useful to take up space to block special deployment which helps keep enemies far from the bloodsecrator. Also I have used the dark feast battalion for yet another attack and a backup battleshock immunity though it is still dependent on support characters. Gore pilgrims also is useful to make it easier to hide the bloodsecrator and spread out.

I only have 60 bloodreavers so when I take all of them in a 2000 point list it's not even 25% of my army. Even 120 bloodreavers is still less than 1000 points so there is plenty of point for other threats or support like a warshrine. 

I have also found min size units to be useful for screening and dieing for blood tithes or for my Brass stampede.

[Roark]

I use Bloodreavers in pretty much every list, whether it's 10, 20 or 40. I often use them to wrap the Bloodsecrator himself in deployment, to protect from Turn 1 charges, Seraphon toad-bombs and other weird shenanigans. They are frequently also important late game (or home territory) objective-grabbers for me. If I have an Aspiring Deathbringer and some Blood Tithe, though, I will happily go on the offensive with their effective Movement of 9-10 after Stoking.

In my experience, people find a unit of 40 very attractive to shoot at with lots of rubbish/battleline missile troops, and that's really quite fine by me. Better than actively coming after my support characters.

They are totally disposable to me, but always useful in some way.

It was very cool to note that a guy at CanCon used them in completely different way though: he slapped 3 Bronzed Flesh and a mystic shield on 20 and used them as a cheap but nigh impenetrable anvil! 

[Roark]

7 hours ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

Also I have used the dark feast battalion for yet another attack and a backup battleshock immunity though it is still dependent on support characters.

Just doublechecking you're aware that Dark Feast adds an attack every single time they are selected to attack, right? So the third time you attack with a unit they will be at +3 attacks...

[jazman84]

Consider a Warshrine to follow them around.

[NemoVonUtopia]

2 hours ago, Roark said:

Just doublechecking you're aware that Dark Feast adds an attack every single time they are selected to attack, right? So the third time you attack with a unit they will be at +3 attacks...

No I did not think of it that way, I don't know if I agree but I cannot argue against it. I also just noticed that it affects the slaughterpriest and blood stoker too so I need to work on my reading comprehension.

[Roark]

It's a 200pt battalion that hinges on a very fragile dude. I don't even think it's OP. But to me, the wording is very clear: when you select them to attack, you increase their characteristic by 1 (as long as the key character is alive).

[Roark]

The Bloodreavers themselves are also very fragile. Hence, it will be very rare that they get beyond +4 attacks, and that may only be with a handful of guys. Too often, I imagine they are vaporised in the role of frontline assaulters.

[FPC]

4 hours ago, Roark said:

Just doublechecking you're aware that Dark Feast adds an attack every single time they are selected to attack, right? So the third time you attack with a unit they will be at +3 attacks...

Woah. Wait. Really? Is this confirmed anywhere? Seems way too good to be true.

[Roark]

I don't think there's any ambiguity whatsoever mate. Look at how it's phrased. And then look at how any other BoK attack buff is phrased.

But, again, I don't think it's OP. I mean, these are 6+ save Battleline units we're talking about (plus two of our less choppy heroes). And it all goes kaput once the Priest dies.

200pts is almost 30 more dudes...

...but I think it makes Dark Feast worth another look for predominantly Mortals players. 

[Mikeymajq]

I've never thought of it as a permanent buff that adds up. But that certainly makes it more interesting.

Worth to note that it didn't used to be 200 pts, it got bumped up to that when everey battalion got hit with the pts hike.

I also just run the 20 startervox reavers, but usually with meatripper axes. They do ok as backliners near the bloodsecrator. Mainly I just take them for the gore pilgrim battalion tax. But against deep striking its nive to have my back covered so to speak.  Opponents usually shy away from hitting them with mortal wounds too because it's so inefficient a target compared to the rest of the army.

[kozokus]

10 hours ago, Roark said:

Just doublechecking you're aware that Dark Feast adds an attack every single time they are selected to attack, right? So the third time you attack with a unit they will be at +3 attacks...

I....completly missed that point. 

Yet i think the rule-writer also missed that point as it poses a bunch of other questions, like : if the priest dies, do you loose all acumulated bonus attacks or simply the ability to gain another one (and you keep what you already gained).

It also implies you have a way to track the number of times you gained an attack, something the conceptors usually gives a word about (Reapers)

It falls again in the grey-zone of the rules of AOS we all know too well (Hello Khul/Goretide). I think it was intended to only gain an attack as long the Spriest is alive.

[Roark]

9 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Yet i think the rule-writer also missed that point as it poses a bunch of other questions, like : if the priest dies, do you loose all acumulated bonus attacks or simply the ability to gain another one (and you keep what you already gained).

It also implies you have a way to track the number of times you gained an attack, something the conceptors usually gives a word about (Reapers)

It falls again in the grey-zone of the rules of AOS we all know too well (Hello Khul/Goretide). I think it was intended to only gain an attack as long the Spriest is alive.

By para:

1. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's an oversight, however as it's currently written, I don't think it's unclear or grey at all. The priest's status (alive/dead) relates to the addition to the  Attacks characteristic. The Attacks characteristic changes.

2. Pretty straightforward. You just add a token or marker or Ben Curry combat die when they are selected to attack. It's not the same as the Skullreapers, whose bonuses depend on their current unit size (hence the need for a total tally).

3. I disagree that it's grey (rules as written), but I do agree that it may have not been intended thus. Because, let's face it, the majority of battalions are expensive AND mediocre.

Having said all that, I'm not so certain that it's really THAT overpowered or abusive, even with 240 Bloodreavers. I mean 3 Letterbombs + Crimson Crown + Killing Frenzy is probably still nastier...

[Roark]

NB: I've never once used Dark Feast haha...

[ledha]

I think it's just +1 attack when you attack with them. Nothing say it's cumulative

[kozokus]

12 minutes ago, Roark said:

It's not the same as the Skullreapers, whose bonuses depend on their current unit size (hence the need for a total tally).

I was refering to the fact that they usually explicitly tell us to keep a track of a number of #event# when needed, and that for the DarkFeast it was not the case.

Yet RAW it seems to work the way you says it.  However, it is unlikely to have any impact indeed.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

19 hours ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

 

Hey,

Can we get a conversation going about bloodreavers?  I've run the starter unit of 20 since I started my army, primarily because of their flexibility.  They're cheap bodies for objective holding, do decently as a tarpit (if you can make them immune to BS), and with bloodsecrator support, throw out a metric crapton of attacks.  What's not to like, amirite?

Except they, probably more than any other unit we've got, depend on buff support, particularly the bloodsecrator.  Lose him, and the utility of the 'reavers plummets immediately.  I like the models, I REALLY want to run a big unit with the -1 rend axe, and I really like the idea of multiple big units.  I even like painting them.  I'm leery of running an army built around them when the loss of a single support piece has such a huge impact on unit effectiveness.

Any experiences / thoughts on this?

FMB

Before BoK came out I was running 3 x 40 reavers in the  bloodmarked warband.

If your gonna do it, go all in. 

Just some thoughts:

You still need some disposable single units as a chaff screen.

2 x bloodstokers minimum, not so much because they aren't fast (for foot sloggers), but if your going to charge, you need to be getting everyone possible into combat and 'just made it' is a country mile away from completely mobbing them with bodies.

Aspiring db as general for the extra attack command ability. Probably the only time I would entertain the idea of including one.

Banner is the weakpoint. Probably need two. Hide them in each board corner.

LoKoJ to drop a bloodtithe point on +1 to wound when you charge and this would mean you defo need chaff to have more control who gets the charge off. Asp db as general instead of LoKoJ as the command ability can be used every turn, not just on a charge.

Perhaps a warshrine too. It could be the mobile centre of the troops for your totem bonus then you can venture to 18 away from the bloodsecrators. You'll probably be thankful of not having to tail back that extra 6 inches when the casualties start pouring in.  

Work to a minimal drop list. 2 battallions maybe. You will always want first turn against a shooty list. The last thing you need is losing a full unit to battleshock because you've taken 20 wounds in turn 1.

If you took a skullgrinder, he actually killed someone and his ability went off within range- that would be sick. Dice! Pools and pools of dice!

Agree with the dark feast being cumulative per combat, but if I was taking it to a tournament I would check with the TO beforehand. 

Totally worth saving up to burn 7 bloodtithe points and get the extra pile in on casualty removal. 

 

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

100 bloodmarked wb

240 40 x reaver horde

240 40 x reaver horde

240 40 x reaver horde

240 40 x reaver horde

70 reaver meatshield

70 reaver meatshield

80 stoker

80 stoker

120 banner

120 banner

140 lokoj

80 asp db (cheapo one that gets a save bonus, not the pilein one)

180 chaos warshrine

2k!

Not very minimal drop. Need to pick who for the  8 units + 1 hero who are in the battallion and which artifacts / command trait and a prayer for the shrine

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Read this: 

 

Then again but with an event as the trigger

 

Then understand that a megaboss gets an extra wound & attack for every kill: 

...

Disclaimer: Also have never run a dark feast

[Killax]

22 hours ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

Hey,

Can we get a conversation going about bloodreavers?  I've run the starter unit of 20 since I started my army, primarily because of their flexibility.  They're cheap bodies for objective holding, do decently as a tarpit (if you can make them immune to BS), and with bloodsecrator support, throw out a metric crapton of attacks.  What's not to like, amirite?

Except they, probably more than any other unit we've got, depend on buff support, particularly the bloodsecrator.  Lose him, and the utility of the 'reavers plummets immediately.  I like the models, I REALLY want to run a big unit with the -1 rend axe, and I really like the idea of multiple big units.  I even like painting them.  I'm leery of running an army built around them when the loss of a single support piece has such a huge impact on unit effectiveness.

Any experiences / thoughts on this?

FMB

Cool subject for sure, it has been 70 pages since the last talk about Bloodreavers but certainly give them a go if you like the models, want to stay mono Bloodbound or generally want to go for massive numbers. What's not to like is quite simple, their save and their 32mm bases  I'd love them as 25mm models and think GW might have decided on that 32mm for them a little to quick but otherwise they are certainly a cool choice!

As has been mentioned, my experience with the one blob of 40 I've got has been that it worked out but the massive unit is cumbersome. The 20 split works out well also but everytime I thake it I miss my Bloodletters basically. Having said that, they are still not a bad choice at all offcourse.

Where I think I will like them the most is:
- Gore Pilgrims, with Warshrine so you don't just fill the basic inclusion for them but really do something. 20 + Warshrine is a strong choice and can still do things provided it's left alone, but likely will be because there are other key targets.
- Bloodmarked Warband, a nice bonus for duplicates of 8 and 8x5 is 40 which makes that one block of Bloodreavers really good simply said. It's also here where mono Bloodbound gets rewarded the most and double Bloodsecrators remain a really good consideration.

Pro:
+ Bloodreavers have a ton of -1 Rend attacks
+ They are cheap and have massive numbers
Con: 
- They die really easily with a 6+ save, which used to be a norm but now by comparison Skeletons from Legions of Nagash easily win from them and so does pretty much anything with a Shooting attack
- That 32mm base just really hurts them. They have the attack quantity but there are so many attacks 'wasted' because of their weapon range and that base size

They are a worthy consideration though if you simply said really want them. Though there is nothing in particular that makes them function better as other choices really... Even Marauders have the save advantage and 25mm bases just work slighty better for them too in terms of being able to place the horde (40) how you want to.

13 hours ago, Roark said:

Just doublechecking you're aware that Dark Feast adds an attack every single time they are selected to attack, right? So the third time you attack with a unit they will be at +3 attacks...

I suppose... But as mentioned it doesn't really say it stacks. Good one to ask for the Age of Sigmar FAQ team. Did anyone do that allready? 

3 hours ago, Roark said:

I don't think there's any ambiguity whatsoever mate. Look at how it's phrased. And then look at how any other BoK attack buff is phrased. But, again, I don't think it's OP. I mean, these are 6+ save Battleline units we're talking about (plus two of our less choppy heroes). And it all goes kaput once the Priest dies. 200pts is almost 30 more dudes... but I think it makes Dark Feast worth another look for predominantly Mortals players. 

Good point for sure, but as has been said we don't really know how it works out and if it remains. 

The prime reason why I really don't medle with unclear writing is because several things have been FAQ'ed now that worked differently before and the clearity of AoS isn't really getting that much better despite the FAQ's  

58 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

2k!

Not very minimal drop. Need to pick who for the  8 units + 1 hero who are in the battallion and which artifacts / command trait and a prayer for the shrine

If you have the will to paint 180 Bloodreavers, go for it!  

Back in 2015 when Khorne was still a really relevant competitive army quite a lot of lists looked like that and had a really beyond decent tournament showing. The difference between now and then offcourse is the non-stackable Bloodsecrator effect. 

As a result of mixed competitive armies now too I still think that going heavy on the Bloodletters is easier to do for the hobby aspect and at least against Stormcasts much better rewarded.

Cheers!