So how does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar?

[Beliman]

I think that we have a bit of both worlds:

Yes, we have Nagash doing his things and Sigmar sitting in his throne and all of that stuff.

But we have people looking for a long-lost-city, a cult of Tzeentch infiltrating a human city, a random mercenary that wants to finish a job near an old sleeping eldrich god/horror, etc... 

I mean... Yes, if we just read only about gods and ignore all other books and even battletomes that are not related to them, then I agree that AoS is all about "simple" gods.

Btw, I still think that the Lore needs to kill a living and active god. That could be a good message for all the gods that are playing the Long Game: "hey, you are not save anymore, in AoS, even Gods will die in the most horrible...".

[TheWilddog]

I am a long time player, going all the way back to 2nd edition Warhammer, and AOS has been my favorite iteration of the game.  From a gameplay perspective I love the streamlined nature of AOS rules. The rules have never been more straight forward and as someone who has been teaching people to play this game for 20 years I think that the game is the most accessible, new player friendly that it has ever been. Teaching people to play 7th and 8th edition was like forcing people to take a standardized test instead of play a game. I know that some people lament the loss of the complexity of Old Hammer but I don't miss it one bit. 

As for the fluff, as someone who has played the game almost since the beginning  I get the connection to the Old World setting. I loved some of the places of the Old World but even I have to admit that by the end of the setting the Old World had become stale. The limited and static nature of the setting had become a detriment and limited meaningful narrative evolution.  AOS has breathed new life into the lore for me by opening up the setting. I really like the new high fantasy setting and all the possibilities that it opens up.  Overall, I just love where the game is at and locally my scene before the pandemic was the most active and engaged it had been in a really long time.

[Baron Klatz]

11 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Btw, I still think that the Lore needs to kill a living and active god. That could be a good message for all the gods that are playing the Long Game: "hey, you are not save anymore, in AoS, even Gods will die in the most horrible...".

Grimnir: "Am I a joke to you?"

[ninjaDance]

If I'm totally honest with myself, I don't have nearly as much fun with AoS as I did WHFB, or several other games I've tried since. That said, it's as much circumstance as mechanics.

When I played WHFB, I mainly played one group of friends that all wanted to play for similar reasons; for everyone to have a good time with their cool armies and personal stories we worked up. My buddy usually won as he was the better strategist, but we all had a good time. We all moved before End Times hit. 

Now it's AoS and, since GHB 1 dropped, the about the only people playing AoS here are ultra-competitive. I've tried to fall in line in order to have a fun game, but there's really only one guy I've found not dedicated to wiping me off the board turn one. And he's really moving more toward the competitive scene as well. I have three kids (two pretty young) and the other players are all a couple of hours away, so... I get to play maybe once every couple of months if I'm lucky. Not a lot of practice just makes it worse.

Combine this with some aspects of the game that make a bad time worse, like the double turn mechanic or abilities that let deathstars fight twice without a reaction and I've been finding lately that I'm just not enjoying the game. Which is a shame, because the lore is fun and it's really fun to build and paint armies for it. 

 

 

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, Baron Klatz said:

Grimnir: "Am I a joke to you?"

Hahahha poor dude.

But I was talking more about Gods being killed by Mortals. It has a grimdark feeling in taking down the main stars of the setting.

[Baron Klatz]

Well there-in lies the problem. 

On one hand it's pretty impossible because gods are tied to the realms thus why Grimnir though lost physically can still be active spiritually and the death gods devoured by Nagash can still aid their followers through fragments of their conscious.

 

Shyish Duardin Dirge priest: "What is death to a God? Dust, and less than dust."

-"A Dirge of Dust and Steel"

 

And then there's the problem who to kill. The factions are all tied to their gods so any death of a main god neuters the army, it's realm and nullifies the narrative of using their model anymore.

You could try a yet unused god but seeing how the fanbase had fits when they thought ths Azyr reporter implied Malerion was dead it's not a good idea. Same if they killed off Tyrion before he can shine. And we all know the salt when they thought Slaanesh was dead.

The safer route is to take down a God-beast. They're up there with the gods in power and influence like the lode-gryphon of Chamon whose very presence warped all the nearby continents while being numerous enough to not hurt anything as both gods and mortals have taken them down so mortals could live in the realms.

So I think the best solution is more focus on them. It's been stated that many of the god-beasts went into hiding since the Age of Myth and ones like the lode-gryphon and Dracothion came from outside the realms so a mix of a resurgence of these primordial gods and outer-realm invasion to match the order pantheon's when they first came to the realms would give plenty of opportunities for those god-slaying heroics.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Ravinsild]

On 7/16/2020 at 4:01 AM, Grdaat said:

Which city is AoS's Terra/Cadia/Fenris/Armageddon/Baal/Ultramar/Vigilus? 40k gives reasons for why their major planets are important, each contributes to those around it whereas AoS's cities are just cities. If they're destroyed, they're replaceable. The same isn't true of the planets I mentioned, just look at what happened when Cadia fell.

AoS is like 40k if there were no major planets.

The Cities are the first strike points that Sigmar sent his Stormcast Eternals. They took the first ground and cleared them of chaos and are invaluable to transporation across the realms. It's like an interrealm high-way, but Chaos still holds the 8 points. Without the Cities and the gates they protect the realms would be isolated from each other making the forces against Chaos, and amongst themselves, much harder to collaborate logistically.

[Grdaat]

Just now, Ravinsild said:

The Cities are the first strike points that Sigmar sent his Stormcast Eternals. They took the first ground and cleared them of chaos and are invaluable to transporation across the realms. It's like an interrealm high-way, but Chaos still holds the 8 points. Without the Cities and the gates they protect the realms would be isolated from each other making the forces against Chaos, and amongst themselves, much harder to collaborate logistically.

Except there's many ways they can get around them, as seen by the Seraphon, but I'm not going to argue too much on this point. The more we argue about it the further off-topic the thread goes.

[Baron Klatz]

17 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Without the Cities and the gates they protect the realms would be isolated from each other making the forces against Chaos, and amongst themselves, much harder to collaborate logistically.

It's also negatively impacted the opposing factions by breaking up their lines of logistics.

Losing those important cities and their realmgates means the enemy can "reconnect" and better maneuver and resupply against Order who'd only have Stormcast, Seraphon and Deepkin able to move strike forces around but not civilizations worth of civilians & necessities, starting a new Age of Chaos, Death or Destruction.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[stratigo]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:41 AM, tripalreno4 said:

I haven't really been paying attention to the Warhammer universes for awhile, but was shocked when Warhammer Fantasy was wiped clean. How does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar, and what do people play now for their Warhammer Fantasy fix?

I mean, this is a forum for AoS. The people here aren't only here ironically

 

On 7/14/2020 at 5:47 AM, lare2 said:

It's great. Play it. It's far superior to 40k 8th and time will tell for 9th.

This remains contestable

 

On 7/14/2020 at 8:18 AM, NinthMusketeer said:

I have always preferred Fantasy to Sci-Fi by default, but in recent years the biggest reason I have enjoyed the fantasy side of Warhammer more has come to be the culture of the game. Here in the US we have a very competitive culture, and in 40k it really shows. Even 'casual' leagues are overrun with optimization of GW's ever-frequent balancing errors and the idea of narrative or "just for fun" frequently plays second fiddle to winning. I have found people tend to take AoS less seriously and that makes for a better community. Narrative elements actually find support, there is less delusion that points justify the potency, and people care more about the game than the win/loss ratio. In my experience.

Also AoS attracts less ******, Which is nice

 

 

On 7/14/2020 at 9:27 AM, NinthMusketeer said:

Though the daring may wish to transport their airship via Mawcrusha.

I'm doing a stonehorn drop with my kharadrons in a narrative

 

 

On 7/16/2020 at 5:01 AM, Grdaat said:

Which city is AoS's Terra/Cadia/Fenris/Armageddon/Baal/Ultramar/Vigilus? 40k gives reasons for why their major planets are important, each contributes to those around it whereas AoS's cities are just cities. If they're destroyed, they're replaceable. The same isn't true of the planets I mentioned, just look at what happened when Cadia fell.

AoS is like 40k if there were no major planets.

Hammerhall

 

 

On 7/16/2020 at 6:01 AM, Beliman said:

What makes Cadia and all this planets so important? I'm starting war40k and I really like what I'm reading.

In older fluff it was positioned in the only section of realspace that the Eye of Terror had a stable warp path to. Every other way in and out of the Eye was entirely too inconsistent and impossible to predict to launch campaigns out of, though on occasion a pathway would stabilize for long enough to, say, launch the gothic war.

 

Then GW retconned this and made Cadia have magic anti warp space rocks. I preferred the older lore honestly.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 2:20 PM, shinros said:

Ironically on the 40k lore reddit people feel the opposite, 40k lore is going downhill while it's the opposite for AOS. In my opinion the lore was changed to give the writers a wider space to add or change things. In fantasy nothing changed.  While here, cities can rise and fall, factions can win or lose without the setting being destroyed. People can enjoy their faction being in the sun for a moment, you gave an example the celestant prime vs Olynder.

Those sorts of conflicts is what people largely care about, at the moment from my perspective in the 40k lore reddit people are tired of factions getting slapped by the space marines.  Hence why many dislike the psychic awakening. 

Now, to go back to a previous point. It wouldn't be the end of the setting if Terra fell, why? Because they would be forced to adapt.  Half of the Imperium does not actually have any access to astronomicon, yet the setting still carries on. Those in nihilus now make multiple small jumps instead of large ones. The setting is large enough to allow such changes. 

Many felt before the fall of cadia that if chaos gets past it they will overrun the galaxy, but guess what? The opposite happened, they got blunted pretty quickly so the setting can carry on as I said.  

So your argument to me is falling flat on it's face. To me the point of making AOS larger is to allow more room for "your dudes" instead of being the stooge of a elector count or one of the many characters. 

Eh, the state of 40k lore's fine. Though they did just travel backwards in time, which is a bit strange after they time jumped.

 

 

On 7/18/2020 at 8:54 AM, Baron Klatz said:

This part I disagree with. AoS is crawling with grey when you read the desires and actions behind all the gods and mighty heroes.

Like Nagash may be a tyrant but he hits grey areas because not only were the old pantheon oaths broken  where he was promised to have reign over all souls as the underworlds new god after helping Sigmar defeat it's God-beast to bring order to Death(even had the undead build many of Order's cities in the Age of Myth as further cooperation) but Sigmar and the Aelven gods kept taking their shares for reincarnation in spite of the agreement and later in the Age of Chaos Sigmar would outright bolt up heroes, princes and champions of Shyish for his Relictors and Stormcast Anvils for their knowledge of souls & necromancy which Nagash has a point in arguing taking such figures when they were needed left those parts of the realms even more vulnerable with their best minds and heroes gone.

And then we see the many different aspects Nagash has which are benign death keepers to help those in his charge.

"He has a number of aspects for like Sigmar he contains multitudes - All are one in Nagash and Nagash is all.

• Black Priest: He who gives succour to those whose deaths are too painful to be borne. 
• Nagash-Mor: Calm and silent, he weighs the hearts of dead souls against a feather.
• The Forlorn Child: He leads those who die before their allotted time to gentle slumber. "

That he views life as "false-life" and undeath as "true life" where in his realm the vampires, zombies and skeletons have council alongside the living and it's common practice for the old to be put down or seasonal suicides so they can be raised to rejoin society as either now tireless workers or move up the necromantic hierachy can easily be viewed as Blue and Orange morality since death isn't an end but a new beginning.

Grand Marshal Archaon is very straightforward grey area too. He wants to conquer the realms so he can lock out the Chaos gods, kill the remaining Order gods and make it so mortals are no longer pawns but have their own destiny to choose and follow. This is why the Varanguard, his trusted knights and bodyguards, worship only Archaon and not the dark gods and why he has personal control of the All-Gates/Eight-points so he can eventually turn it's access to the chaos realm off like a spigot and lock the dark gods out of the Mortal Realms.

To do this though he needs their power to defeat the other gods which is where so much grey area comes from in his ends justifying the bloody means.

AoS can have good & evil outlooks but it's anything but just black and white. Just look to Order and it's many soul eating allies like the Deepkin of Aqshy that depopulate coastlines of villages with their soul hunger & predatory flying blood fish that consume the rest, gods of shadow, slavery and deception or nature goddess of life who turned her realm into a death trap and spawns war aspects which stalk the innocent as invaders and defilers. Even the Lumineth as new shining beacons of order have much darkness to their light between aetherquarz dependence making them merciless and having rocky relations with all but the aforementioned Deepkin as their brethren who their creator tried to genocide.

The issue is that, narratively, we never ever see Nagash the not cackling skeletor. Nagash as he does anything remains the same self absorbed, egotistical, jerkoff that he was in the Old World. His effects on the setting are always through the lens of maniacal rule the world evil. His interactions with his subordinates are always in the context of him being a maniacal supervillain. At best we get a bone or two throne in novels mentioning other aspects, but we never see them. We only see skeletor and his plan to murder literally everyone in the universe to raise as undead servitors

 

And this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Nagash is a fine villain. But nuanced he is not.

 

On 7/18/2020 at 9:35 AM, Baron Klatz said:

Okay so you can see my confusion when you over-simplified them as "local Skeletor" which did come off as cartoonish.

Comparing them to more complex comic villains like Thanos or Doctor Doom would've hit the middleground we both could agree to.

Powerful beings with more nuances to them than meets the eye but still straightforward enough for what players expect and want from a god-tier faction figurehead.

Nagash is super skeletor.

 

I can imagine him in his pyramid of doom going "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME SIIIIIIIGMAR!"

[Ninelives]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:36 PM, ninjaDance said:

If I'm totally honest with myself, I don't have nearly as much fun with AoS as I did WHFB, or several other games I've tried since. That said, it's as much circumstance as mechanics.

When I played WHFB, I mainly played one group of friends that all wanted to play for similar reasons; for everyone to have a good time with their cool armies and personal stories we worked up. My buddy usually won as he was the better strategist, but we all had a good time. We all moved before End Times hit. 

Now it's AoS and, since GHB 1 dropped, the about the only people playing AoS here are ultra-competitive. I've tried to fall in line in order to have a fun game, but there's really only one guy I've found not dedicated to wiping me off the board turn one. And he's really moving more toward the competitive scene as well. I have three kids (two pretty young) and the other players are all a couple of hours away, so... I get to play maybe once every couple of months if I'm lucky. Not a lot of practice just makes it worse.

Combine this with some aspects of the game that make a bad time worse, like the double turn mechanic or abilities that let deathstars fight twice without a reaction and I've been finding lately that I'm just not enjoying the game. Which is a shame, because the lore is fun and it's really fun to build and paint armies for it. 

 

 

Have you tried Narrative oriented games? the NEOs are doing an amazing job and on the Animosity Discord server we've touched on that a few times, you don't need to be in a competitive environment to have fun and a lot of people are interested in that , they might just be less vocal. 

[Grdaat]

5 hours ago, stratigo said:

Hammerhall

Hammerhal's not irreplaceable, if it fell they could just build a new city whereas none of the places I mentioned are replaceable, and all of them have major ramifications for the Imperium if they fell, with one of them outright killing the faction off.

Quote

In older fluff it was positioned in the only section of realspace that the Eye of Terror had a stable warp path to. Every other way in and out of the Eye was entirely too inconsistent and impossible to predict to launch campaigns out of, though on occasion a pathway would stabilize for long enough to, say, launch the gothic war.

Then GW retconned this and made Cadia have magic anti warp space rocks. I preferred the older lore honestly

That was also in the older lore since at least 3rd edition.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Grdaat

[michu]

22 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

Hammerhal's not irreplaceable, if it fell they could just build a new city whereas none of the places I mentioned are replaceable, and all of them have major ramifications for the Imperium if they fell, with one of them outright killing the faction off.

That's not how it works. Hammerhall is the biggest military power on the continent of Great Parch. And don't forget about Realmgate. Losing Hammerhall means Chaos have another way to invade Ghyran. And that also will be terrible for supply of Aqua Ghyranis (which is important for healing and for decorrupting the land, and is basically a currency). Basically end of Hammerhall can be an end of whole continent. Conquered Bataar would give Chaos not only all artefacts and goods sold there but also  flying armada. Conquered Anvilgard give Chaos a possibility for raiding other continents. Cities are important. You can't simply go "oh, we lost our capital, but no biggie we just go somewhere else and rebuild it". Usually conquered capital is a conquered country.

Oh, and some cities have gates to Azyr. If they would fall - Chaos can invide Azyr. That's game over.

[Grdaat]

16 minutes ago, michu said:

That's not how it works. Hammerhall is the biggest military power on the continent of Great Parch. And don't forget about Realmgate. Losing Hammerhall means Chaos have another way to invade Ghyran. And that also will be terrible for supply of Aqua Ghyranis (which is important for healing and for decorrupting the land, and is basically a currency). Basically end of Hammerhall can be an end of whole continent. Conquered Bataar would give Chaos not only all artefacts and goods sold there but also  flying armada. Conquered Anvilgard give Chaos a possibility for raiding other continents. Cities are important. You can't simply go "oh, we lost our capital, but no biggie we just go somewhere else and rebuild it". Usually conquered capital is a conquered country.

Oh, and some cities have gates to Azyr. If they would fall - Chaos can invide Azyr. That's game over.

Hammerhal was also built after the Age of Chaos (and even the Realmgate Wars) and there's no reason it cannot be rebuilt. Losing it does not mean losing a huge amount of territory (especially when we still don't know how big the realms are exactly, one continent is nothing if there's literally thousands in it) and even if Chaos got back to where it was that wouldn't mean much since that's where the Order factions started at. Contrast that with losing Vigilus, a move that cuts off half the entry points into half the galaxy, or losing Cadia, which split the galaxy in half, or losing Terra, which would kill the Imperium entirely. As for Bataar, they already have a flying armada, there's already mentions of how the Overlords have to fight the flying Chaos troops and Archaon's forces are literally shown running traveling across the sky.

16 minutes ago, michu said:

Cities are important. You can't simply go "oh, we lost our capital, but no biggie we just go somewhere else and rebuild it".

Sure you can, it's what they did after the Age of Chaos (and in Hammerhal's case, after the Realmgate Wars) and there's no reason to believe they cannot do it again.

Quote

Usually conquered capital is a conquered country.

And? AoS has countries getting destroyed every Tuesday going by the descriptions in each book of the constant conquests, especially of the Ogors.

Quote

Oh, and some cities have gates to Azyr. If they would fall - Chaos can invide Azyr. That's game over.

Unless Sigmar shuts their doors again. Funny how people keep forgetting he can do that.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Grdaat

[Neverchosen]

I think it is largely unfair to compare the intricacies and importance of a developing narrative framework with a well established one. I also think the investment in both narrative systems will result in people becoming defensive of which ever narrative they prefer. I think comparing AOS to Rogue Trader or earlier editions of 40k would be more appropriate. But even with that comparison we have the virtue of retrospect and knowledge of where those world building elements would eventually lead.

I think the thing that I love about AOS is the potential and speculation that exists within the narrative. I am confident that the lore writers will develop amazing stories in the mortal realms and create plenty of regions and cultures that feel important and impactful. However, my current love of the lore is the idea that currently my armies are my own. My cousin, who I got into AOS, has gifted me with some Imperial Knights and I have to confess the lore, rules and community of 40k are all fairly intimidating.  AoS may be confusing but I think it has a feeling of openness that appeals to me.  

Edited July 29, 2020 by Neverchosen

[michu]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

Unless Sigmar shuts the door again. Funny how people keep forgetting he can do that.

Last time he had enough time to do that. You can't be sure he will make it this time.

2 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

And? AoS has countries getting destroyed every Tuesday going by the descriptions in each book of the constant conquests, especially of the Ogors.

And 40k planets are  sometimes destroyed by whole systems and yet Imperium still lives/rots exactly as it always did. Yet you think they have more significance. Did destroying Cadia help conquer Terra? Sure, Great Rift and all of that, but Imperium haven't fall even after losing half of it's territory. Chaos even got on Terra (Khorne forces) but they were destroyed. Armageddon still exist but its war is so big that planet basically gives nothing to te Imperium. And yet nothing really changed.

1 minute ago, Neverchosen said:

community of 40k are all fairly intimidating. 

Especially if you look at r/40klore or rather r/40kheadcannonwithoutanyloreproof.

[Grdaat]

15 minutes ago, michu said:

Last time he had enough time to do that. You can't be sure he will make it this time.

Sure we can, last time he lost the All-points and still had enough time to go on a rampage through Shyish before he went back and shut the door.

Quote

And 40k planets are  sometimes destroyed by whole systems and yet Imperium still lives/rots exactly as it always did.

That's why I didn't list insignificant planets. You cannot list significant AoS cities because none of them are cities where Sigmar's doomed if they fall.

Quote

Yet you think they have more significance. Did destroying Cadia help conquer Terra? Sure, Great Rift and all of that, but Imperium haven't fall even after losing half of it's territory.

Because they're still in the process of losing. You ever hear "Rome wasn't built in a day"? It didn't fall in a day either. Even the Horus Heresy took years to resolve and the Chaos factions had way more power and discipline back then.

Quote

Chaos even got on Terra (Khorne forces) but they were destroyed.

That's the point, that sort of thing hasn't happened for 10,000 years and now it happened on its own.

Quote

Armageddon still exist but its war is so big that planet basically gives nothing to te Imperium. And yet nothing really changed.

Except for all the planets and systems around it.

Quote

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Grdaat

[Baron Klatz]

Oh sweet God-king will you guys give it a rest. Mods are gonna lock this thread at this point, it's like a train yeeted off the tracks by a mega-gargant.

6 hours ago, stratigo said:

Nagash is super skeletor.

I can imagine him in his pyramid of doom going "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME SIIIIIIIGMAR!"

Well if we're going that rout I say Skeletor + Dr.Doom. Both megalomaniacs with Doom's prosperous country rulership barely ever shown besides the castles and superweapons for the action focused stories. (I've no doubt the nuances will come out when Cubicle 7 gets their turn to play with the death god and his realm )

They really nail Nagash's sinister sympathy side in the audio dramas. His promises and "see how they've wronged you?" speeches to twist people into his faith is very chilling.

7 hours ago, stratigo said:

I'm doing a stonehorn drop with my kharadrons in a narrative

Nice!

That'd be horrifying to see if you kept the model hidden for the story element.

Also that gives me an idea for my rpg groups. A "Help corral the admiral's flying menagerie in Ghur" would be really fun and full of plot-hooks like poaching angering the Sylvaneth, Kurnothi or a local God-beast or they got their more exotic catches from a gargant tribe camped around a hidden chaos realmgate making a Varanspire sorcerer take action to stop the menagerie reaching any curious Stormcasts before he's found out.

1 hour ago, michu said:

Last time he had enough time to do that. You can't be sure he will make it this time.

He could but last time he had powers like the multi-realm spanning Lantic empire and weapons from the Age of Myth make a last stand for Order so the people of the realms could get through the closing gates in mass exodus.

With the fledgling kingdoms now and only just rediscovering lost Myth weapons & powers it'd be a death sentence to everyone not near a Azyr realmgate.

Worse, the Stormvaults are open now and Archaon has more knowledge of the God-beasts now than back when it was a siege theory to open Azyr in addition to knowing the general location of Slaanesh's prison and other powerful realmgates like the duardin-built Silver Way in Chamon which acts as a bridge to multiple realms.

Order cannot afford to lock itself away again when the enemy is now so knowledgeable about the realms this time as long time conquests and natives instead of foreign invaders who were just discovering the incredible powers the mortal realms offered.

[Grdaat]

Just now, Baron Klatz said:

He could but last time he had powers like the multi-realm spanning Lantic empire and weapons from the Age of Myth make a last stand for Order so the people of the realms could get through the closing gates in mass exodus.

So he could just close them without waiting for the evacuation.

Just now, Baron Klatz said:

With the fledgling kingdoms now and only just rediscovering lost Myth weapons & powers it'd be a death sentence to everyone not near a Azyr realmgate.

So same as last time.

Just now, Baron Klatz said:

Worse, the Stormvaults are open now and Archaon has more knowledge of the God-beasts now than back when it was a siege theory to open Azyr in addition to knowing the general location of Slaanesh's prison and other powerful realmgates like the duardin-built Silver Way in Chamon which acts as a bridge to multiple realms.

Order cannot afford to lock itself away again when the enemy is now so knowledgeable about the realms this time as long time conquests and natives instead of foreign invaders who were just discovering the incredible powers the mortal realms offered.

Why not? So long as nobody can get through it really doesn't matter what Chaos gets, especially when other forces can keep making new stuff.

[Baron Klatz]

That's the point, they would get through. Archaon was already gathering God-beasts to breach Azyr back in 2016 with the God-beast campaign and the God-beast skull ram Gordrakk has hints it can do the same. Between the God-beasts and the evils hidden in the Stormvaults the Azyr gates would be breached.

It's a narrative threat they're building to show Order has to keep pushing forward and growing.

But yeah, let's cease this. This is a thread for people's minds on the franchise, not a narrative circle run.

[Grdaat]

4 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

That's the point, they would get through. Archaon was already gathering God-beasts to breach Azyr back in 2016 with the God-beast campaign and the God-beast skull ram Gordrakk has hints it can do the same. Between the God-beasts and the evils hidden in the Stormvaults the Azyr gates would be breached.

It's a narrative threat they're building to show Order has to keep pushing forward and growing.

But yeah, let's cease this. This is a thread for people's minds on the franchise, not a narrative circle run.

Supposedly, we've not been given reason to believe they'd breach them but I'm fine with stopping here since I doubt this discussion will go anywhere.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

To those wanting to further discuss what is at stake in the Mortal Realms, I started a thread better suited to such discussion:

 

 

[ninjaDance]

On 7/29/2020 at 6:06 AM, Ninelives said:

Have you tried Narrative oriented games? the NEOs are doing an amazing job and on the Animosity Discord server we've touched on that a few times, you don't need to be in a competitive environment to have fun and a lot of people are interested in that , they might just be less vocal. 

I've tried convincing others to play narrative games, but have had little success (so far!) Doesn't mean I won't stop trying, though, I really enjoy what they've created and want to try it out. I'm actually writing a campaign using some of the materials they have out there and have one person interested, so... fingers crossed!

[Barkanaut]

Used to like AoS but it definitely feels like there are too many old characters coming back from the old world and factions. It feels less and less like Age of Sigmar with each passing year and more and more like Warhammer 9th edition from a lore stand point. 

I don't know why they even created it at this point as its not the game I fell in love with. 

[Ninelives]

27 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Used to like AoS but it definitely feels like there are too many old characters coming back from the old world and factions. It feels less and less like Age of Sigmar with each passing year and more and more like Warhammer 9th edition from a lore stand point. 

I don't know why they even created it at this point as its not the game I fell in love with. 

Oh wow, I've never seen anyone say that? 
Who do you have in mind? Apart from Gotrek all the others always have been in Age of Sigmar lore haven't they? 

I struggle to share your point of view. I wouldn't have imagined Kharadron, Idoneth, Lumineth in the World-That-Was setting at all...