Nezzhil Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 43 minutes ago, Elarin said: The launch box will be released on the 29th of June. We will see all contents of the box during a preview in May, but I guess they will start showing some single models earlier like last year with 40k. I heard preorder is 22th and It will come first July week after two preorder weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 24 minutes ago, ArtistDog said: You're welcome to as many "Sigmar secretly bad" headcanons as you like, but respectfully no, he's not an insecure abusive maniac & this isn't 40K. Him not being the Emperor of mankind dosent mean he isn't a despot. 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis117 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 1 minute ago, Nos said: Him not being the Emperor of mankind dosent mean he isn't a despot. He's certainly less of a despot that Big E, but they've still been pushing the Azyrite colonialism theme quite heavily lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 BTW the newsletter website has shown some art in the background of what look to be Ruination guardian fighting Clan rats on the Stormcast section while the Skaven section is just crop art of the Blight city bursting into the realm art i already shown off btw how you guys post mutiple images? is like the same as other forums with [IMG] [/IMG] ? 2 hours ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Boxset not even reval and has i.pact the setting more then Kragnos and the kruleboyz. Don't know if that a feat or a fault of 3e narrative. Already hype for where this is going which why AoS edges 40k or ToW/WHF in terms on an ongoing narrative as the setting feeel like it progressing and almost every faction is a major player who react to the big power moves which actually impact the setting aside from "this insinificant planet got annihilated". Even when it hits a low point it won't just stay there for long 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 28 minutes ago, ArtistDog said: You're welcome to as many "Sigmar secretly bad" headcanons as you like, but respectfully no, he's not an insecure abusive maniac & this isn't 40K. He's not evil but he's definitely a bit of a ****, just looking at a lot of the stuff he's done and is currently doing. The worst of which is colonising the native peoples of the realms with the crusades, especially now that GW are pushing the narrative angle that the darkoath aren't all just insane chaos worshippers but kinda just regular people forced into a life of violence. Also using the stormcast to oppress opposition and cull civilians like in vindicarum, indirectly or not he's still responsible. I really like the angle of the SCE going from liberators to brutal police force, their souls are being slowly stripped away both metaphorically and literally. It's Warhammer, he's not supposed to be some perfect hero who does no wrong, he's got to do wars so the game can happen. 2 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmarusvult Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 12 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: I heard preorder is 22th and It will come first July week after two preorder weeks. Seems like a long way in the future, It’s going to be a challenge to keep the hype from now on till July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 57 minutes ago, Elarin said: Unfortunately, I don't know much besides some random dates and small rumours, but so just to show that these are not only reasonable guesses on my part: the next free model in Warhammer Stores is going to be a Deathwing Knight 😁 Any small rumor is more than a feast for us if it mean more ruination SE. Praise Elarin the wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 59 minutes ago, Goatforce said: That is rather reductive. It depends on the extent of said "torment" on either side. If the torment is just rather aggressive non-consentual tickling in order to stop an army of murderous sociopaths, for example, is tickling worse than the mass murder of said sociopaths because it is done in the name of a good cause (stopping mass murder)? Obviously not. An extreme example obviously but then "Non conseual torment in the name of good is worse than non consensual torment that's honest about what it actually is" is also a pretty extreme take. Also serve or die is generally the deal offered by the ruinous powers, presenting them as offering meaningful choices to their followers is rather questionable. Is it something less sinister than this sometimes? Yeah. But those who go to Chaos by choice tend to be psychopaths who would do anything for power, or simply enjoy killing, torturing and other unpleasant things which are enjoyed by the gods of chaos. Also Chaos "rewards" aren't necessarily good, and often have the effect of turning individuals into tormented masses of flesh and hate. Oh and they also punish on a whim, of course. Oh Sigmar is no saint, I have never claimed that. But an insecure abusive maniac? He created a pantheon of gods with rather diverse views and goals, which is hardly the action of a megalomaniacal control freak. His most questionable acts are generally done to stop the advances of a cause that wishes to destroy everything and embody the very worst aspects of existence (war, hate, despair, disease, sadism, etc), they are not done out of a desire to cause pain to others (by which I mean innocents, rather than said embodiments of destruction who invaded a relatively peaceful reality), and intent matters. Also he likely would have done nothing nearly as unethical if his back was not put against the wall (I would argue that in a situation where your survival was at stake you would do some pretty shady things to get out of it, as would anyone). I find it curious that you seem to regard Sigmar as badly or worse than the Chaos Gods, because he believes he is doing the right thing - which overall he is trying to do, even if his methods are highly questionable. *Everybody* believes they're doing the right thing as they see it. That's not a virtue. You judge people by their actions, not their intentions, intentions are worthless. Sigmar's actions, whatever their genesis or intent, are the actions of a tyrant. So are those of pretty much all of the pantheon, of course. But Sigmarism clothes itself in a piety and assertion of riteousness which translates to a hypocrisy given the actual workings of its god 4 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) -4 weeks of april showing 4 miniatures/units from the starter box -Reveal of the starter box at the beginning of may -Dawnbringers 6 -Rules and previews from the rulebook during the rest of may -Starter box preorders start on 22nd of June -Release day 2 weeks after -Rest of skavens model showed on july -Skaven wave coming on september-october Edited March 22 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: BTW the newsletter website has shown some art in the background of what look to be Ruination guardian fighting Clan rats on the Stormcast section while the Skaven section is just crop art of the Blight city bursting into the realm art i already shown off btw how you guys post mutiple images? is like the same as other forums with [IMG] [/IMG] ? To post images I just use right-click > copy, paste. Repeat for as many images as you want. Also, it is interesting to see that in this pic what in the trailer looked like a Space Marine shoulder pad it is indeed a mail under the Shoulder armour. Edited March 21 by Ejecutor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatforce Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 16 minutes ago, Nos said: *Everybody* believes they're doing the right thing as they see it. That's not a virtue. You judge people by their actions, not their intentions, intentions are worthless. Sigmar's actions, whatever their genesis or intent, are the actions of a tyrant. So are those of pretty much all of the pantheon, of course. But Sigmarism clothes itself in a piety and assertion of riteousness which translates to a hypocrisy given the actual workings of its god Attempting to save reality from destruction by the hordes of hell, and the souls of billions from eternal torment is virtuous, there is no two ways about it. Ah yes, taking extreme actions during a war for survival, how evil. I suppose the Allies were just as bad as the Axis then? Acting in desparation is not inherantly evil. Yes Sigmar has performed tyrannical actions, though the context of the situation is important. Yes you judge actions, but again intent gives context to them, stealing is generally regarded as bad, but one would regard a thief who steals food for their child as different from a thief who simply wishes to profit from the work of others. The act is the same, the intent gives very different context to their actions and thus is important. A god who is basically the last line of defence from the utter ruination of reality can probably be forgiven, or at least understood out of bare necessity, for doing some unethical things if it gives millions or even billions protection from the awful things chaos would do to them. Yes the Sigmarites do bad things in his name, and there is inherent hypocrisy in them (as in most), but once again they are literally in a struggle against the forces of hell. I think it is pretty clear which side is in the right overall, I mean it isn't really ambiguous in any way, despite Sigmar's obvious shortcomings. I really find it strange that this point needs to be argued. Is sigmar the best guy? No. But seriously he is fighting against unambiguous and unconscionable evil. Oh, and to circle back to your claim that Chaos is "honest", which I didn't address, seriously? Chaos gods are notorious for tricking and entrapping people to claim their souls, they are incredibly unscrupulous. One of them is literally dedicated to that kind of thing. I am not sure why you're going so hard on Sigmar whilst seemingly running defence for the Chaos gods 🤣 Seems like a very odd hill to choose 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Having re-watched the cinematic I must say that I really like it. Starting by being felled in battle after putting up a hell of a fight, chosen and stolen from Nagash (who looked fantastic) being killed across the epochs Chaos, Necro and Beast then seeing Blight City manifest in the realms. (We assume that this has only happened in Aqshy, but I wonder if Skaven have appeared elsewhere) If the 40k cinematic is anything to go by, the stuff we saw in the trailer will be a pretty accurate representation of what we will see in model form. Man... I wish GW would sort out their Amazon, Warhammer + stuff. This trailer could easily be the basis of a full series. Would be awesome. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-knight77 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) Ok so for the sake of just speculation (not tabletop side so forgive on list doesn't line up game wise) to compare to Leviathan SM & Nid had 8 units each so to The Stormcast already confirmed to be in the box Liberator Prosecutors Storm lord on Raven-gryphon Stormcast custodes (the ones down below) So there another half yet to reveal.What I think It could be Paladins (I assume what the SG Warhound leaked image) The cover art guy Another Ruination chamber unit (maybe a storm-ghiest behemoth?) Skaven already confirmed to be in the box Clawlord on giant rat Clan rats Rat ogre Jezzail The Hyper warp-ratling cannonade other i think we'll see Stormvermin Greyseer Edited March 22 by Dragon-knight77 new info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draznak Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 7 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said: Skaven already confirmed to be in the box Clawlord on giant rat Clan rats Rat ogre Jezzail You forgot the gatling machine. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 34 minutes ago, Goatforce said: Attempting to save reality from destruction by the hordes of hell, and the souls of billions from eternal torment is virtuous, there is no two ways about it. Ah yes, taking extreme actions during a war for survival, how evil. I suppose the Allies were just as bad as the Axis then? Acting in desparation is not inherantly evil. Yes Sigmar has performed tyrannical actions, though the context of the situation is important. Yes you judge actions, but again intent gives context to them, stealing is generally regarded as bad, but one would regard a thief who steals food for their child as different from a thief who simply wishes to profit from the work of others. The act is the same, the intent gives very different context to their actions and thus is important. A god who is basically the last line of defence from the utter ruination of reality can probably be forgiven, or at least understood out of bare necessity, for doing some unethical things if it gives millions or even billions protection from the awful things chaos would do to them. Yes the Sigmarites do bad things in his name, and there is inherent hypocrisy in them (as in most), but once again they are literally in a struggle against the forces of hell. I think it is pretty clear which side is in the right overall, I mean it isn't really ambiguous in any way, despite Sigmar's obvious shortcomings. I really find it strange that this point needs to be argued. Is sigmar the best guy? No. But seriously he is fighting against unambiguous and unconscionable evil. Oh, and to circle back to your claim that Chaos is "honest", which I didn't address, seriously? Chaos gods are notorious for tricking and entrapping people to claim their souls, they are incredibly unscrupulous. One of them is literally dedicated to that kind of thing. I am not sure why you're going so hard on Sigmar whilst seemingly running defence for the Chaos gods 🤣 Seems like a very odd hill to choose You're repeating the classic colonial power justification for war crimes; Its for the greater good, means justify the ends, it will secure peace/save lives etc. Morality as equation rather than through something which respects dignity and sanctity of life. That's what Sigmar is. My perspective on Sigmarism is through the lense of studying history in which the worst excesses of humanity have been excused by a mandate of good intentions. Sigmar embodies humanity in that regard; a capacity to perpetrate wrongs with the delusion that it is a moral imperative to do so even though the people doing sausage wrongs are terrified of others doing the exact same thing to them. The crusades are a case in point. Anyone with the most basic understanding of what that word means knows that they have never been anything besides, at best, a gross moral compromise and more than not an act of tyranny and total depravity in the name of something holy. I haven't at any point *defended* Chaos. I've simply stated that they are honest about their ambitions and naked lust for control. Which they are. Some of them are deceitful within their wider machinations of how to bring their ambitions about but there is no mistaking what they are doing in the round, and why. That's always been the joke with chaos since the beginning- entropy that nonetheless has 4 very specific and simple elements to it. I haven't said its good, or cool or anything of the sort. 2 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) Someone asked about 2 or 4 legs on the "Gryphraven" due to the art. It has 4 in the trailer. Also more interestingly, just noticed that some Annihilators are present and in a rough scale to the new elite units the trailers main lady is from - who are presumably ruination version Retributors (insert new paladin name here). The sun/comet trail collar is very reminiscent of them also. Retributors are also 404 for me on the AU shopfront, which is interesting: Edited March 22 by GloomkingWortwazi formatting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealven Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, Nos said: You're repeating the classic colonial power justification for war crimes; Its for the greater good, means justify the ends, it will secure peace/save lives etc. Morality as equation rather than through something which respects dignity and sanctity of life. That's what Sigmar is. My perspective on Sigmarism is through the lense of studying history in which the worst excesses of humanity have been excused by a mandate of good intentions. Sigmar embodies humanity in that regard; a capacity to perpetrate wrongs with the delusion that it is a moral imperative to do so even though the people doing sausage wrongs are terrified of others doing the exact same thing to them. The crusades are a case in point. Anyone with the most basic understanding of what that word means knows that they have never been anything besides, at best, a gross moral compromise and more than not an act of tyranny and total depravity in the name of something holy. I haven't at any point *defended* Chaos. I've simply stated that they are honest about their ambitions and naked lust for control. Which they are. Some of them are deceitful within their wider machinations of how to bring their ambitions about but there is no mistaking what they are doing in the round, and why. That's always been the joke with chaos since the beginning- entropy that nonetheless has 4 very specific and simple elements to it. I haven't said its good, or cool or anything of the sort. It's kind of disingenuous to claim Sigmar as a purely colonial power when many of the Stormcast were inhabitants of the Mortal Realms who were forced to flee from their homes by the forces of chaos or were killed trying to defend them. Yndrasta, Bastian, and Vandus spring to mind but I'm sure there were more. Is it really colonialism when you are fighting to take back your old home? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 13 minutes ago, Nos said: ...snip... 2 minutes ago, Sealven said: ...snip... Could you please kindly take that discussion to DMs so we can get the thread focused back to rumors? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealven Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 12 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: Someone asked about 2 or 4 legs on the "Gryphraven" due to the art. It has 4 in the trailer. Also more interestingly, just noticed that some Annihilators are present and in a rough scale to the new elite units the trailers main lady is from - who are presumably ruination version Retributors (insert new paladin name here). The sun/comet trail collar is very reminiscent of them also. Retributors are also 404 for me on the AU shopfront, which is interesting: Weird, they're still showing up on the US shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said: Sounds like it's everywhere, but focused on the Great Parch. hoping this means we see updated maps of more of the Realms? i'm not really a stickler over precise land maps, but even something akin to the 1e fantasy maps they did would be wonderful 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sealven said: Weird, they're still showing up on the US shop. 16 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said: Retributors are also 404 for me on the AU shopfront, which is interesting: I haven't kept up to date on available kits for SCE since dropping them as an army near the start of 3rd - but it appears the only AoS1 Box unit available is the Liberators, unless you want to grab the Start Collecting Thunderstrike Brotherhood box. I'm assuming that isn't a new change now - or is maybe a regional thing then? Edited March 22 by GloomkingWortwazi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomkingWortwazi Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Oh, it appears to be a listing oddity. They're on the AU store as Decimators with the "build as whatever" note, as are a few of the units I mentioned above. Weird that the different regions have them listed under different build options. 🤨 False alarm then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 hours ago, Asbestress said: Pretty good reveal show. Not a huge fan of the Flagellant warband , but still nice to have some new Devoted. I might try covering up the priest's robes so that the guy underneath isn't visible, as that's probably my main gripe with them. As for 4.0... Which 1/3 of the Parch are we thinking is going under? hey uhh what if Edassa is the one that falls? if Hammerhal is under attack this feels like where the third might be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatforce Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Nos said: You're repeating the classic colonial power justification for war crimes; Its for the greater good, means justify the ends, it will secure peace/save lives etc. Morality as equation rather than through something which respects dignity and sanctity of life. That's what Sigmar is. My perspective on Sigmarism is through the lense of studying history in which the worst excesses of humanity have been excused by a mandate of good intentions. Sigmar embodies humanity in that regard; a capacity to perpetrate wrongs with the delusion that it is a moral imperative to do so even though the people doing sausage wrongs are terrified of others doing the exact same thing to them. The crusades are a case in point. Anyone with the most basic understanding of what that word means knows that they have never been anything besides, at best, a gross moral compromise and more than not an act of tyranny and total depravity in the name of something holy. I haven't at any point *defended* Chaos. I've simply stated that they are honest about their ambitions and naked lust for control. Which they are. Some of them are deceitful within their wider machinations of how to bring their ambitions about but there is no mistaking what they are doing in the round, and why. That's always been the joke with chaos since the beginning- entropy that nonetheless has 4 very specific and simple elements to it. I haven't said its good, or cool or anything of the sort. Oh my god, wow, really? I'm sorry but you do realise that the conflict of AoS is based upon an encroachment upon the Mortal Realms by Chaos right? They are the "colonial power" in this case and I am arguing that in order to resist them, yes, some bad things are going to have to be done, this is often demonstrated in history when there is a war in which there is a highly uneven balance of power. I'm sorry but comparing justifications for war crimes in our history with a fantasy in which it is absolutely certain everyone dies at best or becomes an eternal toy for evil gods at worst if Order loses (or rather Chaos wins) is unhinged. Once again, in real history eldrich gods weren't actively invading the world, and hadn't taken over the vast majority of it, Sigmar is not acting as a land grabbing despot - at least in the sense we would usually use - he is acting as the leader of a resistance movement who is hopelessly outgunned and whose allies are unreliable at best, oh and the fate of reality does actually hang in the balance. This is the problem with your argument, yes history is rife with claims of moral imperatives and securing peace etc as a justification for war and tyranny, but this is a story where that is tangibly true. Chaos needs to be stopped there is no getting around that fact, it is not a false flag, it is an absolute truth of the setting. Chaos has almost won and has to be stopped. "but in history people made this claim to do bad things" is just as absurd a statement as it is obvious. In history 90% of the world was not occupied by embodyments of horror. My point here is when you say "Non conseual torment in the name of good is worse than non consensual torment that's honest about what it actually is. + the Chaos Gods are actually give you a choice to serve them and rewards for doing so." you are heavily implying that Sigmar is worse than Chaos, in fact you are pretty much stating it. You are stating that Sigmar's methods to save the world (and that is absolutely what he is trying to do, and it is not propaganda) make him worse that the powers attempting to destroy it, as at least they are honest about being utterly and completely evil and give you cookies as a well done gift. I would call that running defense to embodyments of hate, murder and sadism. You have used far less to accuse me of parroting justifications for war crimes..... 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatforce Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 34 minutes ago, Sealven said: It's kind of disingenuous to claim Sigmar as a purely colonial power when many of the Stormcast were inhabitants of the Mortal Realms who were forced to flee from their homes by the forces of chaos or were killed trying to defend them. Yndrasta, Bastian, and Vandus spring to mind but I'm sure there were more. Is it really colonialism when you are fighting to take back your old home? Nope, it is resistance to colonialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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