AoS 3 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

As the title says, new Nurgle general discussion thread!

[Verminlord]

So, its been over a month since release and still no word on a faq for the new book?

[ibel]

8 hours ago, Verminlord said:

So, its been over a month since release and still no word on a faq for the new book?

No thats Right. Could be bad, could be Bad. 1-2 Things Need to FAQ (this Artefakt for counting at 2 for Desease 4exampel)

and Glootkin would be "cooler" at 660 Points but okay.....

I hope i can later write something About my game against Seraphon an Sunday. Stay cool, Keep on rolling (dice) Baby....

[Jazzbeaux]

Would the FAQ change points at this stage?  I thought the early FAQs tend to be clarifications and erratas only.

[Dreadmund]

Very unlikely to change points. Nothing in the book is so undercosted that it's likely to cause a problem. In fact nothing in the book is undercosted at all 🤣

I hope they FAQ the GUO's warscroll spell. Strong contender for worst rule in the book and totally baffling why they nerfed his spell so much from the last book.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

53 minutes ago, Jazzbeaux said:

Would the FAQ change points at this stage?  I thought the early FAQs tend to be clarifications and erratas only.

Points will probably not change, but for the first FAQ smaller warscroll and allegiance ability changes are on the table. If there is something you are really looking for it might be worth sending questions to GW. Or better yet, start an FAQ question thread on here and collect a bunch of stuff for everyone to send in all at once.

[Verminlord]

Big questions are whether tree contagion points are multiplicitive and what the heck Noxious Nexus is intended to do. 

I would also really appreciate pusgoyles getting the same 3" coherency as sce dragons and Idoneth sharks.

[TaurielBlack]

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Droning Guard
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Spread Rampant Disease
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm (?)
Gutrot Spume (170)*
Lord of Plagues (145)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (145)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (?)
- Lore of Malignance: Rancid Visitations

Battleline
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
20 x Plaguebearers (300)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1940 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
Drops: 2

Played this recently and wanted folks thoughts on how to make it more competitive, though i did have a blast when I did play is so tbh I'm already pretty happy with the list 😆But ofc, comments and CC are always welcome 👍

[Grontik]

So the consensus on the Harbinger is that he isn’t worth taking? The Shudderblight ability is pretty good (if successful) and the d3 CP in the first round is very thematic so I can see a place for him in specific lists. I just don’t know if 140pts is too much as I don’t really care most of the time when I build my lists whether it’s worth it’s cost. Just seems pretty good as a support hero for frontline units. 

[kore5022]

Sorry didn't see the new thread.

 

Has anyone played any games using the different interpretation of the CP given by trees (eg 3 trees X 3 abilities for 9cp).

Wondering how strong it is if anyone has played it?

Seems like it could be fun and make trees worth the 9 CP

[Grimrock]

17 hours ago, TaurielBlack said:

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Droning Guard
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Spread Rampant Disease
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm (?)
Gutrot Spume (170)*
Lord of Plagues (145)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (145)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (?)
- Lore of Malignance: Rancid Visitations

Battleline
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
20 x Plaguebearers (300)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1940 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
Drops: 2

Played this recently and wanted folks thoughts on how to make it more competitive, though i did have a blast when I did play is so tbh I'm already pretty happy with the list 😆But ofc, comments and CC are always welcome 👍

I've been trying something similar so I had a couple thoughts. First is to try running the plaguebearers as two units of 10 instead of one 20. I think the ability to spread out more helps with scenarios with more objectives and you don't feel as bad putting a 10 man unit on a back line objective as you would with a 20 man unit. The extra unit has helped me make sure the combat units are always free to go forward instead of babysitting. Second idea would be to try combining the sorcerer and lord of plagues into a maggoth lord. I do understand the rancid/portal combo is good, but without any bonuses from the coven the odds of getting both off are going to be pretty slim, especially if your opponent has a few unbinds. Taking bloab would give you more consistent magic, better counter magic, and much much better combat profile. You'd probably have to drop the portal for a different endless spell though, maybe a lifeswarm?

[Kasper]

5 hours ago, kore5022 said:

Sorry didn't see the new thread.

 

Has anyone played any games using the different interpretation of the CP given by trees (eg 3 trees X 3 abilities for 9cp).

Wondering how strong it is if anyone has played it?

Seems like it could be fun and make trees worth the 9 CP

I havent tried with multiplicative trees. Credible people with connections have also confirmed that its being changed to 1 per tree anyways, so I see little point in playing it that way. I feel like our summoning is already quite good as is with a list that doesnt focus on summoning at all. Like if you deepstrike your opponent you are quickly getting 7 summoning points a turn which is a lot. I typically dont summon anything turn 1 but it means I can summon 1 BoN or 3 Nurglings every turn afterwards which I have found matters a lot for holding and grabbing objectives later in the game.

[Kasper]

For the FAQ I'm anticipating:

1. Trees clarified to be 1 CP per tree
2. Rewrite noxious artefact since it does nothing now
3. Clarification on how Rotcoven works - Does it take up 3 leader slots? Is it a single entry? If a single, what happens if you take an artefact? It feels a little vague and confusing. 

Wishlisting is that Rotigus is changed from D3 MWs to 3 MWs - In the app it says 3 MWs but the tome says D3. D3 is terrible and I doubt he will be played much in this case, with 3 MWs I could see him making it into my lists.

I very much doubt we are gonna see point changes, warscroll changes or rule changes at all. 

The book is what it is.

[Kasper]

18 hours ago, TaurielBlack said:

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Droning Guard
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Spread Rampant Disease
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm (?)
Gutrot Spume (170)*
Lord of Plagues (145)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (145)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (?)
- Lore of Malignance: Rancid Visitations

Battleline
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
20 x Plaguebearers (300)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1940 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
Drops: 2

Played this recently and wanted folks thoughts on how to make it more competitive, though i did have a blast when I did play is so tbh I'm already pretty happy with the list 😆But ofc, comments and CC are always welcome 👍

I think I would take Hold the Line over the other grand strat you have chosen. Its a lot of wounds that the opponent needs to kill. 

Personally not a fan of the Lord of Plagues (or Lord of Blights for that matter) and would rather invest those points into more units or upgrading one of your heroes to something else.

I think the Rotbringer Sorc is interesting with his diseased endless spell. My only issue is that without any rerolls/+cast its a bit too unreliable to my taste having to cast Spellportal and then Racid and hope both of them succeed and the opponent fails unbinding both spells. I prefer consistency, but not everyone plays like that. Rancid is also hugely matchup dependent, although when it hits right, it hits super hard.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Kasper

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, kore5022 said:

Has anyone played any games using the different interpretation of the CP given by trees (eg 3 trees X 3 abilities for 9cp).

I have not tried it, but it really seems like a typo. Otherwise, the summoning points just ramp up so incredibly fast with number of trees. You could probably build a list that could summon a GUO every two rounds or so no problem, which just seems like too much.

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

Personally not a fan of the Lord of Plagues (or Lord of Blights for that matter) and would rather invest those points into more units or upgrading one of your heroes to something else.

I also currently don't rate them super highly. But if I was to put one in a list, it would definitely be the Lord of Blights. The Lord of Plagues just does not really seem to have a lot going for himself. His basic stats are worse than the Blights' (most notably, 7 vs. 9 bravery, 4+ vs 3+ save and no shooting attack). Their melee output is the same on average, with the Blights being less swingy. They both get about the same amount of bonus damage out of a unit of Blight Kings with their buffs, and they both get to to fight together. The only thing the Plagues has over the Blights is that chance to get a contagion point, which I think could honestly be deleted from the warscroll without any impact. For me, the Blights wins this head-to-head any time, just for the 3+ save.

[Zeblasky]

So, I've played quite a few games against top players experimenting with Nurgle and here's my 2 cents about Nurgle current state.

 

Glottkin definetly seems overpriced by about 100 points, but it can still do some work. For a big supporting hero slot 2 picks seem most obvious hovewer. First is a Great Unclean One. In this army he's relatively squishy (ONLY 20 wounds for 500 points) and Nurgle Deamon spells are mostly pretty weak, but you take him for The Witherstave. Having Diseased mortals pop off on a 3+ is very powerful, and this artefact does stack with a Circle, so in one battleround you can have your mortals going off on a 2+, which is, well, crazy, anything around GUO will die unless he dies first. Another great pick is Bloat Rotspawned. He is quite cheap for his stats, has +1 to his casting, access to Mortal lore and his MW spam/debuff is pretty strong as well.

 

Another thing of note are Plagubearers. They are nothing special except for being the tankiest unit in the book points wise. That won't win you games on it's own, but that is something to think about. They are great as 2x10 units to hold flanks and screen at the very least.

 

Now, onto the broken stuff. First of all, Nurglings. Yes, Nurglings, you heard me right. Those little buggers right now punch way above their points. They have first turn deepstrike, they autoheal all wounds on a model and they usually spam enough Diseased points to defeat anything close to their price bracket in melee. I've seen 5 Vindictors charge into 3 Nurglings, and after 2 Vindictors retreated from 3 Nurglings. This is at least quite funny, sure. 1-2 of them in Nurgle army creates both a presence in the enemy side of the board for summoning points and a quite valid threat for your screens that are holding your points.

EDIT: I've almost forgot about Beasts of Nurgle. Very cheap, quite fast, extremely maneuverable, deal good damage, annoying as hell and cheap to summon, as you can summon them every round without much trying. They are too cost effective in both their point and their summon cost.

But all right, the main event, Pussgoyle Blightlords. These guys are what Stormdrakes dream to be. First of all, Blightlords, while not the tankiest Nurgle, are still quite damn tanky, 4 of them are almost exactly like Mega Gargant with old Amulet. Only Fulminators on charge can effectively deal with 4 Blightlords on one go, and Fulminators are quite overpowered themselfs, being the highest damage unit in the game at the moment. It's very hard to kill these flies, especially if you let them Rally once or twice. Then, they are fast, being the fastest Nurgle unit, especially if you take a subfaction that gives them a premove before the battle. They will get where they need to be. And then, the worst part, they deal so much damage, so many mortals... They deal mortals on charge (4 of them deal around 5-6 mortals to a single target AND they can deal those D3 mortals to all units within 1 of each model, so it can be even more mortals) , they deal mortals versus low wound models (four of them deal ~3 mortals usually), they will always max out Diseased on at least one target (so that's additional 3-4 mortals), they can even easily try spreading those sixes on 2 targets if needed. Their base attacks are not great and are quite bad against 1+ save, but they are very numerous all the same, so save stacking is not that bad here. So, just as an example, four Blightlords will deal 8 average damage against 3+ save just with their attack damage. If it's a 1-3 wound target, it also suffers ~11-12 mortals, if not, "only" ~8-9. And all that for 440 points in a tanky faction with summoning. My Anointed on a frost phoenix could not survive more that 3 turns versus 4 Blightlords every time, and that was before the Heroic Recovery nerf.

So, Tldr: Pussgoyle Blightlords are tanky, fast and can deal great damage, so they are very good at everything. Enjoy them before FAQ drops.

 

P.S. Oh, and Overpowering Stench is a must have on your general. It can break an opposing army if your general is placed just right.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Zeblasky

[Magnus The Blue]

2 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

So, I've played quite a few games against top players experimenting with Nurgle and here's my 2 cents about Nurgle current state....

Lots of great stuff, the only bit I disagree about is the Witherstaff/GUO.  I think it's ok but that 7" range combined with the GUOs tiny movement means I just don't think your going to get enough unit in range for enough of the game to justify an 500 point GUO (who's not a great pick without it).  Against a maxed disease unit you usually only adding one extra mortal wound a turn.   If we were staved for good artefacts it would be a different matter but Arcane Tomb, Splithorn Helm, Rust Fang and even shield of growths, we've got plenty to choose from. 

I also feel like Favours Poxes is something of an overlooked gem already.  Not very easy to pull off, but the single most effective debuff in the game and potentially last forever.  Also helps us against Sons of Behemoth, which are both very hard for us to beat and very common in the competitive environment.

 

[Zeblasky]

3 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Lots of great stuff, the only bit I disagree about is the Witherstaff/GUO.  I think it's ok but that 7" range combined with the GUOs tiny movement means I just don't think your going to get enough unit in range for enough of the game to justify an 500 point GUO (who's not a great pick without it).  Against a maxed disease unit you usually only adding one extra mortal wound a turn.   If we were staved for good artefacts it would be a different matter but Arcane Tomb, Splithorn Helm, Rust Fang and even shield of growths, we've got plenty to choose from. 

I also feel like Favours Poxes is something of an overlooked gem already.  Not very easy to pull off, but the single most effective debuff in the game and potentially last forever.  Also helps us against Sons of Behemoth, which are both very hard for us to beat and very common in the competitive environment.

 

About Witherstaff - yes, on paper it looks like only adding an extra wound, but in practice it makes Diseased rolls much more reliable. There is a pretty big statistical difference between mortals on 4+ and 3+. And the chances of a lucky streak with 5 mortals are so much higher as well. And then comes the 6 circle and you get 5-6 mortals around you every turn guaranteed. GUO having big base helps here as well, as you can tag multiple units within 7. But I agree, mortals here do have quite a great selection of reliable artefacts.

 

I am also not sure that Megas are such a problem for Nurgle now, when you have 4x2 Blightlords to charge and beat down 2 megas. With a proper army you should be able to kill 2 out of 4 gargants by around a third turn. Honestly, 4 blightlords just need 3-4 turns in combat to take a Gargant solo on average, even if you count the fact that they will be losing models. And you have other assets to assist them in the task of beating down Megas, while Nurglings can just sit near opponent points, daring other Megas to move from the cap.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Zeblasky

[Vaux]

Hello,

I want to get into AOS again and chose Nurgle for it, so after reading some stuff up I wanted to pick your brains to see if the list I have in mind is an okay list worth building up to.

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm
Bloab Rotspawned (300)*

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
4 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Plaguebearers (150)*
10 x Plaguebearers (150)*

Units
3 x Nurglings (105)
3 x Nurglings (105)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157
Drops: 3
 

The idea is to have the Plaguebears hold backfield objectives, while the Nurglings use Hidden infestation to generate summoning points and annoy the opponent. The Blightkings und Blighlords are there for marching down the field and spread the gift of Nurgle, while bashing some skulls in.

I am open for any kind of advice and ideas.

[Zeblasky]

3 hours ago, Vaux said:

Hello,

I want to get into AOS again and chose Nurgle for it, so after reading some stuff up I wanted to pick your brains to see if the list I have in mind is an okay list worth building up to.

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm
Bloab Rotspawned (300)*

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
4 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Plaguebearers (150)*
10 x Plaguebearers (150)*

Units
3 x Nurglings (105)
3 x Nurglings (105)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157
Drops: 3
 

The idea is to have the Plaguebears hold backfield objectives, while the Nurglings use Hidden infestation to generate summoning points and annoy the opponent. The Blightkings und Blighlords are there for marching down the field and spread the gift of Nurgle, while bashing some skulls in.

I am open for any kind of advice and ideas.

This is actually very close to the max meta build I was discussing above. I'd say go for Drowned men, replace Blightkings with 4 Blightlords (Blightkings usually are too slow and sluggish to do anything useful). Then you have 100 points left. You can leave them as they are for triumph, get some plague monks (85 points of screening), or may be remove 1 Nurglings and add 1 more unit of Plague Drones. But the best choice here is to instead drop Nurglings and take a hero and get an easy 1 drop build. With that you can go and reasonably hope for a 5-0 at a tourney, you just gotta do your tactics very carefully. You can still build this as one drop without a third hero (with one 3 times reinforced unit of Blightlords), if you really want it that way. With this setup it is quite easy to table most armies by a fourth turn, provided you won't get double turned against Fulminators or some very nasty shooting. And no, that's not Lumineth, their archers are too reliant on mortals you can quite cost effectivelly absorb, just not so much with your heroes. But hey, you can summon Deamon heroes, so who really cares? x)

 

EDIT: was slightly wrong in points, corrected that in army advice section.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Zeblasky

[kore5022]

12 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have not tried it, but it really seems like a typo. Otherwise, the summoning points just ramp up so incredibly fast with number of trees. You could probably build a list that could summon a GUO every two rounds or so no problem, which just seems like too much.

Definitely feels like a typo but it's why I was wondering if anyone tried it just for sciences. 

Can't get games in my area again currently but the 1 point per tree which costs 9 to summon also feels really over costed. 

[Zeblasky]

@Magnus The BlueI've also forgot to add that GUO boosts free healing from 1 to D3 within 14 of him. That is also why he can be such a great support piece, especially behind the Blightlords (if he can keep up of course).

Edited January 19, 2022 by Zeblasky

[IRRecio]

Tried a GUO+Rotigus, bilepiper, scrivener, 10 Plaguebearers, 20 Plaguebearers, 20 Plaguebearers with munificent wanderers list and it was easily better than any of the mortal lists I had been running. Getting a third wound on the plaguebearer blobs is disgusting. They outtanked a full 4 fulminator charge with no extra protections. Also not relying on the scrivener and bilepiper is nice. They're good if they get survive shooting, but plaguebearers are pretty much self sustainable.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by IRRecio

[TaurielBlack]

16 hours ago, Kasper said:

I think I would take Hold the Line over the other grand strat you have chosen. Its a lot of wounds that the opponent needs to kill. 

Personally not a fan of the Lord of Plagues (or Lord of Blights for that matter) and would rather invest those points into more units or upgrading one of your heroes to something else.

I think the Rotbringer Sorc is interesting with his diseased endless spell. My only issue is that without any rerolls/+cast its a bit too unreliable to my taste having to cast Spellportal and then Racid and hope both of them succeed and the opponent fails unbinding both spells. I prefer consistency, but not everyone plays like that. Rancid is also hugely matchup dependent, although when it hits right, it hits super hard.

True enough, I chose that grand strat mainly cause it sounded fun at the time(made the list mainly for kicks, but it turned out to be quite effective when I used it ( despite some misplacements on my part).

In regards to the lord of plagues/blights, I dunno… I guess I put mr plague in cause I like the model/makes my blight kings better? What would you suggest instead?

[ibel]

I mostly Agree.

 

The Pusgoyle Blightlords are my Favoriet too. very good in Almothst everything. I Hope they aren`t FAQ in Points to much (everything over 240 would be very bad).

Would be the best that they arn'nt a testet so.....

Maybe playing this:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Drowned Men
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Leaders
Bloab Rotspawned (300)*
- Lore of Malignance: Plague Squall
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Disease

Battleline
4 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
4 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*

Units
1 x Pusgoyle Blightlords - Single (110)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
Drops: 1