StokieRich

Hmm I see that point of view, and perhaps wouldn't protest so vigorously, however with not having that AOS 2.0 background (I only played a little of it) I would say this reads to be pretty conclusive to me that if you have sub factions artefacts and traits they want you to take one of those first.

I strongly disagree, at times there are rules that are poorly written and/or could be misinterpreted. This isn't one of them. It is very clear to me, let's take them one at a time: 1.) "If that allegiance abilities for a subfaction include a command trait (yes) and the general of your army has the keyword for that subfaction (yes), then that command trait must be the one you give to your general" How do you possibly misinterpret that?!?! 2.) If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact of power (yes) and any HEROES in your army have the keyword for that subfaction (yes), then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power given to one of those HEROES. On this one there is a TINY bit of wriggle room, but if you REALLY push it and try and say that it doesn't include those with lists because it says "that" rather than "one of those" (and I really think that is pushing it) then the rule still doesn't work at all because you have to apply the rule (you're a yes to both questions) I really think this is wishful thinking and I would think it would be VERY poor form to try and game this and say that this would allow you to choose a generic artefact as your first. Full disclosure here by the way: I have been running Amulet of Destiny in Soulblight but after reading this rule I am fully of the opinion that I should not be doing so and need to go with one of the Kastelai faction artefacts.

1.) Yes 2.) Choose one 3.) Hit>Wound>Save>Transfer>Ward

One more from me that is more of a, " is this correct" As it stands a character who takes Morbhegs claw can make a Run move as it is only restricted from performing a Normal Move, Shoot, Charge, is this intended? Details: Morbheg’s Claw This blackened talon is said to belong to Morbheg, father of Terrorgheists. In your hero phase, you can say that the bearer will carve sigils into the ground using Morbheg’s claw. If you do so, add 2 to casting rolls for friendly LEGION OF NIGHT WIZARDS wholly within 12" of the bearer until your next hero phase. However, the bearer cannot make a normal move, make a charge move, shoot or fight until your next hero phase. 8.1 NORMAL MOVE When you pick a unit to make a normal move, you can move each model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on the unit’s warscroll. Units cannot move within 3" of enemy units when making a normal move. 8.2 RETREAT When you pick a unit to retreat, you can move each model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on the unit’s warscroll. The unit must end the move more than 3" from all enemy units. You cannot shoot or attempt a charge later in the turn with a unit that has retreated. 8.3 RUN When you pick a unit to run, you must make a run roll for the unit by rolling a dice. Add the run roll to the Move characteristic of all models in the unit until the end of that phase. You can then move each model in that unit a distance in inches equal to or less than their modified Move characteristic. No part of a run can be within 3" of an enemy unit. You cannot shoot or attempt a charge later in the turn with a unit that has run

I played this list on Wednesday night against Sylvaneth in my first game of AOS 3.0 - Really enjoyed it and most fun I've had in a long time, could have gone either way to the end. Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords- Lineage: Kastelai DynastyLeadersVampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)- General- Deathlance- Command Trait: Rousing Commander- Artefact: Grave-sand Shard- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine PinionsBelladamma Volga, First of the Vyrkos (200)- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine OrbRadukar the Beast (315) // Extra 10 Dire Wolves T1Battleline10 x Dire Wolves (135)10 x Dire Wolves (135)5 x Blood Knights (195)5 x Blood Knights (195)5 x Blood Knights (195)5 x Blood Knights (195) // OutflankedTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 135 (Double Battle Regiment - 2 drop) --------------------- I played against: Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Glade: Dreadwood Leaders Branchwych (80) - Artefact: The Vesperal Gem - Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines Spirit of Durthu (300) - General - Command Trait: Paragon of Terror - Artefact: Jewel of Withering Spirit of Durthu (300) Treelord Ancient (260) - Deepwood Spell: Regrowth Arch-Revenant (100) Battleline 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 5 x Tree-Revenants (80) 5 x Tree-Revenants (80) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) Units 6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380) - Scythes Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Spiteswarm Hive (50) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 116 --------------------- I didn't take any pictures so won't go through the whole game but overall I was really impressed with the army, I didn't get a lot of value from the MW from the Blood Knights as he has a LOT of stuff I couldn't move over, but they did a few times on the smaller units and discounting the MW, the ability to get out then charge back in was fantastic. I gave him the first turn and got the double on turn 2, kept it from then until Turn 5 when he got it back. Scores ended 22-20 to me with the Grand Strategy making the difference. Blood Knights I really enjoyed, feels like they're in a different place now, they hit reasonably well on the charge but the main thing is they're so much more tanky now as I was regularly putting them on a 2+ with All Out Defence when they are charged, to then retreat out and charge back in. For 195pts I think they're a bargain. Still think the Kastelai buffs are a bit gimmicky as normally you'll only really see the +2" speed one, and then you only get it after you've killed a unit so it only really matters late game if they survive. +1 damage sounds fantastic (and it is) but you have to go hero hunting to get it really. I think in future I'll go with the run and charge ability instead as the VLOZD was fantastic, he'd be really scary with a Run command point making him 20" before a charge. (26" if you get Pinions off) Seen people Poo Poo Dire Wolves with new coherency rules but 10 of them still covers huge space and they're fast so you're able to get them places quickly to claim/contest objectives. 20 wounds on a 5+ 6+ is pretty tanky as well!

Definitely agree with this mate, Had the *pleasure* to play against DoK with 15 Bow Snakes as well, 60 shots per turn (Hero phase and shooting) at 24" range (32" with a move) does on average 10 MW without even rolling the rest of the hits/wounds/saves! With that sort of MW output at range it feels like a good save just won't help you. You have a good chance of just picking up the VLOZD before he does anything.

Has anyone figured out how radukar and belladamma interact together on a 6 to hit? Would you get both going off and one being 2mw then you get an extra hit pop in that you roll for, or would you just get the benefit of one?

If you're playing petrefex elite which is certainly the competitive option atm, then you're going to want to build the kavalos.

I'm sure it'd be decent mate but I think 40 10 10 is better than 20 20 10 as that 40 is just so, so good. You're also splitting what you have to maintain those buffs on as to buff 2x20 to have reroll saves is 4cp a round, whereas to buff the 40 is just 2 (which you get for free with the battalion) The battalion feels to me like 3rdp a turn for 120pts, plus lowers your drops so I wouldn't want to drop it. Having said that though mate none of us have likely played enough games to, "figure out" what the best is, so go for it and let us know what your experiences are and we can all benefit 😊 In my experience when a big nasty unit charges the 20 they might kill say 10-15 and your return punch is neutered. If they kill 10-15 of your 40, they're very, very likely to just die in return from the other 25-30 guard with 50-60 rend 2 attacks. If nothing else that massively changes how they play the game as they can't really take on that 40 at all in combat.

Apologies for doubles post

For 130pts you could bring 10 more mortek which is more than he's likely to bring back and I'm not sure the extra 10 mortek won't do more than the boneshaper will. At 1k I've been liking this: Soulmason 40 mortek 10 mortek 10 mortek Mortek shield corps Bone shrieker Whilst low on rdp the shield Corp gives you 2 free shield walls per round so I haven't felt particularly short. 40 mortek can deal with pretty much everything (killed a frost lord on stonehorn (metalcruncher) with ethereal amulet last time out. The other 2 units of 10 are still legit at that point level and gives you a good chunk of mortek for bigger games

oh dear, hadn't considered that

isn't that the idea?

Yea that's fair mate and the list doesn't benefit as much from LoB now that those changes have been made for sure. I'd not considered Arkhan and was therefore thinking I had to be in Blood for Nef. Having said that it looks very different in Sacrament. It's not just a case of swapping a 140pt Vampire Lord out for Arkhan, you'd have to lose the coach as well, and you can't run the battalion without it looking like a vastly different list. I'd be up for trying Nef, Arkhan, VLOZD though with the 2x10 Hexwraith package and see how that gets on, I think that'd be an interesting one to try thanks mate!

I get that Legion of Blood aren't top tier but I've been playing them a while and I don't get some of the complaints, they're comfortably mid tier with Nef even before the points drop. Bit of a dump here but I felt these comments about Nef and LoB not being any good are inaccurate. This is what I took to Blood and Glory, I didn't exactly smash face but I was happy with 3-1 and a forfeit to watch the rugby day 1: Neferata VLOZD with Eth Amulet 2 x 5 Blood Knights 2 x 10 Hexwraiths 3 x 5 Dire Wolves ------ Since Blood and Glory I've removed the Blood Knights as whilst they can hit pretty hard on the charge they just melt in return to most things. New list looks like this: Neferata VLOZD with Eth Amulet Vampire Lord on Foot Black Coach 2 x 10 Hexwraiths 3 x 5 Dire Wolves It is absolutely disgusting to try and kill. Front screen is Dogs, behind those are Hexwraiths. Most of the time the opponent will be -2 to hit against your 4+ ethereal Hexwraiths with a 6+ death save. Once you've received the charge unless they do 20 wounds into your Hexwraiths you're then replacing D3 models from the black coach, plus you'll likely have 5-7 rolls from Graveyards and Heroes returning a model on a 3+. It's just fantastic at the attrition game. If you need an opponents objective, just retreat with your super fast Hexwraiths over them and sit on it. If they do manage to kill them all, bringing 10 Hexwraiths back for 1 cp is great. It comes undone a bit to magic, but against a combat army (and often shooting if you march Neffy up early) it can completely neuter them. I'm not saying it's top tier, but it's competitive, and my second list there just went down another 80pts so you could upgrade the Vampire on foot to something else (Olynder, Reikenor or Kurdoss(+ a cp), 2nd Black Coach are all options)

Why the shrieker and Katakros? Seems like you're doubling up on +1 to hit? Other than that seems solid, I've been using 40/20/20 Guard with 2 crawlers Katakros and Soulmason and been very strong, I like you managing to get the Soul Reservoir in but I feel moving from a 40 right down to a 10 to get those extras might not be worth it. Love the suggestion on splitting Godbone and Archaeossian, I'd never considered that but a great shout in the mirror Thanks for sharing!

really helpful thanks. I don't think Arkhan has gone down in points though from what I can see? Think it was just Nef and Manny

I appreciate not in Soulblight but she's pretty solid in legion of blood. Stacking her command ability can be pretty disgusting once things are - 2 to hit. I took her to blood and glory and did OK with 3-1 and a forfeit to watch the rugby. Not saying she's amazing but I think she worked pretty well pre points drop. Having said that I can now get her in plus have an extra command point so I'm not complaining!

Disagree due to reasons in my above post. Yes they're playing other serious tournament players but they're also playing non serious players, I'm not sure I get your point (not trying to be rude maybe I'm missing something here?) I don't think there really is any "new to this faction" - there may be some nuances but we can see what's good and why.

Yes this, the OBR players are all players who've smashed that army out to take it to tournaments. There are no casual players at all and I think it's a fair assumption they'llall pretty much be taking what they feel are highly competitive lists. Other armies such as ogres and cities will have a lot of hobby players who are happy to be getting their toys back on the table, therefore will likely be much lower as a result. To be clear I'm absolutely not saying that the OBR aren't great, but let's give it some time before saying these figures are representative of a good selection of the player base

One thing I've not seen mentioned anywhere is that I would think that anyone who has actually painted and taken OBR to an event so far is pretty serious about AOS. You've pretty much removed any casual players from the stats by the fact that they've only very recently come out. We are likely to see those win rates drop considerably once more casual players start getting their armies fully painted and taking them to tourneys. I definitely think their powerful (specifically PE) but we can't make judgements on their current win rate as all of those players are very likely to be serious tournament players.

What leak mate?

I think it looks silly having more than one in the unit so I'll keep playing with just one and accept that it's not optimal. Having said that, if it gets sniped out you can use one of your "heal 3 dudes" abilities to put it back in the unit.

Yea that's cool mate I get that. I agree to me also they look better and you're right, if 20 of each are attacking you're only getting approx 3 more wounds through from the blades so it's not as if you're taking a huge hit. Max potential output is a fair view as well, personally I'd value the free extra wounds a round more (they get more value out of +1 attack as well) but I can see a solid argument for spears instead!

Yea but the only advantage the spears have is they get more attacks in because of the reach. If my opponent kills a decent number, I just take them from the back and so the swords end up with just as many attacks as the spears in some situations. I like that I can afford to lose 10-20 of my mortek with absolutely no loss in combat effectiveness, and they're likely to kill whatever just charged in and did that with a huge amount of rend 2 attacks back.