AoS 3 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Satyrical Sophist]

Looking to play in a casual 1500 point tournament. I've got a lot to paint up before hand, figured I could use some advice for what to go for. I have a unit of blight kings, plague bearers and some plague drones mostly done. As for what is available, I have access to most plastic stuff, but not many duplicates, with the exception of waaay too many plaguebearers.

I think it's something like, GUO, Maggoth Lord, Glottkin, Nurglings, Rotbringer, foot lord that isn't in SC, Beast of Nurgle, SC daemons, SC maggotkin, all non special character heralds, lots of plaguebearers.

 

I'm looking to make a list that's gonna be fun for both players, and not too one dimensional. I keep looking at potential lists and it feels like the non big heroes aren't as worth it, but keep feeling like I'm low on units. What would people recommend?

Was thinking about something like this 

Leaders

Great Unclean One (495)

- Plague Flail & Massive Bilesword

Sloppity Bilepiper, Herald of Nurgle (130)

Battleline

10 x Plaguebearers (150)

5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)

10 x Plaguebearers (150)

Units

3 x Plague Drones (200)

3 x Nurglings (105)

Total: 1480 / 1500

Or perhaps something like this

Leaders

Bloab Rotspawned (300)

Lord of Afflictions (210)

Battleline

10 x Plaguebearers (150)

10 x Putrid Blightkings (500)

- Reinforced x 1

Units

3 x Plague Drones (200)

1 x Pusgoyle Blightlords - Single (110)

Total: 1470 / 1500

 

They both seem pretty low on model count though. Any thoughts?

[thetenyear]

Quote

I'm looking to make a list that's gonna be fun for both players, and not too one dimensional. I keep looking at potential lists and it feels like the non big heroes aren't as worth it, but keep feeling like I'm low on units.

You will always have a low model/unit count for Nurgle tbh, it's one of the difficulties playing the book. I like the second list more, the first list doesn't have as much of a focus as the second. Second one has a unit of PB's to hold the back objective and then you can split the remainder into 2 forces if you want, or have a flanking force with the LOA and drones in a smaller Battleplan. The key will be to play with the blightkings in the center most part of the map and deployed in a way that they aren't caught out off to one side isolated and useless for half the game.An example is tagging the outermost edge (in the direction of the center of the map) of an objective to capture it. 

The only change you might make to the second list is to take nurglings instead of the pusgoyle but that largely to taste, pusgoyle with be better in combat but not as good at generating those sweet summoning points. Also a consideration is if you only have 1 nurgling unit you might want to save that as a summoning option?

Unless you are running Pusgoyle or beast spam you won't have to worry about out classing opponents. And having more units that are 8" move will be funner for you to personally play I feel since having low movement on almost

everything can feel unnessecarily punishing at times and you will be forced to forfeit really early depending on certain situations.

[Satyrical Sophist]

13 hours ago, thetenyear said:

You will always have a low model/unit count for Nurgle tbh, it's one of the difficulties playing the book. I like the second list more, the first list doesn't have as much of a focus as the second. Second one has a unit of PB's to hold the back objective and then you can split the remainder into 2 forces if you want, or have a flanking force with the LOA and drones in a smaller Battleplan. The key will be to play with the blightkings in the center most part of the map and deployed in a way that they aren't caught out off to one side isolated and useless for half the game.An example is tagging the outermost edge (in the direction of the center of the map) of an objective to capture it. 

The only change you might make to the second list is to take nurglings instead of the pusgoyle but that largely to taste, pusgoyle with be better in combat but not as good at generating those sweet summoning points. Also a consideration is if you only have 1 nurgling unit you might want to save that as a summoning option?

Unless you are running Pusgoyle or beast spam you won't have to worry about out classing opponents. And having more units that are 8" move will be funner for you to personally play I feel since having low movement on almost

everything can feel unnessecarily punishing at times and you will be forced to forfeit really early depending on certain situations.

Thank you kindly for the reply. My main concern was doing something too sharky.

I've got two sets of Nurglings (I have two SC Nurgle daemons boxes, just assembled and painted most of one of them), so will take a look. 

Unfortunately real life got in the way, so not sure I'll be able to finish painting stuff by the deadline, might end up having to take my Beasts of Chaos instead. Definitely aiming to take Nurgle to a few game nights if I do end up missing the deadline though.

[Magnus The Blue]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:49 PM, thetenyear said:

Unless you are running Pusgoyle or beast spam you won't have to worry about out classing opponents. And having more units that are 8" move will be funner for you to personally play I feel since having low movement on almost

everything can feel unnessecarily punishing at times and you will be forced to forfeit really early depending on certain situations.

Completely disagree with this, I've found that unless you are careless with deployment and movement, almost all Nurgle units are strong: Heroes being the obvious exception where we have a few stinkers.  Drowned Men Blightlord spam and Befouling Host Beast of Nurgle spam are probably the strongest lists but there is a million ways to make a really strong Nurgle list right now.

[Magnus The Blue]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:43 AM, Satyrical Sophist said:

I'm looking to make a list that's gonna be fun for both players, and not too one dimensional. I keep looking at potential lists and it feels like the non big heroes aren't as worth it, but keep feeling like I'm low on units. What would people recommend?

.......

They both seem pretty low on model count though. Any thoughts?

One thing to note if trying to make a nurgle list that's not painfull to play against is try to limit the amount of different complex units you bring to the table.  Are allegience abilities are probably the most complex in the game and some of our units only make things worse (looking at you Epidemius) in terms of laying rules on rules.  No one likes sitting their having rules explained to them for half the game.  

With that in mind I'd probably go with list 1, mainly because Bloab is both under costed and adds tonnes of rules bloat to the game,  but also because daemon lists feel more enjoyable to play with against (unless they are Beast Spam or 40+ plague bearers). 

[Jazzbeaux]

So my purely speculative guessing on what the Rotmire Creed might be like. 

Assuming they are Maggotkin they will get Diseased and Disgustingly Resilient.  Looking at them, they are lightly armoured, but fleshy.  There are a couple of interesting weapons, including a syringe and blowpipes.

So perhaps move 5", faster than the rest of the Maggotkin, but slower than other Cultist groups.  Maybe 2 wounds each, but only a 6+ save with a 5++ from the Disgustingly Resilient.  4+ to hit, 4+ to wound seems standard.  A range 8" for blowpipes?  Maybe Mortal Wounds on a 6?  The syringe perhaps does D3 Mortals in melee, also on 6?  Then they can spread Disease Points like the rest of the Maggotkin.  Points?  90?  Current range for Cultists is between 70-110.

[Grimrock]

@Jazzbeaux 90 points for that would be crazy. You've basically created a unit that's just as resilient as plaguebearers with the addition of ranged attacks and mortal wounds. If the rules you suggested were accurate then I'd expect 160 minimum. 

You have to keep in mind that 95% of cultist units are total trash tier rules, so unless gw does a total change of course with this edition you should temper your expectations. Typically they're cheap bodies with no offensive power whatsoever that have one small gimmick. They'll almost certainly have one wound each and 1 attack at 4+/4+. Their gimmick could be the Maggotkin keyword for disgustingly resilient and disease, but then absolutely no mortals and probably a premium cost like 120. It could be mortals from the blowpipes, but the they definitely wouldn't have the Maggotkin keyword. 

Edit: thinking about it my guess is their gimmick will be wounding on 3s due to poison. I think they'll be 1 wound, 5+ save, speed 6 1 attack at 4+/3+ and one blowpipe attack each at 4+/3+.  One mortal on a 6 to wound for the leader in melee. No Maggotkin keyword, just Nurgle. Probably... 75 points. Still possibly useful in the army as cheap backfield chaff, but that's about it. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Grimrock

[Jazzbeaux]

That’s fair, I just chucked down some thoughts.  Would be a shame not to have Maggotkin, but does bring quite a lot.  Will have to see.

[Lightbox]

Does anyone know the height of pusgoyle blightlords? I was wanting to convert some bretonnian pegasus knights I have for a more rotting knight look but want to know how much scenery I'll need them on to match the height well enough.

Also are tamurkhans horde units / subfaction ever worth running for casual fun/ptg as I can imagine they could be fairly fun for making unit conversion or are all the units / subfaction rules for it just too bad?

Edited August 17, 2022 by Lightbox

[plavski]

Rotmire Creed:

M5, S5+, B6, W1

10 Models

Leader gets 2 wounds

Two weapon profiles:

Range 14", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Melee 1", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Special ability

Virulent Concoctions
If the unit is included in a Maggotkin of Nurgle army, each time a disease point is given to an enemy unit from an attack or ability by this unit, each other enemy unit within 3" of that enemy unit is also given 1 disease point.

125 points

Edited August 17, 2022 by plavski

[Lightbox]

32 minutes ago, plavski said:

Rotmire Creed:

M5, S5+, B6, W1

10 Models

Leader gets 2 wounds

Two weapon profiles:

Range 14", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Melee 1", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Special ability

Virulent Concoctions
If the unit is included in a Maggotkin of Nurgle army, each time a disease point is given to an enemy unit from an attack or ability by this unit, each other enemy unit within 3" of that enemy unit is also given 1 disease point.

125 points

They seem quite decent as a shooting unit. 2 shots each at 14" is great for chaos, and maggotkin will love fishing for disease with them. I doubt the disease within 3" will come up much but its nice to have especially when they're only 125 points.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 hour ago, plavski said:

Rotmire Creed:

M5, S5+, B6, W1

10 Models

Leader gets 2 wounds

Two weapon profiles:

Range 14", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Melee 1", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Special ability

Virulent Concoctions
If the unit is included in a Maggotkin of Nurgle army, each time a disease point is given to an enemy unit from an attack or ability by this unit, each other enemy unit within 3" of that enemy unit is also given 1 disease point.

125 points

I think they are just great.  Cheap and effective shooting, not fragile (for us) and even battleline for Blessed Sons (who's ability triggers Virulent Concoctions.  Long range threat is so hard for us to get.

The Concoctions is what has me most excited as it's a strong counter play to castling up with multiple heros and buff-hammer generally, which is very popular right now.  Spume and 20-30 of these guys will be a serious first turn threat which can't be ignored.  3 of them0 shoot will max out desease (possibly on multiple units) and generate 18ish saves, from shooting alone. Same again in combat.

[spenson]

2 hours ago, plavski said:

Rotmire Creed:

M5, S5+, B6, W1

10 Models

Leader gets 2 wounds

Two weapon profiles:

Range 14", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Melee 1", A2, H4+, W3+, no rend, D1

Special ability

Virulent Concoctions
If the unit is included in a Maggotkin of Nurgle army, each time a disease point is given to an enemy unit from an attack or ability by this unit, each other enemy unit within 3" of that enemy unit is also given 1 disease point.

125 points

RAW they're currently one of the strongest unit in the game but it's obvious that RAI they don't intend for the Virulent Concoctions ability to be able to trigger itself. Basically currently RAW if you put even 1 disease token on a tightly packed army then all the units will get 7 disease tokens. The chain reaction and the infinite bounce is probably not intended, they just need to make it trigger on any "attack or other ability".

RAI they're still a good unit but I don't know whether I'll be playing them in blessed sons or try to find them a spot in the drowned men list I'm currently playing.

We finally have access to mortal screening/skirmish units and it feels great.

[Mutton]

I think the obvious choice is to play them outside of Blessed Sons. As soon as they become battleline they become Veterans, which means bounties doing double damage against them. The virulent ability is fun and forces your opponent to spread out a little bit or risk catching maximum Ebola.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 minute ago, Mutton said:

I think the obvious choice is to play them outside of Blessed Sons. As soon as they become battleline they become Veterans, which means bounties doing double damage against them. The virulent ability is fun and forces your opponent to spread out a little bit or risk catching maximum Ebola.

But the blessed Sons ability is great with Concoctions and  Expert conquers is very good for them. Both good options..

[Grimrock]

On 8/17/2022 at 5:25 AM, Lightbox said:

Does anyone know the height of pusgoyle blightlords? I was wanting to convert some bretonnian pegasus knights I have for a more rotting knight look but want to know how much scenery I'll need them on to match the height well enough.

Also are tamurkhans horde units / subfaction ever worth running for casual fun/ptg as I can imagine they could be fairly fun for making unit conversion or are all the units / subfaction rules for it just too bad?

Tough to say on the height as I removed the back banner for transport. Measuring it out it looks like they should be about 6 1/4". Not sure about tamurkhans rules, but I've wanted to use some plague toads as beasts of Nurgle for a while. Size looks about right and 3 of them would add some nice variety as the stock models are pretty same-y regardless of how you build them. 

I'm pleasently surprised by the creed, I really wasn't expecting them to have the Maggotkin keyword. I'm sure the feedback loop won't stick around but they're still really strong for their price. I'd almost prefer they were worse as we lack sub 100 pt options, but really I can't complain. Might even consider picking them up when they're released separately.

[Magnus The Blue]

Had another game with my Nurglites last night.  Tried something a bit silly with max buffed plague bearers backed up with a solid core of Mortals.

  - Subfaction: Drowned Men

  - Grand Strategy: Blessed Desecration

  - Triumph: Inspired

LEADERS

Orghotts Daemonspew (300)*

Spoilpox Scrivener (120)**

  - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

  - Spells: Favoured Poxes

Sloppity Bilepiper (130)**

Poxbringer (145)**

  - General

  - Command Traits: Gift of Febrile Frenzy

  - Artefacts of Power: The Witherstave

  - Spells: Fleshy Abundance

BATTLELINE

Putrid Blightkings (250)*

Plaguebearers (300)*

OTHER

Plague Drones (200)*

Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*

Nurglings (105)*

CORE BATTALIONS

*Battle Regiment

**Command Entourage

TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000

 

Played against Koalts Claw Seraphon with something like

Slaan, Star Priest, Star Seer, 2* Carnasaurs, 3* 5 Saurus Knights (bounty hunters), 2 * Saurus Warriors (Expert Conquerors).

 

We played In the presence of idols and had a great back and forth game for the first few turns before I managed to get my Blightlords into his casters, which lead to the rest of the army falling apart without the buffs.

The buffed plague bearers did surprisingly well, charging turns 2,3 and 4, each time wiping out the target (sometimes with some help): Carnasaur, Knights, Carnasaur.  The Scrivener really makes a bit difference to their output, especially the turn you get Febrile Frenzy as well, 61 3+/3+ attacks (All Out Attack) with 6s to hit Disease and 6s to wound Mortals (Bilepipper) makes a serious dent in anything.  Worth the 300 point unit and 395 of heros needed used to set it up, No, but it was a bit of fun.  If not for all the Bounty hunters about I'd be temped to try a 60 Plague Bearer Munificent Wanders list, although I suspect it'd get boring quickly.

As usual Orghotts was probably the MVP, the free command, fast (for us) and rock solid defence for 300 points makes him a bit of a no brainer.  Can definitely see him going up 50 points, but would probably still play him. 

[plavski]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:56 PM, Magnus The Blue said:

Had another game with my Nurglites last night.  Tried something a bit silly with max buffed plague bearers backed up with a solid core of Mortals.

  - Subfaction: Drowned Men

  - Grand Strategy: Blessed Desecration

  - Triumph: Inspired

LEADERS

Orghotts Daemonspew (300)*

Spoilpox Scrivener (120)**

  - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

  - Spells: Favoured Poxes

Sloppity Bilepiper (130)**

Poxbringer (145)**

  - General

  - Command Traits: Gift of Febrile Frenzy

  - Artefacts of Power: The Witherstave

  - Spells: Fleshy Abundance

BATTLELINE

Putrid Blightkings (250)*

Plaguebearers (300)*

OTHER

Plague Drones (200)*

Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*

Nurglings (105)*

CORE BATTALIONS

*Battle Regiment

**Command Entourage

TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000

Weird bug in storm forge that didn't put the blightlords in as battleline...

Do you ever find the poxbringer worth it? He never performs for me and his fight in tandem ability very rarely gets used.

Edited September 12, 2022 by plavski

[Magnus The Blue]

21 minutes ago, plavski said:

Weird bug in storm forge that didn't put the blightlords in as battleline...

Do you ever find the poxbringer worth it? He never performs for me and his fight in tandem ability very rarely gets used.

Yes Blightlords are battle line.

Poxbringer is ok.  Our cheapest wizard and actually has some punch in combat.  In less silly lists I often include him mainly for Favoured Poxes, which is amazing if you can pull it off.  Works ok as a solo wizards who can contribute a bit even if your out muscled on magic.

[plavski]

38 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yes Blightlords are battle line.

Poxbringer is ok.  Our cheapest wizard and actually has some punch in combat.  In less silly lists I often include him mainly for Favoured Poxes, which is amazing if you can pull it off.  Works ok as a solo wizards who can contribute a bit even if your out muscled on magic.

I've found I'm rarely at 2k on the nose and the extra 5 points for Festus are well worth it if you need a non-Maggoth wizard. You have to keep him quite close to the frontlines to get his spell off, but it's a game winner. 

[Magnus The Blue]

19 minutes ago, plavski said:

I've found I'm rarely at 2k on the nose and the extra 5 points for Festus are well worth it if you need a non-Maggoth wizard. You have to keep him quite close to the frontlines to get his spell off, but it's a game winner. 

Absolutely, Festus is great for the Locus, extra healing and solid war scroll spell.  His main disadvantage is not being a daemon and being unique, so no artifact or comman trait.  If your build doesn;t need those things Festus is better 90%+ of the time. 

[Jazzbeaux]

The Rotmire Creed have now been added to the WarCom Warscroll Builder for those that use it.  I have also been looking at alternate/proxy units for the Rotmires so that I don't have to duplicate figures too much.  I am looking to use the Underworlds beastman group, Grashraks Despoilers with a few additional Ungor Raiders.

Grashrak as the Witherlord, axe dude as the Bloated One, spears as Carrion Catchers, then bows as the rest of them.  Need to check the base sizes unless anyone here knows them?

[Overread]

5 minutes ago, Jazzbeaux said:

Grashrak as the Witherlord, axe dude as the Bloated One, spears as Carrion Catchers, then bows as the rest of them.  Need to check the base sizes unless anyone here knows them?

 

Good opportunity to email GW and politely remind them to update the AoS basesize chart! 

[Jazzbeaux]

Or of course you can find the assembly instructions online.

Witherlord and Bloated One on 32mm,

Carrion Catchers on 28mm,

Mirefolk Outcasts on 25mm.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Jazzbeaux

[Hannibal]

2 hours ago, Jazzbeaux said:

The Rotmire Creed have now been added to the WarCom Warscroll Builder for those that use it.  I have also been looking at alternate/proxy units for the Rotmires so that I don't have to duplicate figures too much.  I am looking to use the Underworlds beastman group, Grashraks Despoilers with a few additional Ungor Raiders.

Grashrak as the Witherlord, axe dude as the Bloated One, spears as Carrion Catchers, then bows as the rest of them.  Need to check the base sizes unless anyone here knows them?

Hi,

 

I like to proxxy the Rotmire Creed, too, and these are my ideas:

• Ungor Raiders (basically the same approach as yours) with spare heads of Plaguebearers
• Skaven Plague Monks with the bows from Ungors

Maybe a mix of both might work.

 

The problem with Grashnaky Despoilers as well as generic Ungors is that both of these units can be fielded in a Nurgle army, meaning these units could lead to false assumptions regarding their rules.