AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Acrozatarim]

My outline for a non-Yellers 2k list is currently something like this:

315 Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker

170 Killaboss on Gnashtoof

105 Swampcalla Shaman

105 Swampcalla Shaman

180 Breakaboss on Mirebrute

 

180 10 x Gutrippaz

180 10 x Gutrippaz

180 10 x Gutrippaz

240 6 x Boltboyz

130 Beast-skewer Killbow

80 10 x Hobgrot Slittaz

80 10 x Hobgrot Slittaz

 

Which leaves 55 points for an Endless Spell or whatnot. It's not horrifically efficient or tuned; could probably do with shuffling to add another Killbow at least. (Edit: Or drop the Mirebrute and a Hobgrot Unit for another Sludgeraker).

But it brings plenty of bodies and the pieces needed for a poison-generating machine. One Swampcalla babysits the Boltboyz, another scoots along with the Gutrippaz to boost whichever unit is best positioned for it; either casts a spell opportunistically if the Boltboyz need to move or poison/elixir recipients are in melee already.

Probably throw Amulet of Destiny on the Snatchaboss, Arcane Tome on the Killaboss, Supa Sneaky as the command trait to redeploy a Gutrippaz unit or the Mirebrute as a threat. Not quite sure yet how the mount traits stack up; Fast 'Un on the Mirebrute lets it hurtle around like a cruise missile, Loud 'Un or Mean 'Un make the Sludgeraker nastier in melee, Smelly 'Un makes it more survivable.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Acrozatarim

[Stux]

While we're doing lists, this is my plan for a Big Waaagh:

Megaboss	140
Skumdrekk	320
Killaboss on Gnashtoof	170
Swampcalla	105
Swampcalla	105
Gutrippaz x20	360
Brutes x5	160
Brutes x5	160
Boltboyz x6	240
Boltboyz x6	240

2k points on the nose. Killaboss would be general with Arcane Tome and probably Egomaniak. Amulet of Destiny from battalion on the Megaboss.

[Ganigumo]

Sludgeraker damage is high enough to function as a proper hammer, and for its points it seems very strong.

With just a +1 to hit it does 15.85 vs a 4+, 11.07 vs a 2+ and 20.17 vs a 6+, plus they can take artifacts, mount traits, and the shaman buff (damage calculator wouldn't apply both the shamans buff and the sludgeraker one and I don't want to do the math on paper)

10 gutrippas with a sludgeraker and shaman buff only do around 10.83 to a 4+ (honestly their non mortal damage is pretty negligible though) 

2-3 sludgerakers is probably very viable, and might be the way to go competitively.

[Sivyre]

1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

Sludgeraker damage is high enough to function as a proper hammer, and for its points it seems very strong.

With just a +1 to hit it does 15.85 vs a 4+, 11.07 vs a 2+ and 20.17 vs a 6+, plus they can take artifacts, mount traits, and the shaman buff (damage calculator wouldn't apply both the shamans buff and the sludgeraker one and I don't want to do the math on paper)

10 gutrippas with a sludgeraker and shaman buff only do around 10.83 to a 4+ (honestly their non mortal damage is pretty negligible though) 

2-3 sludgerakers is probably very viable, and might be the way to go competitively.

Need the math on mirebrute + 3 boltboyz because this is the alternative to sludgeraker in tweaks of functionality and points 

 don’t know how you folks do the number crunching but I always love reading them haha

[Ganigumo]

25 minutes ago, Sivyre said:

Need the math on mirebrute + 3 boltboyz because this is the alternative to sludgeraker in tweaks of functionality and points 

 don’t know how you folks do the number crunching but I always love reading them haha

Everything here is on +1 to hit except the 3 boltboyz (since you need to use a cp for it, rather than an faq'd sloggoth) boltboyz are using hasty shot and the mirebrute is getting the +2 attacks.

the damage between them is pretty close, but the sludgeraker also has the added support benefit of buffing nearby unit's venom.

[Sivyre]

15 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Everything here is on +1 to hit except the 3 boltboyz (since you need to use a cp for it, rather than an faq'd sloggoth) boltboyz are using hasty shot and the mirebrute is getting the +2 attacks.

the damage between them is pretty close, but the sludgeraker also has the added support benefit of buffing nearby unit's venom.

Thanks mate! The numbers are very comparable indeed. I have 1 sludge and 1 mire in my planned to be list, but after I drop gobsprakk I will do either a 2nd mirebrute and 3 more boltboyz for a total of 15 or a 2nd sludgeraker. There’s arguments to be made for either choice and I think both are going to prove more worthy than gobsprakk.

[Rachmani]

I think one Sludgeraker just wins here. Question is about the second one, though and whether it can outdo the bolt boys + mire brute in terms flexibility here. Still interesting. The Sludgeraker is definitely one of the highlights in our book.

Personally I’d call this the “core” for a (Big Yeller) Kruleboys army.

Sludgeraker 315

Swampcalla 105

20 Gutrippaz 360

2x 6 Boltboys (or 9 & 3) 480

Killbow 130

(+1 Killaboss, but which one is not set in stone)

That’s 1390 + 110/170/240, so 1500/1560/1630 which leaves 500/440/370 points open for shenanigans. So depending on which Killaboss you take you have a good or not so good amount of spare points left.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Rachmani

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Rachmani said:

I think one Sludgeraker just wins here. Question is about the second one, though and whether it can outdo the bolt boys + mire brute in terms flexibility here. Still interesting. The Sludgeraker is definitely one of the highlights in our book.

Personally I definitely think the extra sludgeraker is worth it. The aura is only 12" so being able to have multiple areas of power on the map is a big deal, plus the sludgeraker is actually a monster unlike the mirebrute so they get the added benefit of monstrous rampages.

Sludgerakers pump up the damage on those boltboyz as well, plus boltboyz want to be using the hasty shot profile when they can so having them tail the sludgeraker makes a lot of sense.

Consider a big yellers list (really isn't a reason to play the other two unless you're running 0 boltboyz or ballistas) with:

2x sludgerakers

2x shamans

2x6 boltboyz

1x10 gutrippas

2x ballista

3x10 hobgrots

This list would have 2 centers of power around the sludgerakers, while being able to project power through the ballistas and boltboyz. Gutrippaz and hobgrots just serve as screens and objective holders.

 

The list I'm actually probably going to run is a bit similar but way more focused on gutrippaz because I like the models:

Big yellers?

2x sludgeraker

2x shaman

1x killaboss on vulture

2x20 gutrippaz

1x3 boltboyz + 1x10 hobgrots or 1x10 gutrippaz

I don't think its better, but I get to play with the models i like more.

[Malakree]

What are peoples opinions on the Shaman since it doesn't stack with the Sludgeraker. Would you still take both, does having a Sludgeraker make the 2nd/3rd shaman less good in peoples opinion?

[Acrozatarim]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

What are peoples opinions on the Shaman since it doesn't stack with the Sludgeraker. Would you still take both, does having a Sludgeraker make the 2nd/3rd shaman less good in peoples opinion?

It doesn't stack as in you don't get the extra Sludgeraker MW on 5s, but you can affect a unit with both a Shaman (so it MWs on a 5 and a 6) and a Sludgeraker (so it gets +1 MW on a 6) simultaneously.

So stacking both on one unit effectively triples that unit's MW output.

 

Some of the maths mentioned above is a bit off, I think? 10 Gutrippaz is 21 attacks, so with both Sludge and Shaman they're doing 10.5 MW + 0.875 wounds vs a 4+, for a total of 11.375 wounds.

The Mirebrute's also getting an average of +4 attacks rather than just +2. I haven't dug into the rest of the numbers because I'm too lazy

One concern I have with Sludgerakers is their fragility. Slightly more wounds than a Breakaboss but much less sustain - they don't have the innate regen, and they're below the crucial Bravery breakpoint at 6 compared to a Breakaboss's 7 for Heroic Recovery, so they'll fail to heal more often than not. I really feel like they need a ward save, which makes me really leery of taking Skumdrekk over a generic Snatchaboss.

[Ganigumo]

4 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Some of the maths mentioned above is a bit off, I think? 10 Gutrippaz is 21 attacks, so with both Sludge and Shaman they're doing 10.5 MW + 0.875 wounds vs a 4+, for a total of 11.375 wounds.

The Mirebrute's also getting an average of +4 attacks rather than just +2. I haven't dug into the rest of the numbers because I'm too lazy

One concern I have with Sludgerakers is their fragility. Slightly more wounds than a Breakaboss but much less sustain - they don't have the innate regen, and they're below the crucial Bravery breakpoint at 6 compared to a Breakaboss's 7 for Heroic Recovery, so they'll fail to heal more often than not. I really feel like they need a ward save, which makes me really leery of taking Skumdrekk over a generic Snatchaboss.

Yeah i missed the captains attack on the gutrippaz and thought the troggoth only got +2. Gutrippaz still need a shaman and sludgeraker to get good damage though. Haven't gotten any games in yet, but i'm a bit concerned that the restrictions on the shamans poisons are going to make it too difficult to buff gutrippaz reliably.

As far as recovery goes though the troggoth will be hurting itself and has a lower number of total wounds. Plus the troll regeneration is better than it sounds, i have a troggoth army and the number of times its actually been useful is incredibly small. 7 is better than 6 for heroic recovery, although neither is particularly consistent at it.

[idn0971]

3 hours ago, Stux said:

While we're doing lists, this is my plan for a Big Waaagh:

Megaboss	140
Skumdrekk	320
Killaboss on Gnashtoof	170
Swampcalla	105
Swampcalla	105
Gutrippaz x20	360
Brutes x5	160
Brutes x5	160
Boltboyz x6	240
Boltboyz x6	240

2k points on the nose. Killaboss would be general with Arcane Tome and probably Egomaniak. Amulet of Destiny from battalion on the Megaboss.

If you are taking ironjawz you are going to want at least one warchanter to buff the brutes and get the 2 big waagh points. I'd take one instead of the megaboss personally

[Stux]

36 minutes ago, idn0971 said:

If you are taking ironjawz you are going to want at least one warchanter to buff the brutes and get the 2 big waagh points. I'd take one instead of the megaboss personally

Yeah, I think you're probably right in terms of optimising the list. I happen to already have a Megaboss and no Warchanter though hah

Also, I'd need to factor in the new Megaboss ability to have command abilities affect two units. With him I can Mighty Destroyers/All Out Attack two units, so I think its a less obvious change than it might first appear, given how few units the Warchanter would be buffing in this build.

Missing out on the Waaagh points is definitely an issue though. Annoying that no Kruleboyz units contribute additional points.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Stux

[Rachmani]

1 hour ago, Acrozatarim said:

One concern I have with Sludgerakers is their fragility. Slightly more wounds than a Breakaboss but much less sustain - they don't have the innate regen, and they're below the crucial Bravery breakpoint at 6 compared to a Breakaboss's 7 for Heroic Recovery, so they'll fail to heal more often than not. I really feel like they need a ward save, which makes me really leery of taking Skumdrekk over a generic Snatchaboss.

I feel the same. Goes for the KB on Vulcha, too. So playing makes them rather predictable. You basically have to take Egomaniak, but that costs you „Super Sneaky“ which I think will be really, really good.

[spenson]

So I had my first 2 games with the Kruleboyz

The list:

Big yellers

Gobsprakk, the mouth of Mork

snatchaboss on sludgeraker beast

swampcalla shaman and pot-grot

swampcalla shaman and pot-grot

10 gutrippaz

10 gutrippaz

9 man-skewer boltboyz

6 man-skewer boltboyz

10 hobgrot slittaz

beast-skewer killbow

Both games were against the classic host duplicitous Tzeentch list :

Archaon

Kairos

Blue scribes

Magister on disk

3x3 Screamers

Umbral Spellportal

Emerald Lifeswarm

The first game was Tooth & nails and things didn't go very well. I lose the roll to pick the attacker and my opponent take the edge with an arcane terrain. They deployed archaon close to the center on the left while the screamers were trying to protect Kairos from the teleportation of my command trait (Supa Sneaky) on the right. The goal of my deployment was to cover as much ground as I could while preventing the Tzeentch players from placing the base of Archaon in melee range of any interesting target (his base is gigantic).

I teleported the nine boltboyz 9" away from the screamers, within 20" of Kairos but thanks to his allegiance he moved Kairos 6" away out of my range and Arcahon 6" closer to my army.

My opponent rolls VERY WELL for his destiny die (four 6's and three 5's). Since there were no reserves, I couldn't use disappearin' act and chose to use Noisy Racket instead.

I take the first turn and fail all my spells. I think I managed to cast 1 spell during that game. Since I'm out of range of Kairos I kill the general to prevent the summon of 6 more screamers. Unfortunately, Tzeentch has 2 spells that can summon a chaos spawn and thus prevented any unleash hell during that game. Overall I held out pretty well during the first three turns and ended up 15 vs 25 (this is a 13/7 loss in tournament I think) but Archaon alone tabled me on turn 4.

______________________

The second battleplan was Savage Gain. Our deployments were roughly the same but this time Kairos couldn't hide from the boltboyz. My opponent rolls his destiny die and get five 6's, three 5's and one 4 (!!!). I try to disappearin act on the blue scribes and a unit of screamers but fail both.

The only spell I managed to cast one turn 1 was flaming weapon on Gobsprakk (I wanted to move the snatchaboss in range of the boltboyz for more MW). 

The boltboyz roll very well against Kairos (10 MW + 5 saves) but he uses 4 destiny dices to survive. 

The rest of the game was basically a repeat of game 1, I failed to kill Kairos on turn 1, couldn't remove Archaon's ward and I was basically powerless while I watched him destroy my whole army because of the amount of heal he gets.

______________________

The games were fun, my opponent is a cool person but damn that's such a tough match up in a tournament setting. One of my biggest gripe with the shooting elements of the army is that you have no way of extending your threat range. If your opponent starts the turn 27.1" away from you, you have no way to shoot them (if we exclude the teleport command trait).

The army is also made of papier-mâché and crumbles almost too easily.

The RNG wasn't with me today but it wouldn't have really affected the end result of any of the games.

Edited September 19, 2021 by spenson

[Malakree]

@spenson Archaon Kairos is pretty fricking busted right now so I'm not sure it's a great example  That said, you look low on wounds to me with less than great screening potential. Do you think having more/larger units of Gutripperz might have helped instead of the double big beasty, it's 615 points for 28 squishy wounds.

Also, do the tzeentch spells which summon the spawns require line of sight? If so couldn't you cover in mud your boltboyz and stop him from using it on them?

[spenson]

Regarding the big beasts I think Gobsprakk is almost mandatory unless you want to get bullied by Tzeentch, DoK or Lumineth that make like 50% of the meta. I could replace the snatchaboss with more troops but since you want to have as few drops as possible you can't really add more units (only up to 5 for a battle regiment). Gutrippaz die so quickly to any threat that I wouldn't really see myself playing bigger units. Also he's not that squishy, you have 14 wounds 4+/5++ for 315 points.

The issue with covered in mud is that they need to be in cover (unless I msread the rule) and you usually have very few ways to get cover on standard tournament tables.

Overall I'll need to do more tests. New week is Lumineth, probably sons of Behemat the week after.

Edited September 19, 2021 by spenson

[Ganigumo]

6 minutes ago, spenson said:

Regarding the big beasts I think Gobsprakk is almost mandatory unless you want to get bullied by Tzeentch, DoK or Lumineth that make like 50% of the meta. I could replace the snatchaboss with more troops but since you want to have as few drops as possible you can't really add more units (only up to 5 for a battle regiment). Gutrippaz die so quickly to any threat that I wouldn't really see myself playing bigger units. Also he's not that squishy, you have 14 wounds 4+/5++ for 315 points.

The issue with covered in mud is that they need to be in cover (unless I msread the rule) and you usually have very few ways to get cover on standard tournament tables.

Overall I'll need to do more tests. New week is Lumineth, probably sons of Behemat the week after.

Gobsprakk's good unbind is only once a game, and average of 3d6 is like 10.5

[AlmGandix3]

Maybe the murknob is really the way to go for anti magic. 5+ isn't much but I remember how much it saved my Dispossessed back in the day when they had the banner.

Magic is definitely a problem but I really don't think gobsprakk is the answer.

Man with the post above I really seem like a gobsprakk hater😅. Scratch that I am until they buff his warscroll 😁.

Edited September 19, 2021 by AlmGandix3
I am a gobsprakk hater

[P.T.Bahnum]

2 hours ago, Stux said:

Yeah, I think you're probably right in terms of optimising the list. I happen to already have a Megaboss and no Warchanter though hah

Also, I'd need to factor in the new Megaboss ability to have command abilities affect two units. With him I can Mighty Destroyers/All Out Attack two units, so I think its a less obvious change than it might first appear, given how few units the Warchanter would be buffing in this build.

Missing out on the Waaagh points is definitely an issue though. Annoying that no Kruleboyz units contribute additional points.

Just remember that he still has a range on the 2 units he gives the command to and also they must be ironjawz. this really does limit down the use of a megaboss in the list you showed and id still lean towards the warchanter.

[Jabbuk]

8 hours ago, Sivyre said:

Wait what on earth do you plan for a list?? Like a metric ton of gutrippaz because the models you can’t field  you should have the space for…

 

currently planned tentatively I have the following

gobsprakk.     300
KB on vulcha. 240
mirebrute        180
sludgeraker.    315
swampcall.     105

gutrippaz x20 360
boltboyz x 6.   240
boltboyz x 6.   240

total 1980

debating droping gobsprakk for another sludgraker. Notentirely sold on the warscroll. Lame save, no + casts HCV spell lore leads to unreliability so we have this 300 point utility support piece that’s looking very situational.

Sure yeah, so my list I'm thinking of right now is the following:

---

Gobsprakk 300

Sludgeraker 315

Swampcalla shaman 105

Marshcrawler Sloggoth 150

2x10 Gutrippaz 360

9x Boltboyz 360

2x Killbows 260

---

So that puts me at 1850 pts. From there on, I'd like to have a Killboss on Gnashtooth but I don't got the points, so I'd go for the foot one. I'd also like to include the Mirebrute but no spot and nothing for the Belcha banner too. I could also forego the Killaboss for a 2nd shaman but I feel like it puts me very vulnerable to battleshock. Do you have any constructive thoughts?

 

[P.T.Bahnum]

13 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Sure yeah, so my list I'm thinking of right now is the following:

---

Gobsprakk 300

Sludgeraker 315

Swampcalla shaman 105

Marshcrawler Sloggoth 150

2x10 Gutrippaz 360

9x Boltboyz 360

2x Killbows 260

---

So that puts me at 1850 pts. From there on, I'd like to have a Killboss on Gnashtooth but I don't got the points, so I'd go for the foot one. I'd also like to include the Mirebrute but no spot and nothing for the Belcha banner too. I could also forego the Killaboss for a 2nd shaman but I feel like it puts me very vulnerable to battleshock. Do you have any constructive thoughts?

 

so I have your answer but its going to rain on a parade here. you cant take a marshcrawler in current kruleboyz list. it doesn't currently have it and even if you try and make a kruleboyz list in the new app its not listed. so the correct answer here is that you actually have 300 points to play with because the marshcrawler is an illegal choice. you could include any number of the listed choices you want in that 300. personally I like the idea of taking a killaboss on foot, a shaman, and a unit of hobgrotz for maximum use but you could take a kb/mirebrute or mirebrute/shaman as choices as well. sorry to be the one to point out that marshcrawler currently doesn't have kruleboyz keyword.

[Jabbuk]

3 minutes ago, P.T.Bahnum said:

so I have your answer but its going to rain on a parade here. you cant take a marshcrawler in current kruleboyz list. it doesn't currently have it and even if you try and make a kruleboyz list in the new app its not listed. so the correct answer here is that you actually have 300 points to play with because the marshcrawler is an illegal choice. you could include any number of the listed choices you want in that 300. personally I like the idea of taking a killaboss on foot, a shaman, and a unit of hobgrotz for maximum use but you could take a kb/mirebrute or mirebrute/shaman as choices as well. sorry to be the one to point out that marshcrawler currently doesn't have kruleboyz keyword.

Hehe it's all good, thanks for the suggestions. I have tons of IJ anyways so I guess he'll be good in BW right? I mean that +1 to hit aura will certainly be useful. Thanks for pointing it out.

[P.T.Bahnum]

2 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hehe it's all good, thanks for the suggestions. I have tons of IJ anyways so I guess he'll be good in BW right? I mean that +1 to hit aura will certainly be useful. Thanks for pointing it out.

i think they are fantastic for bw and ive been looking at them, boltboyz, and strangely kb on vulcha as great bw pieces.

[idn0971]

3 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hehe it's all good, thanks for the suggestions. I have tons of IJ anyways so I guess he'll be good in BW right? I mean that +1 to hit aura will certainly be useful. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's +1 damage to one ironjawz not +1 to hit. I wouldn't run any ironjawz without playing at least one and if you are playing pure ironjawz I'd play at least 2.