AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

[Malakithe]

On 12/23/2019 at 8:02 AM, Rune said:

Watch out with Ignax Scales. Since the FAQ Arcane Channeling is only wounds taken. If you channel on a unit with Ignax Scales you might not get any plusses at all.

Is using the Scales abilities mandatory though? Example: if you use the trait and take 4 MW can I choose to roll off 2 instead of all of them?

[Duke of Gisoreux]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Is using the Scales abilities mandatory though? Example: if you use the trait and take 4 MW can I choose to roll off 2 instead of all of them?

I think it is mandatory. The wording for the scales is "Roll a dice" and not "You may roll a dice".

[Maturin]

Has anyone tried a non bunker list with Hallowheart ? Something with mobile gryphon units or even pistoliers ?

[Maturin]

And Merry Christmas/Yule to you guys

[Zeblasky]

Hey guys! Starting player here, really need advice on my Hallowheart builds.

Quote

 

Magical Ladies 1000
Play Type: Matched | Game Type: Vanguard | Grand Alliance: Order | Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar Stronghold: Hallowheart Realm of Battle: AQSHY, The Realm of FIRE

Nomad Prince General 120pts
Command Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade

Sorceress on Black Dragon 300pts 
Artefact: Agloraxi Prism | Spell: Elemental Cyclone Spell: Sear Wounds

 

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Ignite Weapons Spell: Elemental Cyclone

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Sear Wounds Spell: Warding Brand
 
Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Crystal Aegis Spell: Roaming Wildfire

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Elemental Cyclone Spell: Roaming Wildfire

Endless Spells
Emerald Lifeswarm 50pts

 Total: 990/1000pts

 

If there is one unit that is same with both Total War: Warhammer and Age of Sigmar, it’s Sisters of Thorn - a unit of both shoot, stab and cast. While being less powerful than Wild riders in direct combat, especially on charge... well, they are 40pts more expensive wizards, that are much more tanky, killy and can spam magic like no tomorrow. Still though, I would like an advice from experienced players if it’s a good idea to have 90% of my army being combat wizards. And I also have no idea what artifact take on Sorceress besides Prism, as Ignax Scales are not a good idea now.

 

Quote

 

Magical Ladies
Play Type: Matched | Game Type: Battlehost | Grand Alliance: Order | Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar Stronghold: Hallowheart Realm of Battle: AQSHY, The Realm of FIRE

Nomad Prince General 120pts
Command Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade

Sorceress on Black Dragon 300pts
Artefact: Agloraxi Prism Spell: Elemental Cyclone Spell: Sear Wounds
 

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Sear Wounds Spell: Crystal Aegis

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Warding Brand Spell: Roaming Wildfire

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Ignite Weapons Spell: Elemental Cyclone

Sisters of the Thorn Quantity: 5 130pts
Spell: Ignite Weapons Spell: Roaming Wildfire

Sisters of the Watch Quantity: 20 320pts

Sisters of the Watch Quantity: 20 320pts
 
Eternal Guard Quantity: 10 130pts

Eternal Guard Quantity: 10 130pts

Endless Spells
Emerald Lifeswarm 50pts
Soulscream Bridge 80pts
Quicksilver Swords 30pts

 Total: 2000/2000pts

 

The same with 1000 points of teleporting infantry more. And Endless spells. The idea is to use soulscream bridge to plant 20x2 of Sisters and 10x2 of Eternal guard in front of Sisters( I think they should not block LOS in this case) with Nomad prince on the objective, shoot for 1-2 turns with optional overwatch, and when enemy gets close, teleport back or even in other position entirely together with Prince, while leaving EG as a stationary roadblock.

Have a big temptation to replace 1 Eternal Guard and Quicksilver swords for Black Guard and another spell for Sacrifice and more mobility with great Sorceress synergy. May be even 2 for 2. Also not sure if placing 60 models in 12 by 12 teleporting box is a good idea, even with 5 unbinds and ignoring spells on 4+...

[Rune]

19 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

Hey guys! Starting player here, really need advice on my Hallowheart builds.

If there is one unit that is same with both Total War: Warhammer and Age of Sigmar, it’s Sisters of Thorn - a unit of both shoot, stab and cast. While being less powerful than Wild riders in direct combat, especially on charge... well, they are 40pts more expensive wizards, that are much more tanky, killy and can spam magic like no tomorrow. Still though, I would like an advice from experienced players if it’s a good idea to have 90% of my army being combat wizards. And I also have no idea what artifact take on Sorceress besides Prism, as Ignax Scales are not a good idea now.

 

The same with 1000 points of teleporting infantry more. And Endless spells. The idea is to use soulscream bridge to plant 20x2 of Sisters and 10x2 of Eternal guard in front of Sisters( I think they should not block LOS in this case) with Nomad prince on the objective, shoot for 1-2 turns with optional overwatch, and when enemy gets close, teleport back or even in other position entirely together with Prince, while leaving EG as a stationary roadblock.

Have a big temptation to replace 1 Eternal Guard and Quicksilver swords for Black Guard and another spell for Sacrifice and more mobility with great Sorceress synergy. May be even 2 for 2. Also not sure if placing 60 models in 12 by 12 teleporting box is a good idea, even with 5 unbinds and ignoring spells on 4+...

Do you have the models in those armies? Then I suggest you play test it. 

 

It's so far from any Hallowheart list I have tried that I don't want to jump to any conclusions. 

 

A good chunk of why Hallowheart is good is the consistency in their magic. With a hyper mobile army i think you will have trouble fitting many of the SotT into the 12" inch wholly within +to cart bubble. Test it in a game or two if you got them.

 

 

[Zeblasky]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

Do you have the models in those armies? Then I suggest you play test it. 

 

It's so far from any Hallowheart list I have tried that I don't want to jump to any conclusions. 

 

A good chunk of why Hallowheart is good is the consistency in their magic. With a hyper mobile army i think you will have trouble fitting many of the SotT into the 12" inch wholly within +to cart bubble. Test it in a game or two if you got them.

I almost do, I only wait on Nomad Prince to come from England, but Cristmas traffic makes for a long delivery. Will have to proxy some Sisters of averlorn with Glade Guard though.

And yes, exessive mobility is both a blessing and a curse here. Good thing though that this bubble is not "wholly within", so I would need at least 1 model barely in range. So I will have a whole frontline of sisters on one flank. And for their cost they will put in a decent amount of hurt after casting. If only I could have a better artifact for Sorceress as well...

 

P.S. Oh, if only Sisters of Thorn would have had ability "can move 6 after shooting, but can't charge after". They would be a perfect kiting cavalry, heh. Would cost more as well though.

[Rune]

20 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

I almost do, I only wait on Nomad Prince to come from England, but Cristmas traffic makes for a long delivery. Will have to proxy some Sisters of averlorn with Glade Guard though.

And yes, exessive mobility is both a blessing and a curse here. Good thing though that this bubble is not "wholly within", so I would need at least 1 model barely in range. So I will have a whole frontline of sisters on one flank. And for their cost they will put in a decent amount of hurt after casting. If only I could have a better artifact for Sorceress as well...

 

P.S. Oh, if only Sisters of Thorn would have had ability "can move 6 after shooting, but can't charge after". They would be a perfect kiting cavalry, heh. Would cost more as well though.

Argh, 1d4chan wrongly states wholly within. The book does just say within, so you won't have any issues with the bubble. 

 

Only issue is that the sorceress on black dragon will be the only one doing the channeling. It can't get to close combat since then it'll die. I think you'd want a back-up Hero for the channeling.

 

I'd love to hear a battlereport once you've got a game under the belt!

[Calebexnihilo]

My luminark for HH army.... finished right before the FAQ... so may need to convert it to a Hurricanum. Haha

https://twitter.com/CalebHastings/status/1210245188813250560

[Zeblasky]

3 hours ago, Rune said:

Argh, 1d4chan wrongly states wholly within. The book does just say within, so you won't have any issues with the bubble. 

 

Only issue is that the sorceress on black dragon will be the only one doing the channeling. It can't get to close combat since then it'll die. I think you'd want a back-up Hero for the channeling.

 

I'd love to hear a battlereport once you've got a game under the belt!

Yea, it was never wholly within. But it was actually 1d4chan that game me idea for Sisters of thorn battleline.

 

Well, keeping a huge dragon out of combat... Does not feels like a good idea, but for sure he is not tanky either. He has -1 to hit with missiles, plus he will always have rerolling ones with Mystic shield, plus Warding Brand dishing mortal woulds back in melee... But that 5+ save and no defence versus Mortal Wounds, because Ignax scales rerolls are mandatory, is definetly not great. I will still have 2D6 healing, but I have so little tools to protect my dragon from death in a single enemy turn. If only I had Iron oak skin spell here, it would be so much easier. But still, I will have to engage with her if not turn 1, then at least turn 2.

Also I'm not sure how I will play in turn 1 considering that I will be out of range for most offensive spells, but I would need to be in range turn 2.

I'll post after I test it, but don't expect much, it will be my first tabletop game ever x)

 

[Rune]

1 hour ago, Zeblasky said:

Yea, it was never wholly within. But it was actually 1d4chan that game me idea for Sisters of thorn battleline.

 

Well, keeping a huge dragon out of combat... Does not feels like a good idea, but for sure he is not tanky either. He has -1 to hit with missiles, plus he will always have rerolling ones with Mystic shield, plus Warding Brand dishing mortal woulds back in melee... But that 5+ save and no defence versus Mortal Wounds, because Ignax scales rerolls are mandatory, is definetly not great. I will still have 2D6 healing, but I have so little tools to protect my dragon from death in a single enemy turn. If only I had Iron oak skin spell here, it would be so much easier. But still, I will have to engage with her if not turn 1, then at least turn 2.

Also I'm not sure how I will play in turn 1 considering that I will be out of range for most offensive spells, but I would need to be in range turn 2.

I'll post after I test it, but don't expect much, it will be my first tabletop game ever x)

 

It'll die quick. 30 Crossbowmen with +2 hit & +1 wound will deal 17 damage to your dragon even with Prism. 

It's a good point about your lack of spells turn 1. You'll have the most drops in a lot of games, so your opponent can decide that you go first. You have just 5 spells to use turn 1 if you are forced to go first (as you have no Balewind, Geminids, Portal of any Battlemage specific buffs).

I'd probably not run 4 units of SotT. Perhaps just 3. Then you can have a Battlemage with Balewind which can throw out a chainlightning plus a roaming wildfire turn one. Or a sorceress with word of pain and Roaming Wildfire.

 

[Zeblasky]

52 minutes ago, Rune said:

It'll die quick. 30 Crossbowmen with +2 hit & +1 wound will deal 17 damage to your dragon even with Prism. 

It's a good point about your lack of spells turn 1. You'll have the most drops in a lot of games, so your opponent can decide that you go first. You have just 5 spells to use turn 1 if you are forced to go first (as you have no Balewind, Geminids, Portal of any Battlemage specific buffs).

I'd probably not run 4 units of SotT. Perhaps just 3. Then you can have a Battlemage with Balewind which can throw out a chainlightning plus a roaming wildfire turn one. Or a sorceress with word of pain and Roaming Wildfire.

True, so I'd have to severely weaken enemy range first. If Sorceress still dies after engaging in melee, well, a least that's around 7 mortal wounds from warding brand(plus may be 2-3 from armour of thorns) in addition to any damage she does.

Btw, what's the usual range between deployed armies? Most of my offensive spells are range 18, with exeption of  Elemental Cyclone, so I wonder if that's enough.

Battlemage on a balewind is an interesting idea actually, but he will die the second it's the opponent turn if he has any range.  That's 120 points worth of stuff with 5+ save and 5 wounds that will be gone very fast. Granted, he will probably pay for himself already, but that's still a risky play. Besides, is +6 range usually enough to start casting?

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Zeblasky

[Rune]

3 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

True, so I'd have to severely weaken enemy range first. If Sorceress still dies after engaging in melee, well, a least that's around 7 mortal wounds from warding brand(plus may be 2-3 from armour of thorns) in addition to any damage she does.

Btw, what's the usual range between deployed armies? Most of my offensive spells are range 18, with exeption of  Elemental Cyclone, so I wonder if that's enough.

Battlemage on a balewind is an interesting idea actually, but he will die the second it's the opponent turn if he has any range.  That's 120 points worth of stuff with 5+ save and 5 wounds that will be gone very fast. Granted, he will probably pay for himself already, but that's still a risky play. Besides, is +6 range usually enough to start casting?

 

Depends on the scenario. Most cases though you play on the wide side of the table.

 

The length of the short side is 48 inches. Armies can usually set up within 12 inches of the back. So the minimum range will be 24 inches between each other if both armies set up units on the front row. 

 

If you place a Sorceress or Battlemage as close as you can and cast a Balewind you will get 6" range + the size of the Balewind base which is 4" (as you measure spell range from the Balewind base) and + 0.99inch (as it has to be cast within 1"). So your threat range will be 18" + 6" + 4" + 1". So your spell range goes from 18" to 29". Basically from definitely out of range to a healthy chunk into the enemy's deployment zone. If the enemy deploys so deep into their zone that they are not in range turn 1, then they will be very slow to get to objectives. If you have the opportunity you should give them the initiative to go first.

 

The Battlemage or sorceress will very likely survive due to being so far back. The rest of your units will run up or Bridge up. It's only countered by deep strike or long range warmachines. 

 

Usually there is also an objective in your own deployment zone, so having the Sorc/Battlemage near that, with a unit of eternal guard is not a bad idea. That adds to the protection.

 

 

 

[Zeblasky]

2 hours ago, Rune said:

Depends on the scenario. Most cases though you play on the wide side of the table.

 

The length of the short side is 48 inches. Armies can usually set up within 12 inches of the back. So the minimum range will be 24 inches between each other if both armies set up units on the front row. 

 

If you place a Sorceress or Battlemage as close as you can and cast a Balewind you will get 6" range + the size of the Balewind base which is 4" (as you measure spell range from the Balewind base) and + 0.99inch (as it has to be cast within 1"). So your threat range will be 18" + 6" + 4" + 1". So your spell range goes from 18" to 29". Basically from definitely out of range to a healthy chunk into the enemy's deployment zone. If the enemy deploys so deep into their zone that they are not in range turn 1, then they will be very slow to get to objectives. If you have the opportunity you should give them the initiative to go first.

The Battlemage or sorceress will very likely survive due to being so far back. The rest of your units will run up or Bridge up. It's only countered by deep strike or long range warmachines. 

 

Usually there is also an objective in your own deployment zone, so having the Sorc/Battlemage near that, with a unit of eternal guard is not a bad idea. That adds to the protection.

Hmmm. Seems interesting, especially considering look out sir bonus. And it's 2 long range cast first turn and 3 casts on a second. Still though, not sure here. Definetly no go for 1000 points, but could work for 2000. It would be a great casting tool, but it's once again just a wizard with no combat prowess. And even if I get first turn I can still just alpha something with 40 2+ 3+ sisters of the watch while carefully moving the rest of my army, then teleport back on the next turn and unleash magic then. Unlike Battle wizards, my deer ladies can actually fight, and sure they are glass cannony, but if my opponent focuses them too much, I'm not sure he will be able to kill 40 teleporting and very cost effective archers(which will have 4+ save thanks to the armour of thorn)

 

Teleporting here though is all about moving mine Eternal Guard and Sisters of the watch with Nomad prince closer. Btw, important question - will putting Eternal Guard right in front of sisters of the watch block line of sight for Sisters(versus infantry size targets)? And will eternal guard help by blocking frontal charges from the enemy? And yea, melee combat does not block bridge teleport into a enemy free zone, right?

 

[Alessio]

If I use arcane channeling  command ability on a wizard with 5 wounds can I use the routine to share the damage? If yes, do I get the bonus only for wounds not negated on my hero or the total wounds between the hero and the routine?

[Calebexnihilo]

6 hours ago, Alessio said:

If I use arcane channeling  command ability on a wizard with 5 wounds can I use the routine to share the damage? If yes, do I get the bonus only for wounds not negated on my hero or the total wounds between the hero and the routine?

Yes, you can send the damage to the retinue... but NO it won't count towards the casting bonus.

The retinue pass off happens BEFORE wounds are allocated to the hero (per battletome page 63).

• Rolladicebeforeyouallocatea woundormortalwoundtoyour generalwhiletheyarewithin3"of theirretinue.Ona4+,thatwound ormortalwoundisallocatedtothe retinueinsteadofthegeneral.

And the FAQ says the hero actually has to suffer the wounds to get the bonus.

• add the number of mortal wounds suffered by that Wizard and not negated 

So a Hurricanum is almost mandatory for Hallowheart now. And DON'T put Ignax scales on it... that fights against our ability now.

[Alessio]

6 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Yes, you can send the damage to the retinue... but NO it won't count towards the casting bonus.

The retinue pass off happens BEFORE wounds are allocated to the hero (per battletome page 63).

• Rolladicebeforeyouallocatea woundormortalwoundtoyour generalwhiletheyarewithin3"of theirretinue.Ona4+,thatwound ormortalwoundisallocatedtothe retinueinsteadofthegeneral.

And the FAQ says the hero actually has to suffer the wounds to get the bonus.

• add the number of mortal wounds suffered by that Wizard and not negated 

So a Hurricanum is almost mandatory for Hallowheart now. And DON'T put Ignax scales on it... that fights against our ability now.

Thank you that was very well explained!

[Alessio]

@Calebexnihilo so about the routine we pass the wounds with a 4+ and AFTER we do two different saves rolls(routine and general). Is that correct?

[Rune]

51 minutes ago, Alessio said:

@Calebexnihilo so about the routine we pass the wounds with a 4+ and AFTER we do two different saves rolls(routine and general). Is that correct?

Save happens before. 

 

It says "Roll a dice before you allocate wounds". Allocating wounds is when you have done your save roll.

[Alessio]

18 minutes ago, Rune said:

Save happens before. 

 

It says "Roll a dice before you allocate wounds". Allocating wounds is when you have done your save roll.

Thank you ! 

[Heaven_lord]

Hi, I am looking to start an Hallowheart army only for double games (2x1k pts).

Would you have ideas of good list to start ?

Thanks a lot !

[Calebexnihilo]

23 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hi, I am looking to start an Hallowheart army only for double games (2x1k pts).

Would you have ideas of good list to start ?

Thanks a lot !

Hurricanum would be my first model for any HH list. Very versatile.

I really REALLY like a Sorceress with a max block of Darkshards.

If I were building a 1k list, maybe it would look like:

• Hurricanum with artifact of your choice
• Sorceress - General
• Sorceress - Adjunct
• 40x Darkshards
• 10x Bleakswords or other battleline - Retinue
• 50 pts of endless spells

Those 40 Darkshards properly buffed will put out 80 shots on 2/3/-/1 at 29" threat range.

[Rune]

Played my new Hallowheart list yesterday. Even though I got terrible rolls (+1 spell cast from Arcane Channeling). Failed casting tons of crucial spells. The list won.

I think it is critical to have two heroes that can use Arcane Channeling. I also really like the small sorceress detachment. Flexible since she can get +2 to cast even if I set her up without range from the Arcane Channeling. On many battleplans she will defend the objective behind with the 10 Bleakswords.

The list is only 100 wounds. But the Luminark adds a 6+ FNP which adds wounds to the most important characters. It also makes it less likely that the Mortek Crawlers (and similar effects) will one shot my Battlemage/Knight Incantor.

If going second, Comet does on average 3.5 MWs, add Word of Pain (29" range), Roaming Wildfire (29" range), Luminark shot (30" range), and 2 Long Rifles from the handgunners. That all averages roughly 12 damage on any target within 30". Some of that also spreads to nearby units. The spellportal can add Chain Lightning to that, but I will probably most often use it with Elemental Cyclone.

Bridge is used to get away rather than to get in. Re-position and shoot on whatever is close. Geminids is thrown out on turn 1 even if they don't hit anything. Use them tactically so the opponent has to run through them to get to where you bridge. 

[Calebexnihilo]

Hurricanum! Ready to rain down some comets. The model is now a little ridiculous... But I like it!! Haha

https://twitter.com/CalebHastings/status/1213929396945539072

My Cities of Sigmar army will have the Incantor and his buddy the Everblaze Comet. So I decided to include more comets. The Hurricanum has a spell that's a comet... So it works!

[Rune]

27 minutes ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Hurricanum! Ready to rain down some comets. The model is now a little ridiculous... But I like it!! Haha

https://twitter.com/CalebHastings/status/1213929396945539072

My Cities of Sigmar army will have the Incantor and his buddy the Everblaze Comet. So I decided to include more comets. The Hurricanum has a spell that's a comet... So it works!

Awesome conversation mate!