AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[EnixLHQ]

19 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I was obliterated.

He had a very strong list: longstrikes, fulminators, vindictors. First turn he destroyed my first unit of 10 bladegheists with his crossbows even though I used discorporate. Turn 2 he used the same technic on another 20 bladegheists. He took a few models with longstrikes and finished them off with fulminators. His second unit of fulminators managed to succeed a long charge for Olynder. The game was set. It was traumatic.

Holy ******. Did they roll 6's every toss or what? I'm sorry to hear that. The SCs I've been up against have been much easier to deal with. I'd love to know their list.

  

1 hour ago, Rors said:

There's a Swedish lady, I've forgotten her name.. it starts with an R..

Anyway, she's been killing it with NH. From memory I think she's got multiple 5-0 results using large blocks of bladegeist in their subfaction.

Yeah, she's rocking the scene hard, and I'm more than glad to see it.

Building Scarlet and Quicksilver lists seem really easy right now, I think. They lend itself naturally to the new GHB. I'm finding it very hard to build Emerald Hosts lists, myself. The one I just posted I feel like is a stretch, but I'll get a chance to use it this weekend.

Edited July 14, 2022 by EnixLHQ

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

Holy ******. Did they roll 6's every toss or what? I'm sorry to hear that. The SCs I've been up against have been much easier to deal with. I'd love to know their list.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)

- Grand Strategy:

- Triumphs:

 

Leaders

Knight-Relictor (140)

Lord-Castellant (155)

 

Battleline

2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)

2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)

10 x Vindictors (260)

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Vindictors (130)

5 x Vindictors (130)

 

Units

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)

- Reinforced x 1

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)

 

Total: 1995 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 2 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 96

Drops: 9

That. Build it from memory but everything seems to fit.

[Rors]

3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Yeah, she's rocking the scene hard, and I'm more than glad to see it.

Building Scarlet and Quicksilver lists seem really easy right now, I think. They lend itself naturally to the new GHB. I'm finding it very hard to build Emerald Hosts lists, myself. The one I just posted I feel like is a stretch, but I'll get a chance to use it this weekend.

Emerald host is also my favorite subfaction. That said in terms of raw output I think the other two have more reliable impact. I've not got a great deal of games in but it's often negated very easily. You can spike and get a lot of damage out, or only get one or two characters and do barley any damage.

In terms of your list, I think you have a lot of options. Bounty hunting harridans attacking a unit that's in range of the purple sun is really nice. The cruciator will also help against their bounty hunters.

I'm not sure what I'd change, I'm not a huge fan of hex wraiths and you already have plenty of options for damage. If you were looking for recommendations, I'd swap them for spirit host to protect your cruciator as he'll be a big target and loosing him will mean you loose other stuff way quicker too. It could just be different playstyle preference though, my suggestion might not be an improvement as much as just a change, make of it what you will.

[The_Dudemeister]

I'd need to double check but I think every tournament placing list I've seen has a unit of 4 Banshees. 

Gotta say I also had good experiences with them. Haven't been in any tournaments but my local meta is equally magic heavy. In some games they prevented way more damage than our other great defensive abilities like -1 to wound etc. 

Not just by protecting against literal Mortal wound spamming but also preventing an enemy unit to benefit from buffs. 

[Rors]

My go to list spams banshees and they're great. Taking 6+ units isn't something I'd recommend but I also have 4 harrows to spam redeploy.

With endless spells becoming prominent and so many builds relying on spells to pull of combos they can really shut down the opponent.

In MSU they're also really good for stacking up debuffs and their base warscroll is pretty much the best raw damage stats in the book on a points to damge ratio. They are extremely fragile though.

[dmorley21]

This last weekend, two Scarlet Doom lists went 4-1, placing 2nd and 6th. Two other NH lists went 3-2. That’s from the tournaments that were reported on the stats show by The Honest Wargamer. 

I know Ronya likes Grieving Legion a lot, while Mike Wilson (one of the 3-2 finishes) and Tom Lyons are high on Emerald Host. It will take time for the meta to settle, but I expect NH will be an upper mid to top tier army now at the tournament scene. 

[EnixLHQ]

15 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)

- Grand Strategy:

- Triumphs:

 

Leaders

Knight-Relictor (140)

Lord-Castellant (155)

 

Battleline

2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)

2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)

10 x Vindictors (260)

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Vindictors (130)

5 x Vindictors (130)

 

Units

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)

- Reinforced x 1

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (240)

 

Total: 1995 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 2 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 96

Drops: 9

That. Build it from memory but everything seems to fit.

Thanks for this. I gave this to my Stormcast friend and told him to try to destroy me the next time we play. Which I hope is this weekend. I'll be sure to report back on what happens and what our individual takeaways are.

9 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

This last weekend, two Scarlet Doom lists went 4-1, placing 2nd and 6th. Two other NH lists went 3-2. That’s from the tournaments that were reported on the stats show by The Honest Wargamer. 

I know Ronya likes Grieving Legion a lot, while Mike Wilson (one of the 3-2 finishes) and Tom Lyons are high on Emerald Host. It will take time for the meta to settle, but I expect NH will be an upper mid to top tier army now at the tournament scene. 

When the battalions and battle plan favored monsters it was really easy for us to build lists however we wanted since we didn't have any monsters. But with the focus specifically on battlelines and anti-battlelines, it becomes much harder to justify a list that's not all "oops, all battleline." I'm still going to try out EH lists until I feel comfortable, but I think SD and QD got it this season.

[Liquidsteel]

We've been doing an 8 week league at the club, I'm currently 5-1 going in to the final 2 games (have one tonight and one next week).

I've been running Scarlet Doom. We changed lists halfway through to accommodate the GHB.

Lists quite similar; first list had the Spiteful Spirit + Soulfire Ring combo which was just a gimmick, now it's:

 

Spoiler

- Army Faction: Nighthaunt

    - Subfaction: The Scarlet Doom

    - Grand Strategy: Fright or Flight

    - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS

Lady Olynder (340)***

    - Spells: Spectral Tether

Krulghast Cruciator (150)***

    - General

    - Command Traits: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts

Guardian of Souls (150)***

    - Chill Blade

    - Artefacts of Power: Midnight Tome

    - Spells: Seal of Shyish

Spirit Torment (115)****

    - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

    - Spells: Shademist

BATTLELINE

Bladegheist Revenants (525)*

Bladegheist Revenants (175)*

Chainrasps (110)**

Chainrasps (110)**

Spirit Hosts (125)****

OTHER

Myrmourn Banshees (105)****

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (70)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Bounty Hunters

**Expert Conquerors

***Command Entourage

    - Magnificent

 

****Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: 1975/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Leveraging a big brick of 30 blades that are super tough to remove, utilising 2 x GV's to score Barge with 3VP, and Fright or Flight to make scoring the Grand Strategy rather simple.

I am currently painting up Awlrach, I do want to give him a few games and I think it could be quite fun to be able to slam most of your army 9" away turn 1 if you build for it, but probably not an ideal tactic.

 

There are also some Nagash lists being taken to Clash, a rather high profile tournament taking place in the UK this weekend. 

Nagash, Torment, 20/10/10 Blades, 4 Banshees, Cogs, Sun.

I am interested to see how they do, and I've been yearning to get Nagash back on the table, so might take this list to a 1 dayer we have weekend after next.

[lare2]

10 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

utilising 2 x GV's to score Barge with 3VP

Been thinking about doing this myself. Can also turn into an easy Desecrate their Lands as well. 

10 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I am currently painting up Awlrach, I do want to give him a few games and I think it could be quite fun to be able to slam most of your army 9" away turn 1 if you build for it, but probably not an ideal tactic.

Ran a list once with a turn 1 full army charge. Completely bounced off an Ogor Mawtribes army and got mullered turn 2. Never ran it again. 

10 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

Nagash, Torment, 20/10/10 Blades, 4 Banshees, Cogs, Sun.

Wish them the best of luck. Love Nagash and really want him to do well. I recently rebought him now that he can run with NH. Like the look of the list. 

[Fabbbio]

Just had a 2k game against a stormcast player (yndrasta, gardus, 2x20? Vindictors, dragon riders i dunno the name). We stopped at bottom turn 2 as the club was closing but it was going fairly well: my 1x20 rasps screen ate the 1st turn charge and ranged attacks of the dragons, and at bottom turn 2 I lost only krulghast, 20 rasps and some revs models (but no full units, and I could still resurrect em with lady o) while my opponent lost all his dragons for 900ish points of army. He was 3 points ahead of me tho, for his early charge as he got to more objectives turn 1 and I lost the tactic turn 2. So, victory wouldn't have been guaranteed but I had all the cards to do so. 

Beside my list and anything else, wanted to make a small consideration

We all know we are so strong in our turn. Well, I feel like we're more than that. When I charge and attacked the dragon troops they had so many - 1 save they were saving on 6+ and fighting last. The face of my opponent while I was rolling the charges was like mine while teclis dispels all my casts and then casts 4 spells at 10: oppressing 😅.

But all in all it's just for that phase and I feel like he enjoyed the game as well. At least I hope so 😅

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fabbbio

[Aeryenn]

8 hours ago, Fabbbio said:

Just had a 2k game against a stormcast player (yndrasta, gardus, 2x20? Vindictors, dragon riders i dunno the name). We stopped at bottom turn 2 as the club was closing but it was going fairly well: my 1x20 rasps screen ate the 1st turn charge and ranged attacks of the dragons, and at bottom turn 2 I lost only krulghast, 20 rasps and some revs models (but no full units, and I could still resurrect em with lady o) while my opponent lost all his dragons for 900ish points of army. He was 3 points ahead of me tho, for his early charge as he got to more objectives turn 1 and I lost the tactic turn 2. So, victory wouldn't have been guaranteed but I had all the cards to do so. 

Beside my list and anything else, wanted to make a small consideration

We all know we are so strong in our turn. Well, I feel like we're more than that. When I charge and attacked the dragon troops they had so many - 1 save they were saving on 6+ and fighting last. The face of my opponent while I was rolling the charges was like mine while teclis dispels all my casts and then casts 4 spells at 10: oppressing 😅.

But all in all it's just for that phase and I feel like he enjoyed the game as well. At least I hope so 😅

It's possible to give more than one -1 save token to the same enemy unit?

[Chronos]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

It's possible to give more than one -1 save token to the same enemy unit?

Yes, it stacks, and you can pick, so if you rolled an 11 for the charge and don't want to strike last you can use that as a -1 to save.

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

It's possible to give more than one -1 save token to the same enemy unit?

 

20 minutes ago, Chronos said:

Yes, it stacks, and you can pick, so if you rolled an 11 for the charge and don't want to strike last you can use that as a -1 to save.

From my guide:

What makes this one of our best abilities is the fact that these effects stack, meaning that you can toss several shrieks and/or stuns on the same enemy unit and watch the negatives pile up. This doesn’t override the Core Rules, though, so -9 to hit is still -1 to hit, but it makes your opponent need +9 to hit to get back to 0. Negatives to save, however, do fully calculate, so -5 to the save roll is a true -5 to the roll if your opponent can’t stack positives to cancel it. And with our access to some rend, we can push that save down even further.

[Taaaff]

What lists are you guys taking and how do you play against a Thunder Lizard list? With Lord Kroak & Engine of the Gods, there’s sometimes a couple more Stegs (including a chief if he takes a plain Slann) or a Solar Engine.

[Rors]

14 minutes ago, Taaaff said:

What lists are you guys taking and how do you play against a Thunder Lizard list? With Lord Kroak & Engine of the Gods, there’s sometimes a couple more Stegs (including a chief if he takes a plain Slann) or a Solar Engine.

Well I don't generally write lists to counter other lists but there's a few units that will be helpful.

A unit of banshees will mitigate a lot of the magic output.

The mortal wounds from bladegeists will bypass the save and damage resistance on a bastiladon and take it down quickly.

Lizardmen tend to use a ton of command points so both Olynder and Kurdos can be good options. Olynder will struggle to get spells off but is still okay utility and Kurdos is just a beat stick but remember he won't be as beaty due to their damage mitigation.

The other way to go if you're getting shot/spell nuked is large blocks and spam 5+ wards. Win on objectives.

With a huge number of ways to get out lots of high quality damage 1 attacks, night haunt should have an easier time into thunder lizards than say Big Waargh so really struggle with the damage mitigation.

[Taaaff]

55 minutes ago, Rors said:

Well I don't generally write lists to counter other lists but there's a few units that will be helpful.

A unit of banshees will mitigate a lot of the magic output.

The mortal wounds from bladegeists will bypass the save and damage resistance on a bastiladon and take it down quickly.

Lizardmen tend to use a ton of command points so both Olynder and Kurdos can be good options. Olynder will struggle to get spells off but is still okay utility and Kurdos is just a beat stick but remember he won't be as beaty due to their damage mitigation.

The other way to go if you're getting shot/spell nuked is large blocks and spam 5+ wards. Win on objectives.

With a huge number of ways to get out lots of high quality damage 1 attacks, night haunt should have an easier time into thunder lizards than say Big Waargh so really struggle with the damage mitigation.

Yeah, I know it’s not a great idea to build a list to counter another list but 90%+ of my matches are against this setup and it would be nice to be on the winning side for a change. I find the amount of mortal wounds the lizards put out to be quite debilitating against Nighthaunt.

[dmorley21]

Looking at some results, I think I counted 6 NH lists that went 4-1 or 5-0 at events this weekend. All Scarlet Doom or Quicksilver Dead. Two Nagash lists! Most can be found in this show:

 

[Rors]

16 hours ago, Taaaff said:

Yeah, I know it’s not a great idea to build a list to counter another list but 90%+ of my matches are against this setup and it would be nice to be on the winning side for a change. I find the amount of mortal wounds the lizards put out to be quite debilitating against Nighthaunt.

What do you have at your disposal to build a list with? If you're specing against that list and you have enough models to drop Nagash I'd start there. That's half an army and a shooting list is going to kill him fairly quickly.

If you need to run him, use him really aggressively. He's going to die and you're better off racing to take out as much of their stuff as you can rather than keeping him around longer. Also, the more he kills the less damage he's taking. The other half of the army should be focusing on objectives and battle tactics. Thunder lizards don't do objectives or battle tactics very well but our infantry does so press the advantage in points with them while not letting them focus on anything but Nagash. If you dominate objectives and he goes down T3 it's fine, he'll have crippled their output and they won't have the steam to catch up in points.

If mortal wounds spam is the issue you have banshees that can eat spells and Nagash for magic dominance.

Don't forget we have a 5+ wardsave command as well.

Last thing I can think of is use boat endless spell, use it to suicide a unit into a solar ark they think is safe and force them to deal with it while not being able to shoot you for a turn.

There's also always the option if you're regular player agrees to swap armies for a game. You'll get a better feel for what his list does and also see what your own list is doing from a new perspective. If the issue is the lists are just way too unbalanced, well, now you get to experience a win.

[EnixLHQ]

Updated the guide with the the top list of each Procession from the Honest Wargamer's vlog.

*Except the Nagash one. Even though it won. I can include it if you guys want, but it's also linked in the vlog.

https://www.ablucem.com/atnt#_Toc109131781

[Rors]

I'm surprised by the number of black coaches in winning lists.

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

I'm surprised by the number of black coaches in winning lists.

Honestly, me too. I can't even fathom the EH and QD lists, but I can see how they work.

This, I assume, is what separates the pros from the hobbyists.

[Neck-Romantic]

Where are our thrice bedamned Mourngul updated rules? Argh.

[lare2]

On 7/18/2022 at 7:53 PM, dmorley21 said:

Two Nagash lists

Am I right in thinking one of those won a tourney? The list was posted earlier.

*frantically begins building Nagash*

Edited July 22, 2022 by lare2

[Boggler]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

*frantically begins building Nagash*

He's a really great model!

The current state of the game is that you can literally wind up laying a huge variety of lists, unless you know your local meta so well that you already know exactly who you'll be playing and what army they're hot on.

One thing that does stand out is that a lot of people are preferring to go magic heavy and include the Purple Sun.

This pairs with Nagash very well as we all know he can shut down the hero phase all by himself. If you give him Cogs you're almost certain to avoid the normal T1/T2 miscast. Cogs are strong.

People seem to be swapping the Portal for Sun. Sun is dumb and a lot of people are jumping on it while it so good. The math makes it almost as likely that you outright kill something quicker than the Hand of Dust.

I think Nagash/Quicksilver/40Harridans gives enough spare points to upgrade the Spirit Torment to a Kruciator.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Scarlet Doom
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Fright or Flight
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (955)
Spirit Torment (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (350)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)

Units
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (105)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 65
Drops: 6
 

Tempts me to play Nagash next weekend. Without the purple sun so likely not the silly OP NPE he is.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Quicksilver Dead
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Fright or Flight
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (955)*
Spirit Torment (115)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)*
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)*
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Bounty Hunters

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 71
Drops: 4
 

 

[Liquidsteel]

2 hours ago, Boggler said:

He's a really great model!

The current state of the game is that you can literally wind up laying a huge variety of lists, unless you know your local meta so well that you already know exactly who you'll be playing and what army they're hot on.

One thing that does stand out is that a lot of people are preferring to go magic heavy and include the Purple Sun.

This pairs with Nagash very well as we all know he can shut down the hero phase all by himself. If you give him Cogs you're almost certain to avoid the normal T1/T2 miscast. Cogs are strong.

People seem to be swapping the Portal for Sun. Sun is dumb and a lot of people are jumping on it while it so good. The math makes it almost as likely that you outright kill something quicker than the Hand of Dust.

I think Nagash/Quicksilver/40Harridans gives enough spare points to upgrade the Spirit Torment to a Kruciator.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Scarlet Doom
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Fright or Flight
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (955)
Spirit Torment (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (350)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)

Units
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (105)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 65
Drops: 6
 

Tempts me to play Nagash next weekend. Without the purple sun so likely not the silly OP NPE he is.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Quicksilver Dead
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Fright or Flight
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (955)*
Spirit Torment (115)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)*
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)*
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**
5 x Hexwraiths (160)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Chronomantic Cogs (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Bounty Hunters

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 71
Drops: 4
 

 

Do you think Bounty Hunters is worth sacrificing the 1 drop here?

I feel like having the choice turn 1 is quite important.

Quite a few lists now that will be invested in magic with the new endless spell, some like Sylvaneth can yeet them at you from outside standard range.

Getting to go first and moving in to unbind range can really mess with them, along with getting your defences up potentially.