Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Champasaur]

For the artefact Drakescale armor, do D3 (and D6 really for that matter) damage weapons count as having a damage characteristic of 2 or more? 

[Marcvs]

7 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

For the artefact Drakescale armor, do D3 (and D6 really for that matter) damage weapons count as having a damage characteristic of 2 or more? 

Unclear, needs an FAQ. Personally I would argue that yes they do count (interpreting damage characterstic of 2 or more as "anything but 1")

[Champasaur]

4 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Unclear, needs an FAQ. Personally I would argue that yes they do count (interpreting damage characterstic of 2 or more as "anything but 1")

That is how I had originally interpreted it, but started to double guess myself.

[PJetski]

26 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

For the artefact Drakescale armor, do D3 (and D6 really for that matter) damage weapons count as having a damage characteristic of 2 or more? 

It probably should be errata'd to "A damage characteristic other than 1"

[jhamslam]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:01 PM, Scurvydog said:

Only me who does not even dare to buy any models to make lists, even without the new models, in case the FAQ does change the relictor? I am in no way confident it will not be changed again from what it is now, which will completely bust most of the ideas presented here, because how great will most lists be without the Relictor?

The only goto I can see then is something like 6 longstrikes/15 judis + 6 annihilators with hammers + imperatant, that would be the only way to get units across the field somewhat efficiently, even if the 7+ reroll charge is not that reliable.

7+ re roll charges (cus Annihilators do that) are plenty reliable

a 7+ is 58.33% , with the free re-roll when they come down its 82.64%

but yes it will kill oldcast if they change the relictor translocation

Edited September 30, 2021 by jhamslam

[Archibald]

Ist it correct that Judicators with Xbows score 2 hits for EACH hit? Just want to make shure because translation errors are a real thing.

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Ist it correct that Judicators with Xbows score 2 hits for EACH hit? Just want to make shure because translation errors are a real thing.

Yes Crossbow Judicators effectively have 4 shots each

15x Judicators are our highest damage output shooting unit. Even against 3+ saves they do more than 6 Longstrikes or 15 Bow Judicators (yes that includes the mortal wounds)

[Archibald]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Yes Crossbow Judicators effectively have 4 shots each

15x Judicators are our highest damage output shooting unit. Even against 3+ saves they do more than 6 Longstrikes or 15 Bow Judicators (yes that includes the mortal wounds)

Big thanks pal!

one more question:

What does the stormshield ability of Protectors do?

[PJetski]

14 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Big thanks pal!

one more question:

What does the stormshield ability of Protectors do?

Exactly what it says... it adds 1 to save rolls if half the unit (or more) are using Glaives.

[Archibald]

13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Exactly what it says... it adds 1 to save rolls if half the unit (or more) are using Glaives.

The problem is that i have the german battletome and in the german one it says that they are -1 to hit.
Does stormshield work on all attacks or just shooting attacks?

[PJetski]

Just now, Archibald said:

The problem is that i have the german battletome and in the german one it says that they are -1 to hit.
Does stormshield work on all attacks or just shooting attacks?

Ah, I understand. It's weird that the german version has so many errors.

It does not specify melee or shooting, so it gives +1 to save rolls works against all attacks.

[Archibald]

26 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Ah, I understand. It's weird that the german version has so many errors.

It does not specify melee or shooting, so it gives +1 to save rolls works against all attacks.

Are there even more errors? 😱

The only one i know is the Protectors Stormshield.

[AverageBoss]

So for my first 3rd edition list, I am thinking:

Hammers of Sigmar 

Lord Imperitant 

Lord Relictor

Knight Incantor

5x Vindicators

5x Vindicators

10x Judicators

4x Fulminators 

3x Palladors

 

And at that point I can either take a 2nd unit of Palladors, or a unit of Concussors.

I think Hunters and Palladors have a lot of promise this edition and are being slept on. They don't have the raw damage or durability of other units, but the utility and potential trickery seems huge.

Rending shooting and melee (rend 2 on the palladors). Both potential battleline, with Hunters being redeemer. And all those free teleports.

[Champasaur]

If I have the extra 15 points in a list, is it worth upgrading Vindictors to Sequitors? I have nothing left to spend and was wondering if it is even worth it.

[Champasaur]

1 minute ago, AverageBoss said:

So for my first 3rd edition list, I am thinking:

Can you tell me what the name of this forum is really quick?

[CommissarRotke]

13 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

If I have the extra 15 points in a list, is it worth upgrading Vindictors to Sequitors? I have nothing left to spend and was wondering if it is even worth it.

may as well try it out

13 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

Can you tell me what the name of this forum is really quick?

[Champasaur]

9 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

may as well try it out

Ah shoot you got me XD

[Dogmantra]

6 hours ago, Champasaur said:

For the artefact Drakescale armor, do D3 (and D6 really for that matter) damage weapons count as having a damage characteristic of 2 or more? 

They either all count as 1, or you roll the damage before the saves and get to reroll saves for any non-1s.

22.2.4 Random Characteristics says:

Quote

Random Attacks or Damage: If you need to know the value of a random Attacks or Damage characteristic for a weapon being used by a unit to make an attack, make the random characteristic roll shown on the unit's warscroll. The roll is the characteristic for that attack. If you need to know the value of a random Attack or Damage characteristic for a weapon at a time other than when it is being used to make an attack, count it as having a value of 1.

So the question is, is a save roll "other than when it is being used to make an attack" and I would say... probably? Because it's an odd break from the usual format to roll damage before the save when it explicitly works the other way around in the usual attack sequence. But I think there's an argument to be made that you very much are doing it at a time when it is being used to make an attack.

[boombyeyeah]

In the old 2.0 FAQ d3 dmg counted as higher than 1 in that regard.

[PJetski]

Episode #3 of The Stormkeep is live

This is a quick discussion about Cycle of the Storm, and how it seems to revive a unit even against infinite damage. 

If you want more details on how this works, come chat in our discord: https://discord.gg/C7hk88jd

[boyadventurer]

So with Relictors + Arcane Tome being a thing, would they get to dispel two endless spells a turn? It says "each player can attempt to dispel 1 endless spell with each friendly wizard and each friendly priest". Could have easily wrote it "with each friendly unit that is either a wizard or priest" or something.

[PrimeElectrid]

12 hours ago, Champasaur said:

If I have the extra 15 points in a list, is it worth upgrading Vindictors to Sequitors? I have nothing left to spend and was wondering if it is even worth it.

Take a triumph 

[AdamR]

Presuming they ever get released...

As they are currently pretty much the same cost - Lord Celestant on Stardrake or 2 Knights Draconis? And why?

 

[PJetski]

3 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Take a triumph 

I would agree with this, the difference between Liberators and Vindictors is very minimal. If you don't give them save buffs the 3+ save characteristic is exactly the same as a 4+ save with +1 to save rolls.

+1 to Wound rolls once per game is really good with Judicators, or as a backup in case you fail Celestial Blades, or if you just want to buff two different units with +1 to Wound.

[Scurvydog]

2 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Take a triumph 

Agreed, I find it hard to justify vindictors in most builds, they are good on paper, but really they are not the work horses of the army, they are not fast or hard hitting enough. If you want a hard hitting anvil you go for protectors for example. Especially when just getting a 5 man squad, reach doesnt really matter, you probably wont use all out defense much anyway on them and the liberator prime with 3 great weapon attacks makes their output very similar.

2 hours ago, AdamR said:

Presuming they ever get released...

As they are currently pretty much the same cost - Lord Celestant on Stardrake or 2 Knights Draconis? And why?

 

I'd say the Stardrake will lack behind a bit from a pure min max perspective, however it does have some justifications. Damage output is very similar between a stardrake and 1 knight draconis without considering the instant kill mechanics of both. These work in a similar manner, the Stardrake can simply do this 3 times, which can be a big difference in output when outright slaying blightkings or troggoths on a 5+.

If you want a dragon general, the stardrake is a good choice too, as it is simply harder to kill due to more wounds on the same save, making an amulet of destiny more efficient as well. 

The ranged attack of the Stardrake is more useful as well in my opinion and often ignored, at 30" range it can quite reliably outright snipe a support hero, with all out attack on top it is about 5,5 average dmg against a 4+ save, which also makes it useful to finish of a model too, take out a demon prince in 2 shooting phases or single handedly just get those 3 wounds per turn removed from Morathi right from the start of the game thanks to 30" range.

If you are running Stormdrakes, especially a unit of 4, that adds a lot of value to the knight draconis bonus shooting in the hero phase ability. The knight also has a 4+ spell ignore for himself, which is handy. The stardrake has a +1/-1 cast for friendly/enemy wizards, that should not be ignored as it is one of the only sources of cast bonuses Stormcast has. If you have any wizards then that adds to the Stardrakes value quite a bit. As a minor thing the Stardrake has a free command once per game.

There is a lot to like about 2 Knight Draconis instead of a Stardrake. I doubt I would ever take 2 of them and instead invest in more stormdrakes, but that is a different discussion. The 2 knights will give more raw damage output, more board presence being 2 models, if within 12" their breath attacks got a higher potential as well. The stardrake has some more utility, takes more effort to kill, so a good choice for menagerie trait, ranged attack with more utility and more efficiency as a single model anvil for artifacts etc.

I am quite sure in most min max setups a knight draconis will be the general, to have more points for stormdrakes or possibly adding in one of the named lads. Stardrake + Krondys is also fun for +4 cast 😛