AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Opiemach1]

Don't forget to check out the Discord channel in AoS Coach for #Nighthaunt. 

Lots of great conversations and tech/lists.

[Yeknomious]

21 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I've been assigning 3 out of my 10 to be "cohesion buddies." All they do is make sure all hands are being held properly. I'm not too put off by it since my opponent has to do the same. We both view it as, yes 7 out of 10 will attack at a given time, but once you lose 5 suddenly 3 more enter the fray. Kind of like a second wind as the unit dies down.

This gives the distances some play. So if my line needs to wrap around an enemy unit or a large base, I can shift a few millimeters and still have coherency. And, as I take models away, the "buddies" in the back can use their 3" pile in to fill gaps to keep the lines overlapping. Since coherency matters only at the end of a turn as long as the unit exists you will always have that 3" of play, so long as anything you move ends up as close or closer to the enemy unit.

This doesn't apply to Reapers, of course. They stay in two ranks, even while wrapping around a target.

This is incredibly useful, thanks for the insight. My head hurts thinking about coherency now though! Also, very excited to listen to your chat with Sotek and CaptainSoup. Great to have you championing Nighthaunt so well : )

Edited August 17, 2021 by Yeknomious

[EnixLHQ]

21 minutes ago, Yeknomious said:

This is incredibly useful, thanks for the insight. My head hurts thinking about coherency now though! Also, very excited to listen to your chat with Sotek and CaptainSoup. Great to have you championing Nighthaunt so well : )

The "buddy" method makes the whole thing easier. Our parents were always right, hold hands when crossing the street!

And thanks for the sentiment, but it isn't just me. Capn' and Sotek got it all started, and it's all of us who play and love this faction that are championing it. Me? I just don't shut up around here 

[CaptainSoup]

23 hours ago, CaptainSoup said:

So an update on this. After speaking with @EnixLHQ I went ahead and contacted Sotek to see if he was interested in talking and he was more than happy to oblige! With that I give you Enix and Sotek's extended conversation on Nighthaunt! 

A couple things to point out about the conversation:

• First and foremost Enix and Sotek were great guests and it was a pleasure to host their conversation.
• Second this was done pretty much off the cuff and the recording is pretty much unedited. There were a couple of Discord beeps and I a stumble a bit at the start.

Despite these small hiccups the overall conversation between Enix and Sotek was great and was very informative even with the amateur style recording. Anyone with an interest in Nighthaunt should definitely give this a listen!

Thanks again to @EnixLHQ and LoremasterSotek for the conversation and I hope that the conversation provides insight for others who have an interest in Nighthaunt and hope to give them a try sometime!

EDIT2: Here is the thumbnail image for the conversation created by EnixLHQ!

Updated Download with the Thumbnail and other metadata courtesy of EnixLHQ:

Updated Audio file with Thumbnail

EDIT: Here are the images Sotek mentioned during the conversation:

 

2103868769_EnixLHQTalksNighthauntwithLoremasterofSotek.mp3 97.63 MB · 17 downloads

a91kye84.bmp 4.45 MB · 0 downloads

Thread post updated with a new thumbnail for the audio file!

[EnixLHQ]

Updated my guide with Sotek's list in the sample list section and our podcast with him in the section just after.

 

[dmorley21]

Thanks @CaptainSoup and @EnixLHQ for the podcast. It was a great listen and I found it a bit recharging after losing four games with NH in AoS 3.0 and switching my focus to my Lumineth. 

I did want to bring up a couple things:

• Sotek was calling his list a death star, but that's not quite right, as his "death star" is a combo of the Chainrasps/Reapers/Olynder/Kurdoss all doing damage with buffs from the other heroes. I'd best describe as an aggressive mobile castle. 
• He mentioned some weaknesses. One specifically that he didn't mention is Sons of Behemat. I've been on the receiving end of their impact hits on the charge hitting multiple units in a castle and it's not fun. Plus, then they're big monsters with a limited base size for you to swing at. 

Overall though it was great, and provided a lot of food for thought. 

[Opiemach1]

My "Death Star" or Battle Ball, whatever you want to call it generally consists of Spirit Hosts up front in a Unit of 9 with x2 Spirit Torments, Lady O and others in the gooey center. Spirit Hosts with x2 ST.... Can tank some really crazy numbers.

My last game I played vs Slaneesh I was able to tank Slickblade Seeker Charge, Synessa Charge, Keeper of Secrets and Shard speaker charge all in the same turn. My Opponent thought by charging with them all into Spirit Hosts that he could just push through it. That was not the case. Seekers died, Synessa died, Keeper almost died and shard retreated.

Spirit Hosts held up until about turn 3 when my opponent got double turn and then support for them started dying off.

[dmorley21]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:53 AM, Opiemach1 said:

My "Death Star" or Battle Ball, whatever you want to call it generally consists of Spirit Hosts up front in a Unit of 9 with x2 Spirit Torments, Lady O and others in the gooey center. Spirit Hosts with x2 ST.... Can tank some really crazy numbers.

My last game I played vs Slaneesh I was able to tank Slickblade Seeker Charge, Synessa Charge, Keeper of Secrets and Shard speaker charge all in the same turn. My Opponent thought by charging with them all into Spirit Hosts that he could just push through it. That was not the case. Seekers died, Synessa died, Keeper almost died and shard retreated.

Spirit Hosts held up until about turn 3 when my opponent got double turn and then support for them started dying off.

Yeah the ideal death star / battle ball / moving castle composition will be very meta dependent I think. 

I thought about what you mentioned above, then realized it will have pretty much zero game against the many Sons of Behemat lists in my area as it won't take down Megas and the Megas will outscore me on objectives. Otherwise though, I do have to say it's a great anvil. 

[dmorley21]

So after only losing and then reading/listening to success stories people have had with Nighthaunt in 3rd edition, I retailored my list to the following:

Emerald Host

Lady Olynder (general, Soul Cage) / Mannfred / Guardian of Souls (Spirit Drain) / Spirit Torment (PotFW) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Shademist) 

30 Grimghast Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Dreadscythe Harridans 

Mortalis Terminexus

And then I went and won a game against the new Stormcast (well an army based on the Dominion units)! 

 

Some thoughts: 

30 Reapers supported by the Krulghast (5+ ward), Spirit Torment, Guardian of Souls (spell), and Lady Olynder (command ability) proved to be a major tank. They definitely suffered on turns when I didn't have a command point to give them All Out Attack - I feel that's necessary to really unlock their offense. 

I had imagined running Olynder in the midst of the Reapers as my moving castle, but ended up putting her and the Hexwraiths on the other side of the support heroes, which created two bubbles for me. I was also able to keep everything in range pretty easily that way (one unit of Hexwraiths kept slipping in and out of bubbles). 

Mannfred unlocked a lot for me. His warscroll spell in conjunction with the Mortalis, and Lady Olynder's abilities, allowed me to deal out a decent amount of mortal wounds. He also allowed me to easily score the battle tactic Monstrous Takeover and was able to just be a presence on his own, unsupported. He can also literally be anywhere he wants and has enough offense to take on strong units (though I wouldn't run him into true offensive powerhouses). 

Overall, I was very pleased. I only own 10 Chainrasp Horde, and don't feel like collecting more for a horde in Reikenor's subfaction, so I feel locked into Emerald Host. The Hexwraiths I find much more lacking in this edition, but they do keep Olynder alive so that she can dish out some offense. 

I don't know that I'm in love with the list, and would be open to more tweaks, but I do like what it's got going on after one game. I also only put the Harridans in the underworld, which was weird. But without Cogs and/or Death Riders, I just find deep striking to be a lot more limiting. And I do miss the Black Coach and to a lesser extent Reikenor - both more so visually than what they actually brought to the table. 

I'm looking forward to getting in more games with this list soon! 

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

So after only losing and then reading/listening to success stories people have had with Nighthaunt in 3rd edition, I retailored my list to the following:

Emerald Host

Lady Olynder (general, Soul Cage) / Mannfred / Guardian of Souls (Spirit Drain) / Spirit Torment (PotFW) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Shademist) 

30 Grimghast Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Dreadscythe Harridans 

Mortalis Terminexus

And then I went and won a game against the new Stormcast (well an army based on the Dominion units)! 

 

Some thoughts: 

30 Reapers supported by the Krulghast (5+ ward), Spirit Torment, Guardian of Souls (spell), and Lady Olynder (command ability) proved to be a major tank. They definitely suffered on turns when I didn't have a command point to give them All Out Attack - I feel that's necessary to really unlock their offense. 

I had imagined running Olynder in the midst of the Reapers as my moving castle, but ended up putting her and the Hexwraiths on the other side of the support heroes, which created two bubbles for me. I was also able to keep everything in range pretty easily that way (one unit of Hexwraiths kept slipping in and out of bubbles). 

Mannfred unlocked a lot for me. His warscroll spell in conjunction with the Mortalis, and Lady Olynder's abilities, allowed me to deal out a decent amount of mortal wounds. He also allowed me to easily score the battle tactic Monstrous Takeover and was able to just be a presence on his own, unsupported. He can also literally be anywhere he wants and has enough offense to take on strong units (though I wouldn't run him into true offensive powerhouses). 

Overall, I was very pleased. I only own 10 Chainrasp Horde, and don't feel like collecting more for a horde in Reikenor's subfaction, so I feel locked into Emerald Host. The Hexwraiths I find much more lacking in this edition, but they do keep Olynder alive so that she can dish out some offense. 

I don't know that I'm in love with the list, and would be open to more tweaks, but I do like what it's got going on after one game. I also only put the Harridans in the underworld, which was weird. But without Cogs and/or Death Riders, I just find deep striking to be a lot more limiting. And I do miss the Black Coach and to a lesser extent Reikenor - both more so visually than what they actually brought to the table. 

I'm looking forward to getting in more games with this list soon! 

No pointers or real feedback. Just that I've found my best success completely abandoning our old 2.0 ways and trying completely new setups.

[adreal]

Okay, so I kinda fell out of playing sigmar for abit, coming back in for 3.0 and looking at sticking with the spooky boys.

 

List im looking at is 2000 points

Reikenors Condemned 

Core Battlaion: Battle regiment

Commander: Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed, General: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, Corpse Candle

Sub Commander: Guardian of Souls, Beacon of Nagashizzar, Spell:Ghost Mist

Sub Commander: Krulghast Cruciator

Troops: Chainrasp Horde, Reinforced twice

Troops: Chainrasp Horde

Troops: Spirit Host, Reinforced once

Troops: Bladeghiest Revenants

Core Battlaion: Warlord

Commander: Reikenor the Grimhailer, Spell: Shademist

Sub Commander: Spirit Torment

Sub Commander: The Brair Queen, Spell: Spirit Drain

Troops: Grimghast Reapers, Reinforced once

Troops: Thorns of the Briar Queen

Edited August 26, 2021 by adreal

[Gitzdee]

Hi all. I was building a black coach this week and its an awesome model. but i was wondering what i could do with the spare cairn wraith rider model. Was hoping to get some inspiration here. Also got a spare hourglass part from the executioner kit.

[dmorley21]

6 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

No pointers or real feedback. Just that I've found my best success completely abandoning our old 2.0 ways and trying completely new setups.

Yeah, that seems to be it. I was so married to playing aggressively coming out of the underworld and fishing for Wave of Terror; I just need to really in my mind tell myself I have to play differently. 

2 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Hi all. I was building a black coach this week and its an awesome model. but i was wondering what i could do with the spare cairn wraith rider model. Was hoping to get some inspiration here. Also got a spare hourglass part from the executioner kit.

So I used the extra cairn wraith to be the champion in a unit of Hexwraiths, as I had trouble identifying the champion of the unit and champions are more important now. I also used my regular Cairn Wraith model I had (as I'll never use in this edition unless it gets new rules) as a champion for another unit of Hexwraiths. You can probably pick them out in the image I've attached. 

[Gitzdee]

19 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Yeah, that seems to be it. I was so married to playing aggressively coming out of the underworld and fishing for Wave of Terror; I just need to really in my mind tell myself I have to play differently. 

So I used the extra cairn wraith to be the champion in a unit of Hexwraiths, as I had trouble identifying the champion of the unit and champions are more important now. I also used my regular Cairn Wraith model I had (as I'll never use in this edition unless it gets new rules) as a champion for another unit of Hexwraiths. You can probably pick them out in the image I've attached. 

 

Thats awesome. I've got an old fantasy ork warboss on boar i dont use anymore. Maybe i could put the cairnwraith with whip on the boar and use it as a knight of shrouds on a steed haha. Lets keep those ideas comming ^^.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Iksdee

[Nubgan]

10 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Hi all. I was building a black coach this week and its an awesome model. but i was wondering what i could do with the spare cairn wraith rider model. Was hoping to get some inspiration here. Also got a spare hourglass part from the executioner kit.

I made a Necromancer style character out of mine. He is sat on a gravestone from the black coach kit, skulls on the base and some bits from dryads for the magic and the raising skeleton.

Not really useful, meh, looks nice

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nubgan

[adreal]

Just finished fixing up my first unit for 3.0

And a hero

Edited August 27, 2021 by adreal

[Garxia]

FAQS are up!

The Bad: Nighthaunt FAQ not even updated, Mourngul raised to 300 pts.

The Good: "Page 100 – Krulghast Cruciator, Empowering Excruciation Change the second sentence to: ‘The Deathless Spirits battle trait negates wounds and mortal wounds allocated to friendly Nighthaunt units wholly within 12" of any friendly empowered Krulghast Cruciators on a 5+ instead of 6+.’" (Broken Realms Belakor FAQ).

Edited August 27, 2021 by Garxia

[Liquidsteel]

Nice, you can now use the Krulghast to save regular wounds on 5+ and not just Mortals!

Shame about not having a full FAQ, same for FEC.

[dmorley21]

The Mourngul is now legal and 300 points. 

[CaptainSoup]

2 hours ago, Garxia said:

FAQS are up!

The Bad: Nighthaunt FAQ not even updated, Mourngul raised to 300 pts.

The Good: "Page 100 – Krulghast Cruciator, Empowering Excruciation Change the second sentence to: ‘The Deathless Spirits battle trait negates wounds and mortal wounds allocated to friendly Nighthaunt units wholly within 12" of any friendly empowered Krulghast Cruciators on a 5+ instead of 6+.’" (Broken Realms Belakor FAQ).

I have no idea what they were thinking upping the mourngul to 300 points. It was at best questionable to bring him before, now I really doubt we'll see any play of him outside the stray casual list.

The Krulghast rule clarification is much appreciated though. Good to know I was using it right the whole time lol.

EDIT: According to a Soulblight player, they nerfed the Mourngul because Soulblight players were abusing his -1 to hit and ability to inflict MWs. Not sure how credible that is but there ya go.

Edited August 27, 2021 by CaptainSoup

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, CaptainSoup said:

 

EDIT: According to a Soulblight player, they nerfed the Mourngul because Soulblight players were abusing his -1 to hit and ability to inflict MWs. Not sure how credible that is but there ya go.

I haven't seen any lists using a Mourngul in Soulblight, at least not on those you can see used in competitive events here in the UK.

[EnixLHQ]

Balewind Vortex got an update, too. But I didn't see any points for it in my quick look this morning. If we can use it the changes to it are pretty nice, except that Reikenor (or any other unique) can't use it..

Edited August 27, 2021 by EnixLHQ

[CaptainSoup]

12 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Balewind Vortex got an update, too. But I didn't see any points for it in my quick look this morning. If we can use it the changes to it are pretty nice, except that Reikenor (or any other unique) can't use it..

In case there are those that aren't familiar, the term "Warhammer Legends" is a phrase used by GW to say that this will be the last time that document will be updated. As a rule of thumb, GW recommends to not use any Warhammer Legends datasheets/warscrolls for competitive tournaments. Any future updates to the game will not take any Warhammer Legends sheets/scrolls into consideration for balance purposes.

When GW introduced this for Warhammer 40k, it was pretty much agreed by the community at large that any datasheets put into Legends will never see the table again since GW will no longer balance or update them. So far this has been proven true and I would think it best to assume that the AoS community will follow the same example. The only exception to this would be in situation where a RTT or GT will announce ahead of time that using Legends is allowed for their tourneys.

Excerpt from one of the Legends Documents:
 

Quote

Every Citadel Miniature is a unique piece of the ever-evolving
narrative of Warhammer. It is, then, an unfortunate truth that we
can’t continue to sell and support every model we’ve ever made
indefinitely. As we make new models, and new books to explore
their background and rules, we have to stop producing and featuring
some older models. But just like many of you, we still treasure our
collections of older Citadel Miniatures, and we still want to be able to
use them in games and forge glorious narratives on the tabletop! This
is where Warhammer Legends comes in: it gives us a place to publish
rules that allow you to play games with your older miniatures.
The warscrolls in this document are not intended for competitive
play. If you want to include any of the following units in your army,
you must get your opponent’s permission first. Each unit belongs
to one or more factions, as shown in the table below. Each unit will
either have its own warscroll in this document, or you will be able
to use a warscroll from the Warhammer Age of Sigmar battletome
for its faction. The Pitched Battle profiles for the models that have
a warscroll in this compendium can be found at the end of this
document. Models that use a warscroll from a battletome use the
Pitched Battle profile for that warscroll in that battletome.

TL;DR: Anything that says "Warhammer Legends" in the title of the document or is in the section of WarCom called "Warhammer Legends" can no longer to used for play outside casual game use where its agreed to be used and tournaments that say ahead of time that the documents can be used.

[relic456]

I'm gonna choose to interpret that no Nighthaunt FAQ update might mean a new battletome sooner rather than later! Great to have Krulghast clarity none the less!

[CaptainSoup]

18 minutes ago, relic456 said:

I'm gonna choose to interpret that no Nighthaunt FAQ update might mean a new battletome sooner rather than later! Great to have Krulghast clarity none the less!