AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Vasshpit]

I really do feel like the vulture should've been on a smaller base. 

@Ganigumo Good looking lot!👍

[Someravella]

Hi!

I have a question about companions. I noticed that the core rule 22.3.1 says that companions are treated as mounts for the purpose of rules.

My doubts are:

1) Does that mean that companion grots (killaboss' grot, shaman's grot, killbow's crew) do not benefit from "venom-encrusted weapons"?

This also affects Mannok's missile weapon. I know that the sloggoth's grots do not benefit from VEW because the warscroll does not have the ORRUK keyword.

Someone in reddit said that the warscrolls say that companions are PART OF THE MODEL or treated as a SINGLE MODEL, and thus they have VEW, but I think that this is done to consider that the grot model on its own base cannot count as an additional model when disputing objectives, cannot be the target of attacks, etc.

2) Does that mean that the Snatchaboss ability "snatch and grab" does not affect models with any kind of companion (regardless if they are an *actual* mount)? For instance, Lord-imperatant accompanied by a gryph-hound or another Kruleboyz Killaboss with its grot. What is even worse, considering the rule 22.3.1, this could also mean that models with a companion in the same base (for instance, Mannok and its crow) cannot be the target of this ability!

Just when I thought that things couldn't get any worse for Kruleboyz...

Edited July 30, 2022 by Someravella

[Vasshpit]

Hey y'all. Anyone have any experience with rockguts in their lists? Thematically I rather use fellwater but not down with the models. 

[Ganigumo]

Got smashed at the event and went 1-4.

Game 1 was in the presence of Idols against Idoneth, probably the worst matchup possible, especially on that battleplan. I could only shoot at his namarti, and My boltboyz couldn't spike high enough to ever chew through the 20 man block which kept healing up. His idols were sharks and an akhelian king which hung out in the back, mine were my boltboyz and sludgeraker. lost 31-10.

Game 2 was against Ironjawz, he didn't have pigs and it was a double maw krusha Choppas list. Gave him the turn and he charged in, I made the mistake of not screening well enough and his maw krusha got into one of my units of boltboyz after killing the hobgrot screen on the charge. I then killed both maw krushas on the counter and proceded to slowly clean up for the rest of the game, with shackles blocking the brutes from getting in. won 25-17

 

Game 3 was against ironjawz again, Ironsunz list with one MK (with arcane tome + master of magic) 2 units of pigs and some 'ardboyz & brutes. Gave him the turn and screened him out well on the first turn, with the Maw krusha only getting to kill hobgrots. Then on the bottom of turn 1 I tried to cast shackles but the MoM MK unbound it, then had to throw all 12 buffed boltboyz, the killbow, the vulture and the sludgeraker (so pretty much the entire army) into the Maw Krusha only to barely kill it and be caught in a bad position thanks to the Ironsunz command ability and was cleaned up over the rest of the game. I lost 24-9

 

Game 4 vs nighthaunt, let him go first and he moved up to take the objectives, I moved forward with my monsters and took them, then won the priority roll and took the double to pull my army back into position (I was out of range of doing any relevant damage and my sludgeraker and killaboss were exposed). I screened the hit well on the bottom of 2 only to get doubled and have my army torn apart. lost 17-29

 

Game 5 vs nighthaunt, the prize of gallet. let him go first and he rushed the active objective, only doing minor damage to my hobgrots. On my turn I moved up and tore a couple units on the objective with my sludgeraker and one unit of boltboyz, with my vulture engaging the boat hero. I rolled the double and chose the BT to kill the half dead boatman with my general (killaboss on vulture) only for him to completely whiff and only do like 1 damage, after that he got torn apart by a bunch of small nighthaunt heroes, then in t3 I moved the sludgeraker forward to take out some of the heroes, only for kurdoss to do like 15 rend 3 damage to it. My second unit of boltboyz basically failed to roll any relevant damage all game, even with a shaman babying them. I ended up losing 23-9

Overall thoughts:

• I really liked the Master of magic, arcane tome, sneaky miasma, fast'un killaboss. Its damage was a bit of a letdown at times, but I found that the vulture was always contributing something as a utility piece, between being the only fast unit in the army and being able to double up on Command abilities
• The overall damage of the army is incredibly spiky, which makes scoring difficult since you can't rely on it.
• Battle tactics are not friendly to kruleboyz at all. Head-to-head is nearly impossible if you're not in big yellerz or take something like bounty hunter gutrippaz,  Barge through enemy lines and desecrate their lands can be diffucult because of how slow the army is and Outmuscle and gaining momentum are tough because of inconsistent damage AND low speed.
• The army bleeds VP in the first few rounds because of how slow it is and how you need to castle up to protect your pieces. which means you're almost always playing from behind
• The army is desperate for CP, with almost no way to generate extra or use them efficiently, because it has no other tricks available to it. Kurdoss was rough since stealing CP was crippling, and the other army had olynder who also blocked a key command at one point.
• Fragile castles are not a good recipe for success.
• Killbow didn't contribute much, it nailed a maw krusha in game 2 for like 7 damage and isn't good for much except zoning out deepstrikes against nighthaunt but for 130 points its better than gutrippaz at doing that, and doesn't take up much less space. Would've been good against gargants who are starting to put up results again. I liked having it since I didn't hate the idea of using it as a screen and it helps with certain matchups
• Hobgrots impressed me. They did more damage over the 5 games than the gutrippaz did just through chip damage with grenades and sometimes getting to fight.
• Gutrippaz were literally just 180 point screens, 20 wounds isn't enough to make them anything but paper.
• Sludgeraker hits hard, but can't take a hit. 8" move isn't fantastic when he needs to hide behind units and also be in buff ranges but I was always able to get him into combat.
• Another melee threat would've been nice to combo with kruleboyz Waaagh! but I'm not sure how I would fit it into the list. Maybe a mirebrute, but move 5 would be a problem, especially since I can't use sneaky miasma on him.
• Egomaniak wouldn't have helped much based on the way I played, but maybe I would've played differently if I had it.
• Shackles are fantastic at controlling aggressive armies, if you can cast it. It might've turned game 3 into a win for me if I could've got it off
• If I had known I was fighting these armies, I would have gone big yellerz since I fought melee focused armies for all 5 games, although it did help against Idoneth. I'm not sure if this is a meta shift or bad luck, but most of the armies present were melee focused.
• Points are too high, and the army gets spread way too thin, I desperately needed an extra screen or two or some other utility pieces, despite barely having enough damage unless I spiked high on rolls.

I've got another 2 dayer in 2 weeks and I need to submit the list this weekend. Haven't decided what I'm taking just yet but I might bring KB again, I'd probably struggle to paint up the pieces for my other armies I need since the GHB changes (like grots or screamers) before the event. I had a good time playing KB at least, even if I got thrashed.

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

I've got another 2 dayer in 2 weeks and I need to submit the list this weekend. Haven't decided what I'm taking just yet but I might bring KB again, I'd probably struggle to paint up the pieces for my other armies I need since the GHB changes (like grots or screamers) before the event. I had a good time playing KB at least, even if I got thrashed.

I may be a little biased towards this thanks to my local meta, but I think shooting isn't as prominent as it was last GHB. SCE, DoK, Idoneth, Seraphon, KO, Cities and some Sylvaneth lists (aka the order factions) are the ones that tend to have some shooting on their lists, but outside of KO and some Idoneth lists I'm not seeing list fully focused on shooting.

Do you have more hobgrotz? Maybe you could change your sub to Yellers, reduce the gutrippaz to a MSU unit (to fill battleline) and put 2 units of 10 hobgrotz in place of the other 10 Gutrippaz you had? Hobgrotz work much better as a screen this GHB and 2 units should give you a better maneuverability.

[Ganigumo]

I've only got 20 hobgrots at the moment, I've got some gitz stuff I could bring in though to fill the spot, like spider riders, and if I'm in yellerz I could do 3/9/3 boltboyz and maybe cut a shaman to squeeze something else in.

[woolf]

@Ganigumo thx for sharing the report! sounds a bit rough but the NH book is just head n shoulders above us so quite a bit uphill. I would just give it another go probably before changing too much. Big Yellers migth be a good call as shooting armies are less prominent now and just focusing on tearing melee apart is probably best course even if expectation is likely 3-2 at best

[Lavieth]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:18 PM, Vasshpit said:

Hey y'all. Anyone have any experience with rockguts in their lists? Thematically I rather use fellwater but not down with the models. 

I am getting really close to finishing my Sylvaneth army and looking at Krukeboyz as the next and I've been wondering about the effectiveness of Fellwater's in a Kruleboyz list. In preparation I've picked up 2 of the Warcry boxes, 1/2 of Dominion and the 2 limited character minis. 

There seemed to be a lot of excitement about grinnin' blades when the change was made, I'm wondering if that is still the case after more people have played some games under the new GHB or is big yellers still the "go to" faction?

It would be a huge boost for this army if the pot grot was the one who had the poison/elixir rule. This way the Shaman could still cast and you'd just pick 1 of the options before the game started. Then like the stab grot you'd lose the bonus if he died. 

Thanks to those of you posting in this thread. It's been great to read over it and prepare for this eventual army.

[Rors]

I feel like if unbinding was changed in the core rules to require line of sight, grinning blades could become a really competitive magic army. The spells seem good, just not the casters. That would change if they could cast without fear of unbinds though.

On a more practical note, I saw a combo in a talk with AoS Coach where the general can pass off wounds to the incarnate on a 4+.

Seems point heavy but a very resilient centre of the army that can't be retreated from seems in theory like a good way to both protect the boltboyz and let a sludgedraker keep punching for longer.

[Arzalyn]

21 hours ago, Lavieth said:

There seemed to be a lot of excitement about grinnin' blades when the change was made, I'm wondering if that is still the case after more people have played some games under the new GHB or is big yellers still the "go to" faction?

It is still a little early to tell for sure, blades ability is really meta dependent and the meta is still shaping for this new GHB. By what I saw so far the meta seems to moving away from mass shooting, which make Grinning blades less good. I wouldn't be surprised if shooting comes back when the Lumineth and Tzeentch tomes drop, as both factions had pretty strong shooting before.

13 hours ago, Rors said:

On a more practical note, I saw a combo in a talk with AoS Coach where the general can pass off wounds to the incarnate on a 4+.

Seems point heavy but a very resilient centre of the army that can't be retreated from seems in theory like a good way to both protect the boltboyz and let a sludgedraker keep punching for longer.

This looks pretty interesting, I'm just not sure if it wouldn't change the sludgeraker to a more proactive role (fighting with krondspire to still be in range of Egomaniak) and make harder for him to support the boltboyz.

[Smash]

 - Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
     - Army Type: Kruleboyz
     - Subfaction: Grinnin' Blades
     - Grand Strategy: Waaagh!
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)***
     - General
     - Command Traits: Supa Sneaky
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un
     - Spells: Nasty Hex
BATTLELINE
Gutrippaz (180)*
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
Gutrippaz (180)*
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
OTHER
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
CORE BATTALIONS
*Bounty Hunters
**Expert Conquerors
***Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

The only units myself and other people report not underperforming are the hobgrotz and the mirebrute. Why not spam them, with the added benefit of not getting totally shafted by shooting because of grinning blades. 

My biggest issue here is actually buying the models for this list, as I would not enjoy painting 70 hobgrots and 6 mirebrutes only fit in this one list. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Smash

[Ganigumo]

Just now, Smash said:

 - Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
     - Army Type: Kruleboyz
     - Subfaction: Grinnin' Blades
     - Grand Strategy: Waaagh!
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Breaka-boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)***
     - General
     - Command Traits: Supa Sneaky
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un
     - Spells: Nasty Hex
BATTLELINE
Gutrippaz (180)*
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
Gutrippaz (180)*
     - Gutrippa Boss
     - Wicked Hacka
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
OTHER
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
Hobgrot Slittaz (80)***
CORE BATTALIONS
*Bounty Hunters
**Expert Conquerors
***Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

The only units myself and other people report not underperforming are the hobgrotz and the mirebrute. Why not spam them, with the added benefit of not getting totally shafted by shooting because of grinning blades. 

My biggest issue here is actually buying the models for this list, as I would not enjoy painting 70 hobgrots and 6 mirebrutes only fit in this one list. 

Sludgerakers generally don't underperform either, but if you're not using it for the buff a mirebrute is probably a better pick.

for a couple other considerations for this list, the sloggoth would be fine here, it generally doesn't do much for KB who focus on mortal wounds, but mirebrutes are one of the few units that really like having it around. Kragnos would help the slow mirebrutes get stuck in, and a dankhold troggboss from gitz can give all your troggs in an area around him (including mirebrutes) reroll 1's to hit.

[Rors]

20 hours ago, Smash said:

The only units myself and other people report not underperforming are the hobgrotz and the mirebrute. Why not spam them, with the added benefit of not getting totally shafted by shooting because of grinning blades. 

My biggest issue here is actually buying the models for this list, as I would not enjoy painting 70 hobgrots and 6 mirebrutes only fit in this one list. 

I was having a near identical thought process the other day.

The list I made was very similar too, only I didn't go so hard on hobgrots.

Instead I added in methdobby and an ally dankhold trog. I think Dobby's +1 hit aura really benefits mirebrutes and the danktrog gives a re-roll 1s to all trogs in 18.

That combo means you have less screens but the mirebrutes are hitting on 2s re-roll 1s.

The dankhold trog is pricey for his stat line but given how aggressively under costed mirebrutes are and the huge boost they get in combat through those buffs, I think it's a worthwhile consideration.

The mirebrutes can't get shot off and point for point, they'll win against a vast majority of units in combat.

Using the stats hammer app, a 180 point mirebrute in this army will do a rounded off average of 11 unsaved wou  D's against a 2+ save and 23 against a - save unit. For 180 points!! I often play with stats hammer and I don't think I've seen damage output that good for that cheap before, although I'm not considering the cost of Dobby and the dankhold in this calculation.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Rors

[woolf]

I actually tried a list with 2 mirebrute, dobby, 3 rockguts and a troggboss and yes they slapped pretty hard. challenge I found was only delivery given how slow they are. Played a casual game vs a soulbligth list.

also wrt to Dobby I think he is underrated, we focus so much on boltboyz and mortals so he kinda gets forgotten. But for sludgeraker, mirebrutes and even gutrippaz I think the hit bonus does help quite a bit and it stacks up. in particular going against things such as NH when weigth of dice is important

[Smash]

@Rors I have also Tweaked the list a bit. Realy think dobby would be a nice inclusion! As for the dankhold, I've tried him before on a smaller scale (fewer mirebrutes, but som rockgut allies). Never felt the impact and would rather just have one more mirebrute. 

And IMO these hobgrots are going to be the point getters in the list. Pregame I am going to look for a teleport into an enemy objective to steal/contest and maybe even with a dirty trick to lure his units away I can easily score one of his hard to reach objectives. 

Also I've been thinking of deploying hobgrots in a half circle around my mirebrutes to force anything that charges to tag a mirebrute as well, but without far reaching weapon unable to hit my mirebrutes.

Last thought i have is maybe fitting in a lauchon to have some mobility on my arcane tome mirebrute, to snatch an objective or reach a valuable backliner. Mostly to have the utility and threat to make my opponent play safer. 

 

[Rors]

Lauchon mirebrute wizard is a cool idea. It certainly helps with the lack of mobility, which is definitely where the mirebrute has a weakness

[woolf]

3 hours ago, Rors said:

Lauchon mirebrute wizard is a cool idea. It certainly helps with the lack of mobility, which is definitely where the mirebrute has a weakness

ok so one with tome and one with fast'un, I think we are getting somewhere! Also, I really like how we all are making an effort to make our book work guys 😂😂 lets keep it up!

[Ganigumo]

I've got another 2 day event next weekend, with list submission due sunday night and I still haven't settled on what i'm playing yet 😅. I'm a bit tempted to bring troggs or leadbelchers but i'll probably stick to kruleboyz.

I threw this together for big yellers but i'm still a bit unsure about giving up the protection grinnin blades gives.

Quote

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma

Battleline
9 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (360)*
- Reinforced x 2
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*

Units
5 x Spider Riders (100)**
5 x Spider Riders (100)**
5 x Spider Riders (100)**

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)*
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)**

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
Drops: 3
 

Its similar to my last list, but I've squeezed in a couple more units because I can skip the gutrippaz. I don't really like going up to 3 drops for the mirebrute, but I think I need another threat on the table.

[Rors]

What's your intention with the spider riders? Mobile screens?

In general, I think big yellers bolt boy lists have kinda been solved from what I've seen. You have a huge disadvantage against anything that has also skewed into shooting but at 30 inch range. You'll absolutely murder stuff like beastclaw raiders before they can break through the screens.

It seems to me that big yellers aren't bad exactly, it's just they're more prone to match up differentials than the average list.

So the meta at your tournament is going to make a big difference.

Unfortunately I think grinning blades is also a skew list by nature, just the inverse. Grinning blades love alpha shooting lists.

[Ganigumo]

Grinnin blades is definitely a more balanced list. You still get a lot of what a yellers list would offer while also getting much needed protection for your boltboyz.

The problem is that the gutrippa tax is a big deal, especially for a weak army that struggles to fit what it needs into a list.

[Holy_Diver]

11 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

The problem is that the gutrippa tax is a big deal, especially for a weak army that struggles to fit what it needs into a list.

Exactly as I told you a few weeks ago, grinning blades despite the new update does not solve the big problems that this alliance has. The only useful things (already tested of course) of this sub-faction are: Nasty Hex, hobgrots, Boltboyz and Mirebrute.

That said I would avoid vulture and ballista like death and aim for the 3x combo Mirebrute (general with Egomaniak and tome arcane) plus Hobgrots and Boltboyz. It won't be a 4-1 list, sure, but at least if you encounter armies with "strike first" you avoid losing in the second round, imho.

ps: also consider the incarnate, as a flying stopper and bonus to cast/dispell.

[Ganigumo]

Yeah I was expecting to see more shooting than I did, which is why I thought grinnin blades would be good.

I definitely don't have time to get 3 mirebrutes together by next weekend so thats out, but I do have 1.

I was pretty impressed with the vulture boss.

When it comes to the ballista I realized while playing that I don't mind using it as a screen at 130 points. Its a bit pricy for that job, but still 50 points cheaper than gutrippaz and actually does something in certain matchups.

 

I might try brewing a few lists with the incarnate and see how I like it.

[Ganigumo]

This is what I locked in as my list.

 

Quote

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*

Battleline
9 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (360)*
- Reinforced x 2
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**
5 x Spider Riders (100)**
- Allies
5 x Spider Riders (100)**
- Allies
3 x Rippa's Snarlfangs (70)**
- Allies

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 128
Drops: 3
 

I've got lots of screens now, and a couple pieces that are more mobile. I wasn't sure about the second shaman in this list, I was torn between that or a ballista for gargants or as an extra screen, but this gives me a shot at the triumph.
I'm not too excited about going to 3 drops, Kruleboyz REALLY want to be able to decide who goes second in this army, but the army composition makes it hard, with most of our good heroes taking leader slots.

[Malakree]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:53 PM, Someravella said:

Hi!

I have a question about companions. I noticed that the core rule 22.3.1 says that companions are treated as mounts for the purpose of rules.

My doubts are:

1) Does that mean that companion grots (killaboss' grot, shaman's grot, killbow's crew) do not benefit from "venom-encrusted weapons"?

This also affects Mannok's missile weapon. I know that the sloggoth's grots do not benefit from VEW because the warscroll does not have the ORRUK keyword.

Someone in reddit said that the warscrolls say that companions are PART OF THE MODEL or treated as a SINGLE MODEL, and thus they have VEW, but I think that this is done to consider that the grot model on its own base cannot count as an additional model when disputing objectives, cannot be the target of attacks, etc.

2) Does that mean that the Snatchaboss ability "snatch and grab" does not affect models with any kind of companion (regardless if they are an *actual* mount)? For instance, Lord-imperatant accompanied by a gryph-hound or another Kruleboyz Killaboss with its grot. What is even worse, considering the rule 22.3.1, this could also mean that models with a companion in the same base (for instance, Mannok and its crow) cannot be the target of this ability!

Just when I thought that things couldn't get any worse for Kruleboyz...

The companion weapon is an attack profile. It is counted as a mount therefore it's attack profiles don't benefit from vew. 

By the same token models with companions are considered to have mounts and thus cannot be targeted by the snatcha boss. This would also apply to weapons with crew.

[Ganigumo]

wrong thread, oops.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ganigumo
Wrong Thread XD