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What sort of content would you like to see to make the hobby more positive?


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Hello! 
 

I will preface this thread by apologising if it isn’t allowed, however I have recently started a channel dedicated to promoting positivity and mental health awareness through the hobby. I wanted to gather feedback and thoughts from the community about what would make the hobby even better for all people! 
 

I believe warhammer can be an amazing tool to help people who may be experiencing personal challenges mentally as there are so many immersive worlds to explore and different parts of the hobby exercise different areas of the brain.
 

Topics that I am already working on are hobby burnout, personal expectations when painting/comparing your work to others, general healthy practices within the hobby, and some easy to use painting guides.

So, what aspects of the hobby do you think needs more positivity and awareness? I know the hobby can already be really positive, and the purpose of this is to bolster that side and create a space where everyone feels included. There are so many people out there who shine a light on the negatives of the hobby, whilst acknowledging those negatives, I wish to create something that focuses on those positives. 
 

Thank you!!

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What a great idea. There are so many wonderful things about this hobby. 

Speaking personally, converting and painting models is how I recharge my batteries. Me time, when I can switch off from the world and relax. It’s cathartic and there’s definitely an element of escapism to it — again, just speaking to my experiences. But for a few hours a week I get to close the door, put on a film or some music, and escape to Fantasy land. 

I’m also aware the other side of the hobby — gaming, tournaments, having a battle against friends — helps other people who recharge socially. I’d imagine there’s a topic or story there around the coming together/community aspect.   

Some of my first memories are of painting figures with my dad back in the early/mid-90s. So there’s something there too, I think. The hobby brings back happy memories. It connects me to my childhood and my family. I have a lot of nostalgia and fondness for it.

I’m also a storyteller by trade. Warhammer was my gateway to that. The lore, the background, the characters — it fired my imagination like nothing else (and still does today). I can’t imagine where I’d be or what I’d be up to without this positive influence in my life, but I really has shaped me, the life I’ve led, and the person I’ve gone on to become.

There’s maybe something to be said about the feeing of accomplishment when a model is finished or a paint job completed. That little boost can do wonders. When you’re happy with what you’ve produced, it’s a great feeling.

Then there’s the online side of it. As I say, I’m mostly a painter/modeller and rarely game so I don’t really have that face-to-face, in-person community around me. (And for hermits like me, that suits me just fine.) But it doesn’t mean I want to enjoy the hobby alone. I love being able to share my successes, however small, with other people online in spaces like TGA and on Insta. Share my painting, my ideas, my stories. And be inspired by all those things other people share with me. 

There’s no escaping the negativity that invariably seeps into online places but mostly I’ve felt very welcomed and included and for someone like me, who often feels anxious, judged, and self-conscious when out and about in the real world, that means t everything because there’s a whole other world here where I feel accepted and happy. 

Hopefully some of that was helpful!

T

 

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I'd appreciate seeing more examples of 'regular' painting of models. My painting skills are a way below average and while I enjoy painting I often feel intimidated when the only painted models I see online are excellently done.

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This sounds like a really nice idea. If you post your channel later I will give you a sub.

A few thoughts from my side:

29 minutes ago, SirSalabean said:

personal expectations when painting/comparing your work to others

One other thing that I find important when it comes to painting: Shifting your perspective from painting being a chore you need to get through in order to get to the fun part of the game to painting being a fun thing to do in its own right. I think that for almost everyone, starting to paint models is kind of uncomfortable, because in the beginning you will not be very good at it and it will feel exhausting and difficult (especially if you have nobody to show you the basics). But I think a lot of people could derive fun from painting if they opened up to the idea that of it rather than trying to minimize it out of their way of engaging with the hobby.

 

35 minutes ago, SirSalabean said:

general healthy practices within the hobby

I think discussion of the dynamics of the pile of shame are a topic that goes here. In my own experience, there is nothing wrong with buying models you are excited about but only painting and using them a years later. However, I think when buying models becomes a replacement for actually doing the kind of hobby stuff that appealed to you in the first place it can be a problematic habit. I think it's also worth talking about how a huge backlog can actually be a mental burden to get started with hobbying at all, because the task seems so much more daunting.

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Thank you so much everyone for your comments they are so helpful and will help me moving forward! 
 

I am more than happy to link the channel, it is call Mind and Minis and the link is here:

https://youtube.com/@mindandminis
 

Im happy to take it down if mods deem it against the rules. 
 

My aim to begin with will be to focus on the building/painting/lore parts of the hobby, I dont feel like I know enough about the gaming side to comment on it but once ive learnt more I will definitely do more on it to promote the benefits it has for more socially active people, its also incredibly academic on the brain which is great for people driven that way.

 

I have been really inspired to tackle traditions and views in the hobby that make it hard for some people too, as mentioned piles of shame while potentially fine can definitely make the hobby overwhelming and turns the hobby into buying models not painting or playing with them, it’s unfortunately something thats really embedded and almost celebrated. I will definitely be doing really basic and easy to follow painting guides using tools and techniques accessible to most. My eyesight and hand steadiness are not the best and it took me a long time to be happy with what I achieve. 
 

I really hope the channel is beneficial to you folk, it’s something im really passionate about and want to help people like me enjoy it more! 

 

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I think this sounds wonderful and if you need any assistance please feel free to ask.

Hobby tips focused on people with budget concerns could be a step towards inclusivity. 
How to plays are actually oddly uncommon and a great way to help open the hobby to new players.
Discussions on accessibility in the hobby are worth exploring, as I have not seen this aspect of the hobby addressed that often.
I think that giving community spotlights that aren't focused on Golden Demon level pieces is always really appreciated by people that want to showcase their work.
Enthusiasm and encouragement and ground opinion in a subjective manner. 

As with the game itself have fun and remember to be careful of your own mental health taking breaks when necessary. 

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4 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Endurance awards--one random person who finishes all their games in an event gets a prize, just for making the effort to show up and participate. It sends a message that everyone is valued, regardless of their capacity to win.

Thats such an amazing idea! It would be a good video topic for how tabletop gaming could be more inclusive! 
 

On 5/26/2023 at 1:16 AM, Neverchosen said:

I think this sounds wonderful and if you need any assistance please feel free to ask.

Hobby tips focused on people with budget concerns could be a step towards inclusivity. 
How to plays are actually oddly uncommon and a great way to help open the hobby to new players.
Discussions on accessibility in the hobby are worth exploring, as I have not seen this aspect of the hobby addressed that often.
I think that giving community spotlights that aren't focused on Golden Demon level pieces is always really appreciated by people that want to showcase their work.
Enthusiasm and encouragement and ground opinion in a subjective manner. 

As with the game itself have fun and remember to be careful of your own mental health taking breaks when necessary. 

Thank you so much! My next video is on pile of shames which Im planning to have done this thursday. Ive got so many ideas though such as easy tutorials, covering different methods, promoting inclusivity of all painting styles and levels. I need to learn the games properly but once I do ill be doing easy to follow how to plays. 
 

I would love to do either streams or videos where people submit photos of their current projects and their concerns and I help them with encouraging and spotlighting work that isnt that professional standard. Just this week I have seen so many people getting overwhelmed and stressed with their work as its not that professional level and alot of people limit themselves to traditional base, shade, edge highlights etc which are great but if you have bade eyes or unsteady hands or even just a lack of time its really challenging. 

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(Very) IMO the biggest part of being inclusive is simply.... not being exclusive. There's promoting inclusiveness in a healthy manner and doing so in a manner that kills the point, where  'excluded' people become demographics which are pandered to. It's a tricky thing to manage but the only way to really fail is to stop listening.

As for paint, I always tell newcomers it is about 'cheating'. We painters use all sorts of special paints, techniques, etc to make it look like we painted details we didn't. A shade, for example, makes it *look* like we painted this nice gradient shadow effect into all the recesses but really it was just one thick coat!

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I think videos on being able to deal with FOMO, which is hard for a lot of people, would be a good thing for the hobby. 
 

Also, a topic about “mediocre” painting would be a good subject. I feel like we have too many of these high end painters, which are incredible painters, but the rest of us will never get to that point. I recently struggle with some mental dilemmas that were self imposed where I would have to paint to the absolutely best quality I could and if I didn’t it was stressful. In some regards, some of the high end content creators have damaged the hobby to an extent. 
 

I recently saw a comment where someone was complaining about someone painted job where it was a base coat and wash model that was part of a regiment, and the commenter was stating that it was not a finished models. That definitely made my brain hurt lol, no one can dictate what or how you should paint besides yourself. 

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9 minutes ago, Tervindar said:

I think videos on being able to deal with FOMO, which is hard for a lot of people, would be a good thing for the hobby. 
 

Also, a topic about “mediocre” painting would be a good subject. I feel like we have too many of these high end painters, which are incredible painters, but the rest of us will never get to that point. I recently struggle with some mental dilemmas that were self imposed where I would have to paint to the absolutely best quality I could and if I didn’t it was stressful. In some regards, some of the high end content creators have damaged the hobby to an extent. 
 

I recently saw a comment where someone was complaining about someone painted job where it was a base coat and wash model that was part of a regiment, and the commenter was stating that it was not a finished models. That definitely made my brain hurt lol, no one can dictate what or how you should paint besides yourself. 

I 100% agree. Fomo, piles of shame, painting standards are all big things I want to cover.

Like piles of shame seem to be celebrated? I remember getting into the hobby and people telling me until I have a pile of shame im not properly into the hobby, theres some awareness its bad but it can be so overwhelming for people if you buy an army all at once. Just letting people know that it can be overwhelming, the downsides and how to avoid/tackle them is a video I have in the works for Thursday.

 

Fomo links into it a bit as people buy stuff incase they might need it later on or something when its not something they would buy normally. I personally struggled in the past with it and just having more voice to say dont give in can help raise awareness.

 

“Mediocre” painting being treated as bad is something that I’ve witnessed so much even just in this past week of delving into the community and people reaching out to me. Not everyone has eyes of an eagle and pinpoint accuracy, alongside buckets of time. I think people can make incredible works of art in this hobby but art is so subjective I don’t think it helps when the standard is box art levels of quality which professionals paint as a full time job with years of skill, experience and natural ability. I think even calling it mediocre or battle ready can construct the idea that its less than when in reality thats up to each and every person to decide and if the painter is happy thats all that matters. Helping people remove those limits and encouraging people to try different techniques is definitely a focus for me. Someone might look at a contrast model or slapchop and think that looks really professional. 

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Personally: A focus on narrative play / casual play instead of competitive play

In my experience round about 50% of the competitive community / tournament community are toxic or simply unpleasant blokes. It’s been thrice already I’ve stopped playing AoS for months after having to play against such blokes. This is simply my experience and this might not be true for the big Events like LVO etc.

Edited by JackStreicher
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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

In my experience round about 50% of the competitive community / tournament community are toxic or simply unpleasant blokes.

Wow, that's sad :(

I have been lucky (or, I feel, closer to the average experience) and 90% of my dealings with competitive players were from OK to great, with the remaining 10% just on the cold/whiny spectrum and not on the toxic one.

Still I do agree with this

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

A focus on narrative play / casual play

 

Edited by Marcvs
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Given your channel a subscribe and look forward to seeing how it goes!

I think in terms of painting standards and such one thing I often find with models and such is in terms of the fact that there seems to be a lot of focus on having to constantly improve, and whilst it is great to learn ways to get better and to improve and such I think it's good to be mindful and accept when people are just happy as they are. It's a bit more a niche one and difficult for me to word but I think it links in a lot to the general need for the community to just be more accepting of non 'pro' paint jobs etc. 

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Personally: A focus on narrative play / casual play instead of competitive play

One of the most fun I have had with AoS recently has been me and some friends playing the cooperative white dwarf zombie horde defense mission from their last halloween white dwarf. It's players vs 'ai' in a similar way to zombicide and something we've tweaked the rules with a little bit to make it more fun but it's been a lot of fun just getting to roll dice and fight zombies with friends and as a very casual / narrative sort of game it's been great. Competitive play is great for those who enjoy it but it can bring out the worst in people sometimes and general focus and reminders that it is not the only way (or even the default way) to play would be appreciated.

 

Edit: On a side note I wonder if it might be cool to have a thread where people can write and share narrative / casual scenario rules etc.

Edited by Lightbox
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17 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

Given your channel a subscribe and look forward to seeing how it goes!

I think in terms of painting standards and such one thing I often find with models and such is in terms of the fact that there seems to be a lot of focus on having to constantly improve, and whilst it is great to learn ways to get better and to improve and such I think it's good to be mindful and accept when people are just happy as they are. It's a bit more a niche one and difficult for me to word but I think it links in a lot to the general need for the community to just be more accepting of non 'pro' paint jobs etc. 

 

 Thank you so much!! I really appreciate the support. Ive got a proper mic now so Im working on a few projects for the channel. 
 

Yeah I agree, theres been some good sentiments in general the past year or so with the painting phase and slap chop, but there is still alot of room for improvement. Theres so many pro painting channels too with all these super complex tutorials. It will be nice to just do things that the average person can easily get to grips with and feel accomplished even if its not the next golden daemon. Once there is a bigger audience I will look into do more requested tutorials and content too. Its exciting times. 

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I feel like the topic of realistic painting standards is pretty difficult. I know that a lot of people perceive painting as intimidating or a chore. But painting your own minis exactly as you like them is also a distinctive draw of Warhammer and other tabletop games. I suspect that a lot of people have a mixed relationship with the topic. I have certainly felt both joy, but also pressure and tedium when painting my minis. So I don't know if the message "You don't have to paint if you don't enjoy it" is the be-all, end-all when it comes to inclusivity.

I was thinking about points related to this topic and here are a few that came to mind:

  • Sharing pictures of painting mistakes on "well painted" models. I think one source of pressure that a lot of people face is their own perfectionism, the idea that if you don't paint every part of the model to your highest standard then there is no point of even starting. The fact that when painting, you look at a miniature much closer, much more intently and for much longer than anyone else ever will only contributes to this. However, I think in reality models can look absolutely fine when you put in a bit of effort in some important areas (faces, bases, banners, shields), and sketch out the rest of the mini pretty roughly. It might be interesting to collect some pictures of overall good looking miniatures coupled with close-ups of all the areas that look less than ideal if when you really look closely. Just to show that overall, with the eyes of an outside observer, you just don't notice that the boots look bad, that certain details are unpainted or that those pouches are just a base coat washed with Agrax. You only see a good looking model.

 

  • A thing that might put mini painting standards into perspective is looking at prepainted miniatures. For example, here's a prepainted DnD mini by Wizkids:
Spoiler

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1432/8830/products/elfsorcerer-3_1024x1024.jpg?v=1680254252

This is the standard that a big corporation can manage to make cost effective. I think that should give you some information about how much of a passion project mini painting for tabletop games really is and put peoples' skills into perspective in a positive way.

  • I also don't see a lot of people talk about the difference between miniatures in real life vs. in photographs. I often see the sentiment expressed that people are happy with their paintjobs until they take a picture and see all the imperfections. I think that goes back to the idea that what a camera "sees" is somehow a more objective representation of reality than what you see with your own eyes. But of course, that's not really the case. Both positively and negatively, a picture taken with a camera is different from what you see in reality. We know that when it comes to filters and influencers: Just because something looks good in a picture, it doesn't have to look as good in real life. But the opposite is also true: Just because your models don't look as good in your photos as on your table, that does not represent reality more accurately.
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19 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I feel like the topic of realistic painting standards is pretty difficult. I know that a lot of people perceive painting as intimidating or a chore. But painting your own minis exactly as you like them is also a distinctive draw of Warhammer and other tabletop games. I suspect that a lot of people have a mixed relationship with the topic. I have certainly felt both joy, but also pressure and tedium when painting my minis. So I don't know if the message "You don't have to paint if you don't enjoy it" is the be-all, end-all when it comes to inclusivity.

I was thinking about points related to this topic and here are a few that came to mind:

  • Sharing pictures of painting mistakes on "well painted" models. I think one source of pressure that a lot of people face is their own perfectionism, the idea that if you don't paint every part of the model to your highest standard then there is no point of even starting. The fact that when painting, you look at a miniature much closer, much more intently and for much longer than anyone else ever will only contributes to this. However, I think in reality models can look absolutely fine when you put in a bit of effort in some important areas (faces, bases, banners, shields), and sketch out the rest of the mini pretty roughly. It might be interesting to collect some pictures of overall good looking miniatures coupled with close-ups of all the areas that look less than ideal if when you really look closely. Just to show that overall, with the eyes of an outside observer, you just don't notice that the boots look bad, that certain details are unpainted or that those pouches are just a base coat washed with Agrax. You only see a good looking model.

 

  • A thing that might put mini painting standards into perspective is looking at prepainted miniatures. For example, here's a prepainted DnD mini by Wizkids:
  Hide contents

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1432/8830/products/elfsorcerer-3_1024x1024.jpg?v=1680254252

This is the standard that a big corporation can manage to make cost effective. I think that should give you some information about how much of a passion project mini painting for tabletop games really is and put peoples' skills into perspective in a positive way.

  • I also don't see a lot of people talk about the difference between miniatures in real life vs. in photographs. I often see the sentiment expressed that people are happy with their paintjobs until they take a picture and see all the imperfections. I think that goes back to the idea that what a camera "sees" is somehow a more objective representation of reality than what you see with your own eyes. But of course, that's not really the case. Both positively and negatively, a picture taken with a camera is different from what you see in reality. We know that when it comes to filters and influencers: Just because something looks good in a picture, it doesn't have to look as good in real life. But the opposite is also true: Just because your models don't look as good in your photos as on your table, that does not represent reality more accurately.

I agree, personally I have been supporting the idea of more inclusive painting standards as opposed to suggesting people shouldnt paint if they dont want to. Its more providing resources for people to learn different more accessible methods of painting, as well as building acceptance and compassion for different skill levels.

personally I suffer with bad eyesight and shakey hands so I often make little mistakes and avoid methods like edge highlights all together now. I spent years floating in and out of the hobby as it was frustrating. It took me a while to learn that exploring different methods and levels of painting is ok. 
 

It is interesting though as I believe ThePaintingPhase have covered that even professional GW painters make mistakes that are photoshopped after. 

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5 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

...like the entire Narrative section of the forum (which near everyone ignores -.-)?

Yes.... that very one that I was a total dummy and forgot about. In my defence I took a bit of a break from TGA 😅

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