AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[StokieRich]

13 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

So you dont see the value of rerolling all wounds against chaos in a slaanesh heavy meta? 

Yea maybe mate if its zandtos you're using, that was the one benefit I said was worth it for if you Re-read. I see a lot of purple saying use katakros in praetorian which isn't any better than he is in petrefex sadly! 

 

I still think though that zandtos isn't worth it vs having +1 save on everything and perhaps more importantly +1 rend. You'd have to protect him very well and in the mirror he does nothing more than a liege whilst having no access to an artefact or command point. 

[Dolomyte]

He was more saying he did not see why katakros is better in praetorians

[Phasteon]

28 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:

He was more saying he did not see why katakros is better in praetorians

Thanks, now I get it. 

For your clarification though I never claimed that Katakros is „better“ in a Praetorians army. I just said I can imagine a list with Katakros, Zandtos and 2 Mortek Crawlers winning tournaments which would mean its competitive.

 

But I guess you will disagree anyway „mate“

[Dolomyte]

12 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Thanks, now I get it. 

For your clarification though I never claimed that Katakros is „better“ in a Praetorians army. I just said I can imagine a list with Katakros, Zandtos and 2 Mortek Crawlers winning tournaments which would mean its competitive.

 

But I guess you will disagree anyway „mate“

I actually agree with you, I think praetorians and crematorians are both competitive . Null myriad in team events 

[Gwendar]

@Phasteon We're already seeing Petrifex lists with 2 Crawlers doing quite well. Katakros is a great pick and the second option (or both together) of Arkhan is great as well.. so long as you have a +1 to hit (Katakros/Shrieker) and are grabbing those 6+ RDP then you're far better off just being Petrifex. If anything it's a disadvantage to run MP in the same setup.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably the Crawlers + Mortek Guard with a 3+ rerolling winning the games and Katakros being in MP or Petrifex is the same, except better in Petrifex when it comes to the competitive option. So... Yeah I guess MP can be competitive but why would you when the same can be had easier in Petrifex?

Edited December 1, 2019 by Gwendar

[Dolomyte]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

@Phasteon We're already seeing Petrifex lists with 2 Crawlers doing quite well. Katakros is a great pick and the second option (or both together) of Arkhan is great as well.. so long as you have a +1 to hit (Katakros/Shrieker) and are grabbing those 6+ RDP then you're far better off just being Petrifex. If anything it's a disadvantage to run MP in the same setup.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably the Crawlers + Mortek Guard with a 3+ rerolling winning the games and Katakros being in MP or Petrifex is the same, except better in Petrifex when it comes to the competitive option. So... Yeah I guess MP can be competitive but why would you when the same can be had easier in Petrifex?

Because that’s not the only competitive build and it’s super weak versus slaanesh

A praetorian list is much better

[Gwendar]

9 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:

Because that’s not the only competitive build and it’s super weak versus slaanesh

A praetorian list is much better

I wouldn't say 'super weak' at all. If you're building specifically against Slaanesh, sure, it would be better.. but I find most people seldom do that in a competitive environment and you take an all-comers list.

I'm not saying it isn't competitive as well, I just don't see the point unless you really wanna beat your friend playing Slaanesh 😉

[Gwendar]

On a somewhat-other-note, Australian masters was won by Mat with the following. Nice to see the 1x6 Stalkers doing well.. may pick some up next weekend and give them a go. Overall quite solid, I really like it.

[PortableMango]

That's pretty cool. Would it be more of the opponents didn't know how to counter such a new army? You wouldn't expect so since they are at a competitive event like that.

 

I don't meant to sound like he is a bad player or put him down.

Edited December 1, 2019 by PortableMango
Clarity

[Phasteon]

7 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@Phasteon We're already seeing Petrifex lists with 2 Crawlers doing quite well. Katakros is a great pick and the second option (or both together) of Arkhan is great as well.. so long as you have a +1 to hit (Katakros/Shrieker) and are grabbing those 6+ RDP then you're far better off just being Petrifex. If anything it's a disadvantage to run MP in the same setup.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably the Crawlers + Mortek Guard with a 3+ rerolling winning the games and Katakros being in MP or Petrifex is the same, except better in Petrifex when it comes to the competitive option. So... Yeah I guess MP can be competitive but why would you when the same can be had easier in Petrifex?

Because you cant give the Crawlers -1 rend anyway so its much better to give them rerolls to wound if you are playing 2 or even 3 of them.

Again, -1 rend is imo clearly the best CA in the book and maybe even in general when it comes to close combat buffs, but if you play for holding objectives with Mortek and killing keytargets from afar with Crawlers you might wanna consider going Praetorians with Katakros/Zandtos.

People are not doing it yet because the army is new and Petrifex is the better legion in general. But the all comers argument is bad since you are just at a pure disadvantage with Praetorians in a Death-mirror match. In every other match up your Crawlers will do more damage abd your Mortek Guard wont die anyway. 

 

Edit: I am talking about one specific build here, in every other case Petrifex is still better of course.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Phasteon

[StokieRich]

18 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Because you cant give the Crawlers -1 rend anyway so its much better to give them rerolls to wound if you are playing 2 or even 3 of them.

Again, -1 rend is imo clearly the best CA in the book and maybe even in general when it comes to close combat buffs, but if you play for holding objectives with Mortek and killing keytargets from afar with Crawlers you might wanna consider going Praetorians with Katakros/Zandtos.

People are not doing it yet because the army is new and Petrifex is the better legion in general. But the all comers argument is bad since you are just at a pure disadvantage with Praetorians in a Death-mirror match. In every other match up your Crawlers will do more damage abd your Mortek Guard wont die anyway. 

 

Edit: I am talking about one specific build here, in every other case Petrifex is still better of course.

Good shout I'd not considered the wound roll counted for the crawlers as well. In that case Zandtos goes up in value compared to what I had rated him at. 

RE: mortek guard not dying anyway I completely agree. I'm looking at null myriad as an option for the same reason, if they're not going to die whether a 3+ or a 4+ then it opens up options for protecting against magic, or run and charge etc. That other legions offer. 

Is more the rend ability that I like from the petrefex than the save, the two together just make them great. (took Gordrak off on Wednesday before he attacked by charging with mortek guard at 2s to hit, Re-rolling 1s, with 5+ giving 2 hits, and at - 2 rend. 

They're tanky anyway, but they hit so hard as well when buffed! 

[Phasteon]

2 hours ago, StokieRich said:

Good shout I'd not considered the wound roll counted for the crawlers as well. In that case Zandtos goes up in value compared to what I had rated him at. 

RE: mortek guard not dying anyway I completely agree. I'm looking at null myriad as an option for the same reason, if they're not going to die whether a 3+ or a 4+ then it opens up options for protecting against magic, or run and charge etc. That other legions offer. 

Is more the rend ability that I like from the petrefex than the save, the two together just make them great. (took Gordrak off on Wednesday before he attacked by charging with mortek guard at 2s to hit, Re-rolling 1s, with 5+ giving 2 hits, and at - 2 rend. 

They're tanky anyway, but they hit so hard as well when buffed! 

Thats the main reason I prefer Petrifex too. 

And i personally rate Arkhan over Katakros and cant spend points on them both so Praetorians are no option for me. 

I was just surprised about how competitive they actually were under Katakros‘ command. 

[Dolomyte]

2 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Thats the main reason I prefer Petrifex too. 

And i personally rate Arkhan over Katakros and cant spend points on them both so Praetorians are no option for me. 

I was just surprised about how competitive they actually were under Katakros‘ command. 

I hate arkhan, the extra points katakros adds too much in my opinion. Shutting down command points alone can swing a game against some armies. Obviously rolls dependent. 

[Gwendar]

5 hours ago, Phasteon said:

But the all comers argument is bad

It's not, though I suppose I'm worried about someone knocking enough wounds off Katakros and then you lose your 36" bubble of pseudo-petrifex. I dunno, either way it's fine I guess.
 

9 hours ago, PortableMango said:

That's pretty cool. Would it be more of the opponents didn't know how to counter such a new army?

I wouldn't think so... the Australian scene is pretty nuts, and I would argue one of (the most?) competitive in the world so I'm sure they all did their homework\played other OBR armies up to this point. Will be interesting to see how Cancon goes in January. I know he mentioned he would swap the Artisans Key for Gothizzar Catouche for +1 to wound in melee which I think would be a great change. I've found that while healing is great, I don't know that I would ever build around the healing in the army. 20 Mortek Guard tend to stay alive for an abhorrent amount of time without being healed much anyway and still hit back quite hard... that +1 to wound would really help with that on 1 unit.
 

17 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:

I hate arkhan, the extra points katakros adds too much in my opinion. Shutting down command points alone can swing a game against some armies. Obviously rolls dependent. 

I also have a hard time deciding to run Arkhan and not just Katakros\smaller heroes. The games I've had being able to spend that RDP on anything and everything is too great and without it I feel I would struggle a bit more. Most of the time I see Arkhan getting those backfield objectives with Protection of Nagash but seldom find him doing much else unless it's getting a lucky Curse of Years.

[PortableMango]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I wouldn't think so... the Australian scene is pretty nuts, and I would argue one of (the most?) competitive in the world so I'm sure they all did their homework\played other OBR armies up to this point. Will be interesting to see how Cancon goes in January.

Damn, I didn't know our scene was that good. That's awesome for everyone.

 

I hope he can keep coming up with awesome lists using all the units available.

[Bryan I Guess]

Has anyone tested big blobs of 15 Deathriders? People always worry about large groups of cavalry not being able to fight with everyone but with a 6" pile in after CA and a 2" reach with spears I think that's less of a problem.

[StokieRich]

9 minutes ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Has anyone tested big blobs of 15 Deathriders? People always worry about large groups of cavalry not being able to fight with everyone but with a 6" pile in after CA and a 2" reach with spears I think that's less of a problem.

I've run 2x10 but not 15, I think you'd struggle to get value but interested to hear if prime have used them that way with success

[Dolomyte]

So this time I tried to pilot bonereapers instead of playing against them. Did not have enough guard to run the list I really wanted but I did have the following

petrifex elite

katakros

boneshaper w/ godbone armor and drain vigor spell

2x 20 mortek guard

1x 10 mortek guard

2x mortek crawlers

1x harvester

shield corps 

Opponent ran skaven

wizard on a bell with death frenzy

wizard on foot with skitterleap

engineer built to buff storm fiends and with a rocket

3x 20 clanrats

2x 40 plague monks

6x storm fiends 

A random endless spell to do mortal wounds

we got scorched earth which was honestly next to places of arcane power one of the ones I was most worried about. 
 

I finished deploying well in advance of him and took first turn. Left 10 mortek in woods guarding one objective, left crawlers on the others, and moved a block of 20 protecting katakros up the middle and a block of 20 with the harvester and shaper up the right. No spells were in range and I had left the terrain piece at home so nothing big in hero phase.

in shooting I buffed the attacks of the crawlers and put Everything into the storm fiends as I realized shooting would be my biggest concern. Did 5 wounds and he failed all 5 4ups, go me. He killed both melee fiends and one flamer fiend, the other flamer was down to a single wound

his turn he death frenzied a unit of plague monks, skitterleaped his caster into an opening behind my army and tried to cast warp lighting vortex but failed. The bell randomly did the minus 1 to hit thing, he shot some stuff fairly ineffectually maybe killing three mortek as the storm fiends tried to distance themselves from catapults 

turn 2 roll off and I kept initiative.

I did katakros plus one to hit army wide, healed the three who had died back to full and failed to cast a spell with the shaper, movement is where I lost the game. I let the two blocks of mortek advance up to get into charge position on the clanrats but stupidly sent the harvester back to deal with the wizard. I would have been better off letting him contest the objective or just charging him with the crawlers or even wasted one to shoot him. More on that mistake later.

shooting I put the crawlers into his plague monks on the left flank that were going up the board fairly uncontested. Did 4 wounds and he saved 2 so 10 plague monks died. Mortek charged 2 units of 20 clanrats and harvester charged wizard. One unit of mortek went first and killed 15, he went with other unit and killed 4, I took out 14 of that unit, he killed 1, and then harvester killed caster. one unit was within bell range so ignored morale the other fled off table.

he went. Spells went off better this time, cracks call killed 6, frenzy got off again despite my best intentions, stormfiends got buffed up, endless spell went off and did mortals to both crawlers , my mortek and katakros, movement he positioned chargers and advanced towards my objective holding 10 with his last 20 man unit. Shooting from stormfiends and rocket killed 18 of the healthy mortek unit(and this is where my moving the harvester away was stupid, I could have had 9 or so survive that) He charged the two remaining with stormfiends and one unit of 40 monks into the 14 man unit. The 108 attacks of the plague monks rolled fairly well for me, barely any rend, so I only lost half my unit from the volley, 3 up reroll is tough against no rend, daughters watch out. I killed a few back, 8 maybe, and lost two more to mortal wounds but was not super worried. My two remaining from the more hurt unit managed to survive and only Go to 1 but did not kill anything back themselves. 20 rats killed 2 mortek and only lost 8, so he burnt objective they were on for only 1 point. Minor lead to him. 
 

turn roll went in his favor and that was pretty much game. Had I been able To go I would have healed one unit 6 and another 3, gotten harvester back in range and gotten another healthy round of shooting with the crawlers I may have taken out some of the threat of the plague monks and turned it around, as it was he shot slash spelled remaining mortek to death and I was down to unit of 8, one crawler that was engaged with 30 frenzied plague monks and katakros and the harvester. 

So the combo of not having the terrain piece to try and keep minus 1 to hit on the stormfiends, forgetting katakros can also put minus 1 to hit on something, stupidly worrying about a wizard with just skitterleap, and getting double turn cost me the game.

I had fun and so did my opponent, neither of us felt overwhelmed by the opposing army which for a really competitive skaven list and crawler spam I think was good. Will he miss 5 4 up saves in the future? Probably not. Will I abandon the mortek in the future? Definitely not. 

[Lord marcus]

Behold the Scions of Cripple Peak

[Arcian]

23 hours ago, Lord marcus said:

Behold the Scions of Cripple Peak

 

"Yeah, living under the Ossiarch's rule isn't so bad. They just occasionally come by every few years and take a knee bone from every citizen. But hey, at least we get to keep our money!"

[TheKingInYellow]

Played two games this weekend with this Praetorians list:

• Katakros
• Soulmason
• 2 x 20 Mortek Guard w/ Blades
• 5 x Deathriders w/ Blades
• 2 x Crawler
• Harvester
• Carrion and Shrieker
• Nexus

Beat a Hunter heavy Winterleaf Sylvaneth list and a Hallowheart Hurricanum/Multicaster list w/ 30 Phoenix Guard and a Phoenix.  In both cases the Crawlers did the most valuable work, pegging the Arch Revenant in the top of round one to take away the Hunter support, and wounding the Hurricanum badly enough in turn one to prevent it channeling before systematically picking out the casters in the following rounds.

The Sylvaneth game was still close.  2 packs of six hunters and 70 Dryads on the board to start, with a Wraith hiding in the woods summoning more each turn.  I lost the Harvester, one Crawler and the Deathriders in this game but managed to win.  The Hallowheart list folded like a lawnchair once I crippled the casters.  One unit of 20 guard with Harvester support and a constant -1/-2 to hit from the Scrollbearer and the Nexus completely neutered the PG unit, even with Phoenix support.  The Harvester basically killed the Phoenix on his own while keeping the Mortek Guard up and running, and then piled in to help finish the job.  Tabled the opponent and ended up losing only eight Mortek Guard in the end, most of those to a unit of 40 Swordsmen with Burning Ward on them exploding.

I'm happy with this list overall, but I think the Shrieker is redundant, and the Mason despite having two casts really wasn't effective.  I'll likely drop them both and add in another Crawler or maybe a Liege. 

 

[Lord marcus]

4 hours ago, Arcian said:

"Yeah, living under the Ossiarch's rule isn't so bad. They just occasionally come by every few years and take a knee bone from every citizen. But hey, at least we get to keep our money!"

Hmmm?

[Arcian]

24 minutes ago, Lord marcus said:

Hmmm?

Sorry! The name "Scions of cripple peak" gave me a mental image of the OBR taking tithes that rendered the local populace physically crippled 😅

[Lord marcus]

20 hours ago, Arcian said:

Sorry! The name "Scions of cripple peak" gave me a mental image of the OBR taking tithes that rendered the local populace physically crippled 😅

Haha!

 

It's actually a reference to Nagash's stronghold after defeat from Alcaddizzar the great

[Sception]

I wonder if a mortal society ruled by vampires and worshipping nagash could negotiate a more sustainable tithe.