AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[vinnyt]

If there's no additional benefit to taking that formation beyond the exploding bites, I'm not a huge fan, especially since Fuethan unlocks all sharks as battleline and not just the shiver. 

But, as usual, we're gonna have to see a TON more of the rules to get a complete picture.

 

I will say, I'm super excited that this isn't just an auto-take obviously busted formation and that there might be *gasp* actual choices to make when constructing lists. 

[Rhetoric]

8 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

If there's no additional benefit to taking that formation beyond the exploding bites, I'm not a huge fan, especially since Fuethan unlocks all sharks as battleline and not just the shiver. 

But, as usual, we're gonna have to see a TON more of the rules to get a complete picture.

 

I will say, I'm super excited that this isn't just an auto-take obviously busted formation and that there might be *gasp* actual choices to make when constructing lists. 

Right there with you, there was a time I was wishing there was a way to build a tide flip Fuethan list with no Namarti.  After playing with the Fury of the Deep Thralls/Reavers scrolls I think they have a significant place in a list.  
 

the new tome can’t come out soon enough so we see the full picture!

[DocKeule]

37 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

I will say, I'm super excited that this isn't just an auto-take obviously busted formation and that there might be *gasp* actual choices to make when constructing lists. 

Agreed. That is the thing I like the most so far that is looks like there are going to be very different list-concepts viable at the same time. And with sharks or turtles becoming battleline in some circumstances we won't be forced to take units that don't fit the theme of the army that often.

Although frankly I see a lot of Fuethan shark spam lists coming up.

Edited February 22, 2022 by DocKeule

[Drofnum]

The shiver is just an 1/2.0 battalion that costs no points. 

[Siorra]

The "Shiver" also doesn't gel well with current Fuethan. If you're flipping the tides and turn 1 is still run/charge, you ideally want to be playing a single drop army to determine the play order. Running 3 individual sharks won't leave a lot of room for other units in the 1-drop battalion. But all of this assumes that Fuethan isn't just these new Allopex rules - and looking at the other recent battletomes, that certainly could be the case.

[DocKeule]

How many of you go for the one drop?

My instinct now is that being able to use command abilities is too important so I go with the Hunters battalion most of the time and then put the rest in a Battle Regiment.

[That Guy]

8 hours ago, DocKeule said:

How many of you go for the one drop?

My instinct now is that being able to use command abilities is too important so I go with the Hunters battalion most of the time and then put the rest in a Battle Regiment.

Often I try to get a one or 2 drop yes. It just seems to work well for me. With such a fast army you get a big control over the flow of the game. Also if the Soulscryer works somewhat the same, i'm looking forward to Fuethan deepstrike a unit of 3 sharks..... maybe 2 of 3... sometime.. the alpha strike potential... or just the fact you can outflank later on it seems amazing for the sharks. 

[Liquidsteel]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:52 PM, DocKeule said:

Although frankly I see a lot of Fuethan shark spam lists coming up.

Yeah, I do wonder where the points will end up though.

Sharks did get a small buff with the coherency and the D3 damage on the harpoons, though I don't think it warrants the points increase we saw. The extra wounds are interesting, decent vs Mortals but then putting them at that 10+ bracket for certain rules.

330 for 2 now, compared to 340 for 2 x Stormdrake Guard. 10 more points for a pretty sizeable difference in power, though obviously points also need to reflect the traits of the army, of which IDK has strong ones with the tides and forgotten nightmares.

We did see some points changes between Dominion and the Battletomes being released, so who knows.

 

[DocKeule]

While we are still waiting on the new book I will have my first game in our regional league tomorrow. I was postponing it in hope the battletome would be out by the end of the month but well...

Only the faction is set for this league and the lists can be altered for every game so I will mainly use this to try new stuff and concepts that I haven't played much if at all.

I am going to play Seraphon tomorrow and I decided to go as shooty as I can with my collection:

My list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Dhom-Hain
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:

LEADERS
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (75)*
- General

UNITS
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**

BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (380)*
- Mount Trait: Ancient
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL: 1985/2000 WOUNDS: 111
LEADERS: 1/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400
REINFORCED UNITS: 1/4 DROPS: 5

If either sharks or turtles would habe been battleline by now I would probably had run the Reavers in one unit of 30 to really have an effect with allout attack. Now I am hoping to have the target within the Leviadon's bubble to get the +1 any way. 

I am not sure which subfaction I will face tomorrow but I am expecting the "-1 damage" because that is most common around here. That's why I went with a secdond turtle instead of another pair of sharks.

I am not sure if I have ever played my Reavers. I owned 20 since 2018 and now I am up to 30 with the new box. I am curious to see how they will do.

[DocKeule]

Back from the game and it went better than expected.

We played scenario No. 11 (I don't have the English name)

Deployment:

Spoiler

Round 1: 2-2

Spoiler

I had one more drop that my opponent but he gave me the first turn. I went with "Aggressive Expension" as my battle tactic and moved my whole army up. I made sure he would have to shoot the Ishlaen Guard in the Void Drum bubble and apart from two Reavers all my stuff could shoot.

Most of the smaller Skink unit in front of the pyramid died (the rest ran away), some of the 30 Skink block, the Stegadon and Kroxigors (upper right objective), and Sking Handlers in the Pyramid took a little damage. 

I could not burn any objectives yet so I got two points for my battle tactic.

In his turn my opponent had to use all his shooting on my eels and did some damage with magic. The left unit was whipped out the right one took no damage. He too went with aggressive expension and got two point. 

Round 2: 7 - 4
Beginning of round 2:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

I won the roll off and took the turn and chose to conquer his right objective (from my point of view). I ran my remaining eels from the right to the left to feed them to his shooting and moved everything up again. The Leviadon on the right hat the Kroxigors and the Stegadon in it's bubble.

The Reavers and turtle on the right flank took out the Stegadon in the shooting phase. On my left flank the Salamanders where killed and the bigger block of Skinks took some more damage. (He used "rally" in hist first two turns). Only the Leviadon on the right charged and took out the Kroxigors.

I took and burned the objective, killed a monster and got my tactic.

On his turn he chose "monstrous takeover" and moved his Bastiladon and the Engine up. Again he had to do most shooting into the eels (killing all but one) and got a few shots into the turtle. On the second activation the Engine whiffed (that would have hurt with little screen left). Then he charged the Engine (buffed to the max) in my left turtle and brought it down to one wound remaining. I fought back but even with using the Ghur command did only a few wounds.

He killed one unit of Reavers with his spells though.

At this point it was kind of clear that only a double turn for my opponent would give him a chance to stay in the game. 

End of round 2:

Spoiler

 Round 3:
 

Spoiler

I again won the roll off and went for "bring it down" on the Engine. One unit of Reavers got the job done and we called the game. 

The Reavers did a lot of damage in this game. The +1 to hit in the void drum and the re-rolls from Lotann were huge. Not sure how well this list would have done against a list with more damage spells (I avoided a lot of damage by staying away from tarrain most of the time) or with deep striking abilities. 

I had to keep the core of the army pretty compact to get the buffs on the Reavers. But I will try similar lists in the future if the points allow that.

Edited February 27, 2022 by DocKeule

[vinnyt]

Great report! Congrats on the win! 

[DocKeule]

Finally...

For better or worse.

[Sonnenspeer]

Could you decipher  the content page? Anything unexpected?

[DocKeule]

High tide is mentioned in one of the battle tactics. Other than that not much.

[GrimDork]

The battle tactics I can make out,

Assassins of the high tide, complete this BT if you destroy 2 units with idoneth deepkin unit during high tide.

Revenge of the Namarti, complete this BT if you destroy a hero or monster with a namarti unit.

Trapped in the undercurrents, complete this BT if you retreat and charge with 3 units.

Predators of the deep, can’t read fully but see allopexes mentioned?

Deny trespassers, can’t read but see mention of shipwreck?

Isharann defence, can’t read but see ISHARANN keyword and something about holding objectives.

[boyadventurer]

Battle tactics are:
[something] of the High Tide: Destroy 2 or more enemy units with IDK units under the effect of High Tide
Revenge of the Namarti: Kill an enemy hero or monster with attacks from a Namarti unit
Trapped in the Undercurrent: 3 (I think) IDK units retreat and charge in the same turn
Predators of the Deep: Something about picking an enemy model with 8(?) or more wounds that has wounds allocated to it. I assume it's something for Allopex to kill.
Deny Trespassers: Something about the shipwreck being more than 12" away from ...  I assume its like the BoC one - If an enemy if within 12" of it, you get the tactic if there's no longer enemies within 12" of it.
Isharan Defiance: Looks like pick an objective within the enemy territory, capture it with an Isharan unit

Edit: GrimDork beat me by a few seconds

Edited February 27, 2022 by boyadventurer

[DocKeule]

So far second and fourth tide stayed the same.

The rituals sound nice also. We will see if it is worth bringing the Tidecaster for a second ritual if you don't want to also reverse the tides.

[Siorra]

19 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

So far second and fourth tide stayed the same.

The rituals sound nice also. We will see if it is worth bringing the Tidecaster for a second ritual if you don't want to also reverse the tides.

The article implies that she will no longer be able to reverse the tides, this will be her deal instead. But it also mentions Ironrach having a "tide changing ability", so maybe Ironrach gives us flip-tide?

Either way it sounds like we'll want an Isharann unit of some sort for the new rituals, and if the Tidecaster gives us 2 then that could be strong! I wonder what the flood tide one is...

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, Siorra said:

The article implies that she will no longer be able to reverse the tides, this will be her deal instead. But it also mentions Ironrach having a "tide changing ability", so maybe Ironrach gives us flip-tide?

Either way it sounds like we'll want an Isharann unit of some sort for the new rituals, and if the Tidecaster gives us 2 then that could be strong! I wonder what the flood tide one is...

I didn't read it that way, rather it seems like it was just pointing out one thing that the Tidecaster does. But again its Warcom so who knows.

I wonder if Ironrach will allow you to do something similar to The Silent King in Necrons, making one of the tides last twice.

Definitely think 1 Isharran will be common, I presume we'll get an article dedicated to High Tide later this week.

I think it's too iconic to remove the strikes first, so I think/hope that will stay. Makes you wonder how powerful the Isharran ability will be on top of that.

[DocKeule]

The thing I would deem the most important is the "forgotten nightmares" ability.

That is the one thing I hope they don't touch.

[Rhetoric]

Super cool with the new rituals.  Army wide +1 to Run and Charge is so, so good.  I’m very excited to see the whole book.  As long as Forgotten Nightmares stays the same I think I will be happy.  I think the Allegiance ability has kept the IDK 1.0 tome so viable for so long. 

[Kitsumy]

rumours says

 

 

tides get no change.

ritual on turn1 is inmune to shoting outside 12". turn3 5++ on namarti.

keep forgotten nightmares.

 

so every rule previewed and ritual seems pretty lackluster to me but.... the inmune shotting seems too op, opressive and unfun against most of armyes and i dislike it. would prefer to get better overall rules but 0 broken rules as this inmune or atack first

 

[DocKeule]

That would be a carbon copy of the Kruleboyz rule. That would surprise me especially if it would come on top of an unchanged forgotten nightmares.

[Liquidsteel]

Will be interesting if it's "not visible" or "not able to be targetted". The second means Sentinels can't get around it.

[DocKeule]

The Eidolons got some minor changes on their profile.